more wholesale sports bs

BCFred said:
You've got a point CR! It's pretty clear who is responsible when reloading shells and it is plain silly to blame someone else for things one is reponsible for oneself. Lord knows there is enough information floating around various websites and in reloading books to look stuff up and make an informed choice, unless one is completely lazy or obtuse.
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Up yours.......i didnt come on here for a pissing match with you guys. #### :mad: Ive done my research, APPARENTLY i missed that part that said NOT ALL PRIMERS ARE THE SAME.
 
Maybe this will help in trying to explain things.....

When i was in my local sporting goods store asking about primers. The supplier asked the store owner what kind of primers did i want. My reply to the owner was "huh", I didnt know there was a difference. I told him that I have a .45 and a 9mm as well as a 38super. The supplier sent primers accordingly for me.

Now I know there is a difference. I will be looking into this with much more clarity now. I found a sight that im LEARNING now. I see that certain primers react better with different kinds of powders. Good to know. Im using Federal #100 small with W231 powder for my 9mm and 38super and Federal #150 large with W231 for my 45acp. Seems to work fine so far
 
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kokanee king said:
Yes and no......his supplier was selling a box of 1000 large/small pistol federal primers for $49 bux a box. Seemed steep at the time, but if there be a shortage THAT bad in Canada then .........DOH!!!! :(
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DOH!!!!:(

Seems that you need to learn a little about safe reloading before you #### on a salesmans for not making an alternate suggestion?

Ma and Pa operatins that use a Ma and Pa supplier often have small quantities when the larger stores are out and the Ma and Pa store usually has no problem getting small left over stuff shipped. Larger than Ma and Pa operations book their primers and other stuff in larger quantity to give the customer the best price. They usually get their product by the truck load, but unfortunatley when they are out, they are out and importing another truck loads takes time. When one brand is in short supply or out of stock, other brands soon follow.
 
ht tp://www.chuckhawks.com/primers.htm
CCI

* Small pistol = 500
* Small pistol magnum = 550
* Large pistol = 300
* Large pistol magnum = 350
* Small rifle = 400
* Small rifle magnum = 450
* Large rifle = 200
* Large rifle magnum = 250

Federal

* Small pistol = 100
* Small pistol magnum = 200
* Large pistol = 150
* Large pistol magnum = 155
* Small rifle = 205
* Small rifle magnum = 250M
* Large rifle = 210
* Large rifle magnum = 215

Remington

* Small pistol = 1 1/2
* Small pistol magnum = 5 1/2
* Large pistol = 2 1/2
* Small rifle = 6 1/2
* Small rifle magnum = 7 1/2
* Large rifle = 9 1/2
* Large rifle magnum = 9 1/2M

Winchester

* Small pistol = WSP
* Small pistol magnum = WSPM
* Large pistol = WLP
* Large pistol magnum = WLP
* Small rifle = WSR
* Large rifle = WLR
* Large rifle magnum = WLRM

RWS

* Small pistol = 4031
* Small pistol magnum = 4047
* Large pistol = 5337
* Small rifle = 4033
* Large rifle = 5341
* Large rifle magnum = 5333


Learned something new today that i failed to learn before. My apologies to all whom i got pissed off at :redface: Lots of valuable info on this website as well.
 
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kokanee king said:
I didnt know there was a difference. I told him that I have a .45 and a 9mm as well as a 38super. The supplier sent primers accordingly for me.

Now I know there is a difference. I will be looking into this with much more clarity now. I found a sight that im LEARNING now. I see that certain primers react better with different kinds of powders. Good to know. Im using Federal #100 small with W231 powder for my 9mm and 38super and Federal #150 large with W231 for my 45acp. Seems to work fine so far
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you need to get a reloading book at read it cover to cover..

there are different sizes (large small), different "levels" eg Magnum vs regular, and each manufacturer is different as well.. (hardness etc).

the short answer is .. don't take anyone's recommendation when it comes to reloading without double checking it, and reading up about it, and following the proper reloading methodology (eg working "up" a load) .. what works in "his gun" could very well blow up yours.. would you risk your life on it???
 
kokanee king said:
I never said it was the retailers fault :mad: The NOT offering an alternative brand of primers is where the burn comes from.
Im in the wholesale foods industry. If you dont have a certain product that the customer wants, you OFFER an item that is similar to what they want. If you dont, the repercussions are tremendous. Lost customer. Losing a customer is the easy part, getting them back is an uphill battle.
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Offering an alternate component in reloading is just the opposite and could result in a real loss. The salesman should do his best to get what the customer wants but should refrain from any recipe suggestions even if asked. Those who suggest reading or getting a manual are wise.
 
Covey Ridge said:
Offering an alternate component in reloading is just the opposite and could result in a real loss. The salesman should do his best to get what the customer wants but should refrain from any recipe suggestions even if asked. Those who suggest reading or getting a manual are wise.
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and again as i said up above in my previous posts that i apologize for getting into a pissing match with you peeps, but you want to keep hanging onto this thread with your input..........let it go. Ive learned my lesson and I HAVE found the info i so richly missed in my readings. WHEN I get into loading rifle rounds I will know to match powder, primer and bullet accordingly.

I think alot of you reloader gurus here have failed to read that im reloading for PISTOLS. Im neither a master shooter nor looking for precision bullseye on top of bullseye shots with each bullet coming out of my barrel. The W231 powder and Federal pistol primer combo im using now works fine and if i manage to get CCI primers, im going to use the same powder with those as well.
When i get into precision shooting so that i can shoot sub 1/4" shots at 1000yds in hurricane force winds, then i will be more concerned with what my primer, powder, bullet ratio is.
 
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Did your info happen to reveal which type(not brand) of primer is best suited for use with ball type powders such as W231? If not, time for more research...:D
dB
 
kokanee king peep,
Seems like there was not so much WSS bs as customer BS on your part? Your newbie perception of reality?
 
daBear said:
Did your info happen to reveal which type(not brand) of primer is best suited for use with ball type powders such as W231? If not, time for more research...:D
dB
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Some manuals have recommended somewhat hotter (read magnum) primers for some ball powders. As I recall, the Speer manual used to do this with some reloads. (Notice the "some".) I don't know how crucial this is, as back when I was testing such things, and chronographing things, I didn't find much difference. The only time I have ever experienced ignition problems of any kind has been with reduced loads in cast boolit situations. That is not to say such things cannot happen. Best approach, of course, is to chose a load from a reputable manual and stick with the recommended primer, case, bullet, powder. I have not experienced trouble with this approach ever, though sometimes max loads in a manual have proven to be somewhat toasty for a particular rifle.
W231 had a reputation of providing good results across a wide variety of bullet weights in various handguns. Interestingly Ed Matunas recommended using "Standard Small Pistol Primers" rather than "Magnum" in his article in "Propellant Profiles". He reiterates this by stating that using magnum primers is "...a waste of time and money...". According to him the powder ignites well because it doesn't have a deterrent coating. Not being a particularly experienced reloader for handguns, I would stick with this unless I found a newer manual that said otherwise.
 
Im done posting here. Covey Ridge it seems that you are an employee of WSS and as such are defending them. Fair enough. Dabear and BCfred, im just going to keep doing my research and will avoid posting ANYTHING on this site that is reloading related. Ive been brow beaten enough from you Covey Ridge that ive had enough.
 
kokanee king said:
WHEN I get into loading rifle rounds I will know to match powder, primer and bullet accordingly.

I think alot of you reloader gurus here have failed to read that im reloading for PISTOLS. Im neither a master shooter nor looking for precision bullseye on top of bullseye shots with each bullet coming out of my barrel. The W231 powder and Federal pistol primer combo im using now works fine and if i manage to get CCI primers, im going to use the same powder with those as well.
When i get into precision shooting so that i can shoot sub 1/4" shots at 1000yds in hurricane force winds, then i will be more concerned with what my primer, powder, bullet ratio is.
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kokanee king,

The advice about maintaining consistency of components is not only due to accuracy issues, it also has to do with potential differences in the maximum pressure that is generated when you fire off a round. Primers from different manufactures, and primers from the same manufacturer but in different lots, can vary in their burning intensity.

This can mean that one primer from Company A could ignite the powder faster/more thoroughly than the same type of primer from Company B. The more intense ignition would likely result in the Company A load having a pressure spike earlier and perhaps higher than the load from Company B.

The concern about reworking loads when changing primers (both between lots and between manufacturers), is really important regardless of rifle vs. pistol, and regardless of whether you're concerned about accuracy --- it is a safety issue. If you're working anywhere near the maximum load listed in a book, it is prudent to back down your load and work it up again whenever you make a change to any componnent (bullet, brass, or primer) or to your reloading setup (e.g., bullet seating depth).

Good luck with your reloading and welcome to the field, but please be safe and continue gathering as much info as you can and asking questions whenever you're concerned.
 
Thx BCF..I am well aware of the situation, but was merely trying to point out to KK that there are other considerations than just picking a spp primer and W231...:)
dB
 
At least WSS has the curteousy to leave reloading books on their counter for data gathering or just plain old information...I bet you wouldn't see that at any other gun store in the city? Unless of course you buy the book once the plastic has been removed from it.
 
kokanee king said:
Im done posting here. Covey Ridge it seems that you are an employee of WSS and as such are defending them. Fair enough. Dabear and BCfred, im just going to keep doing my research and will avoid posting ANYTHING on this site that is reloading related. Ive been brow beaten enough from you Covey Ridge that ive had enough.
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Some compaints against retail establishments are very legitimate. Your's was not. Your piling on was made worse by your lack of knowledge and failure to accept reasonable explanation. You just do not know better.
 
I ordered two guns and some 45-70 brass from them and it all arrived promptly. Their prices are better than SIR/Cabelas too since Cabelas got a little excited with upping their prices. I ordered a bunch of reloading stuff from them previously also and everything went OK.
 
Covey Ridge said:
Some compaints against retail establishments are very legitimate. Your's was not. Your piling on was made worse by your lack of knowledge and failure to accept reasonable explanation. You just do not know better.
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Yes im a noob and with the help of alot of guys on this thread, ive learned a thing or two from them. Your rantings on here taught me NOTHING. A few members who were voicing their knowledge of the situation to me also took the time to PM me with what I so richly was missing. I thank them for pointing me in the right direction and I have learned once again to think before I type. I know your going to throw a post up and ridicule me more on my lack of knowledge and whatever color the sky is in my world. Thats quite alright, go ahead fill your boots.

Darin
 
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