Most Abusable handgun
- Thread starter Ko_Sine
- Start date
+ 1 I am a big fan of the 1911. I run a 1942 1911A1 and I have shot over 10,000 rounds through mine. My gun is totally reliable if it is maintained and less reliable when it is rusting and carboned up. For the comments saying it is battle tested. They are right, but soldiers maintain their weapons , to as high a standard as conditions permit.
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It seems to me that there are more "exhaustive tests" out there then ###ually transmitted diseases - all with different final results. This can either lead one to think that the tests are flawed or 'your' test was more exhaustive or refined then 'my' test.
The same 5 or so handguns end up in the top of the heap. I don't believe there is a free and clear winner. Its like the best shooters, or the best sprinters, or the best hammers - and which one is the best. As long as you have a high quality design and manufacture, the win will go to anyone of the top performers depending on the day.
by the way - you can keep your Ruger semi-auto's at home.
If this testing and selection really was free of political influence (that would be a first!) and Sig and HK really did suit the needs/demands of the DHS...great! Good for them! Other organizations have different demands and different testing procedures when determining durability, ease of use, accuracy, etc...
But to be quite honest Sig, HK, Glock and S&W are all great guns. The fact that "X" gun won "Y"s competition doesn't really mean much to me, but I REALLY have to question the merit of the outcome when I can't see the details of the test.
Are you talking about the joint Department of Homeland Security/Immigration/Customs test in 2002?
Don't be such a bulls**tter, the test wasn't the most absolute test and it certainly isn't top-secret. Plus, they favoured the Sig DAK trigger which in my opinon ain't so hot and, I'm a big time Sig fan.
HK's ain't that reliable and anyone that argues a 1911 is more practical than a Glock is kidding themselves. If I'm going to hell and (hopefully) back it'll be with a Glock or a Sig.
Tim.
Ok timothydgordon,
Name a comprehensive pistol trial that was more absolute over the past few years?
The test results are Law Enforcement sensitve. Unless you are LE you cannot get official results (and you have to provide reasons / credentials ect...which must be cleared by Sig Sauer USA..ect..ect...I happen to know because I went through the process to obtain results.). There is much information out there about DHS testing and rumors as well. As in any US Gov. test there would likely be pressure to buy "American" (Translation...S&W...) but they choose two guns that are not American (although Sig Sauer USA has a US plant). The reasons for DHS wanting DAK triggers is a whole new topic, LE related, but the nuts and bolts of the test was durability, reliability and accuracy in a variety of climates / enviroments. They had the money to test dozens of guns from all that submitted and not just one or two random guns. Some may not like the results but there are people who still believe the world is flat.
I don't have the data on the French Gov. testing a few years back but they choose sig as well (Sig Pro this time, about 250000 units). The US Coast Gaurd also ran some testing (No where near the length or expense of DHS). They ended up with the Sig 229. I don't have data on their testing except for what I read in a gun magazine. Some times people base alot of their opinions on what they read in gun magazines which can be lacking.
Rich
PS, I still think Glock is one of the best toughest guns out there.
Name a comprehensive pistol trial that was more absolute over the past few years?
The test results are Law Enforcement sensitve. Unless you are LE you cannot get official results (and you have to provide reasons / credentials ect...which must be cleared by Sig Sauer USA..ect..ect...I happen to know because I went through the process to obtain results.). There is much information out there about DHS testing and rumors as well. As in any US Gov. test there would likely be pressure to buy "American" (Translation...S&W...) but they choose two guns that are not American (although Sig Sauer USA has a US plant). The reasons for DHS wanting DAK triggers is a whole new topic, LE related, but the nuts and bolts of the test was durability, reliability and accuracy in a variety of climates / enviroments. They had the money to test dozens of guns from all that submitted and not just one or two random guns. Some may not like the results but there are people who still believe the world is flat.
I don't have the data on the French Gov. testing a few years back but they choose sig as well (Sig Pro this time, about 250000 units). The US Coast Gaurd also ran some testing (No where near the length or expense of DHS). They ended up with the Sig 229. I don't have data on their testing except for what I read in a gun magazine. Some times people base alot of their opinions on what they read in gun magazines which can be lacking.
Rich
PS, I still think Glock is one of the best toughest guns out there.
I consider the life of a range gun here on our range to be symptomatic of a handgun's short hard life. Guns don't get cleaned as often as they should, they get dropped (more often than they should), and of course they fire alot of rounds and keep doing so until they are worn out.
It has been my experience that good quality 1911's, SIG's,HK's, and Glocks in that order perform the best over their lifecycle. Glocks are cheaper to fix, but they do not last near as long as the others on the list. The longest lasting guns I have on the range are Kimber 1911's and SIG P226's.
It has been my experience that good quality 1911's, SIG's,HK's, and Glocks in that order perform the best over their lifecycle. Glocks are cheaper to fix, but they do not last near as long as the others on the list. The longest lasting guns I have on the range are Kimber 1911's and SIG P226's.
Lets not forget that the Glock is usually the most sought after pistol to be shot and 45ACP is extremely expensive to shoot. I'm sure both of these factors play a role in determining which guns fail more often than others at the range.
TDC
TDC
Both public (gun rental) ranges I have been to recently hauled out the Sigs for shooting. Thats got to mean something.
My used Ruger MK1 came from a range gun replacement auction and it was estimated that over half a million rounds went down that bull barrel.
My two cents.
My used Ruger MK1 came from a range gun replacement auction and it was estimated that over half a million rounds went down that bull barrel.
My two cents.
TT-33
Costs up to $200, never cleaned. Over two cases of ammo (case = over 2,000) through with light barrel cleaning (couple times) and still going strong.
Exactly. I've personally fired just under a thousand rounds through a Glock and 600 rounds through a Sig 229. After the range session with each I did a quick field strip and a very basic cleaning (basically a few cotton swabs to clean powder/dirt out and away from the firing pin/firing pin channel, out of the rails, off the feeding ramp), a quick lube job on the rails, barrel hood and barrel. Somewhere around the 2k mark on the Glock I did the same cleaning and used a bore snake and the 1k mark on the Sig I did the same basic cleaning but again with a bore snake. Both pistols have seen about 3,500 rounds and as of yet to be given a "deep" cleaning/neither have been detail stripped. They both function flawlessly and perform at par when very dirty and very hot.
I know this isn't exactly a science/stress or torture test but I shoot these pistols regularily and know how they perform. I've shot a lot of handguns and I trust Glock and Sig the most.
Tim.
- Location
- BC, In a Van down by the river!
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
I don't get why anyone would think that the .45 auto is extremely expensive to shoot; its not. My .416 Rigby was extremely expensive to shoot, the .50 BMG is extremely expensive to shoot, but a .45 auto loaded with cast bullets and 7 grs of powder is quite affordable if you ask me.
Pretty sure TDC meant it was "extremely expensive to shoot" when compared to most other common handgun calibers.
I don't own a .45 but I try to keep an eye on local ammo prices, mostly b/c I shoot my friends guns and I don't like to be a sleazeball so I pay for my own ammo. .45 around here seems to be the most expensive of the common calibers and averages about $80-$100+ more per /1,000.
Would that stop me from choosing a 1911 if I really liked the gun? Nope...I own a 357sig, I know what expensive ammo is all about
- Location
- Port Perry/Toronto
Glocks are good for running dirty, but the life of a glock is less than a Sig or a CZ75.
I have seen CZ's FTF/FTE, but I have never seen a Sig 22X FTF/FTE. I've heard of it hapening in the breaking in process; some come with stiff springs, but after that they'll run forever.
I have seen CZ's FTF/FTE, but I have never seen a Sig 22X FTF/FTE. I've heard of it hapening in the breaking in process; some come with stiff springs, but after that they'll run forever.
