I recently got the x5 allround which i really like and would recommend too. I jumped on a last gen model (the new ones are a little too superfly for me) and got a great deal at CRAFM in Montreal. For pure accuracy though, i think the the p210 is probably a notch above. i know i will get one at some point.
Most accurate pistol?
- Thread starter jordanmalmal
- Start date
I recently got the x5 allround which i really like and would recommend too. I jumped on a last gen model (the new ones are a little too superfly for me) and got a great deal at CRAFM in Montreal. For pure accuracy though, i think the the p210 is probably a notch above. i know i will get one at some point.
Eventually I would like to shoot IDPA, But for now just learning the basics and getting used to something that is a tack driver is what I am looking for.
Generally the pistol's accuracy won't be the limiting factor unless you shoot rested and either have excellent eyesight or use a scope on the gun. For regular free standing and with "real" vision the shooter is generally the limiting factor even in classic bullseye shooting.
I suspect it's the whole "I normally shoot a rifle" thing and the inherent desire for absolute accuracy that is driving you. But unless you're nutzo over Olympic style bullseye style shooting and have the skill to do well in that arena then you won't see the difference between some fairly regular guns and the high priced stuff you're looking at.
Now after all this is said and done there's a few guns I've shot that made me look good. A S&W Model 19 I've got often achieves groups that make me smile at my "ability". So something like a nice condition 19 or perhaps the .38Spl only Model 14 would serve your needs well. In terms of semi autos my CZ Shadow does well for me when I'm not trying to pump out rounds very fast. And even when I do I tend to get a lot of -0's or Alphas with it depending on the match. I've also shot a few 1911's that made me look good. One which made me look "gooder" than the rest was an STI Rangemaster. A 6 inch barrel 1911'ish gun with a beautiful trigger right out of the box. I shot one of the tightest groups I've ever shot with it on the first magazine. And with the second mag I shot an even slightly smaller group.
But even while still glowing over my achievement the owner of the gun, and a long time bullseye shooter with some number of wins to his credit in the past, shot a group that made mine look like a sewer opening. Which leads me to think that even my other guns are capable of much better performance than I've gotten with them at my hands.
The moral of this story is before you spend a lot of money on a gun which can shoot crazy small groups be sure that you're a shooter that can match the ability of the gun you are shopping for.
I suspect it's the whole "I normally shoot a rifle" thing and the inherent desire for absolute accuracy that is driving you. But unless you're nutzo over Olympic style bullseye style shooting and have the skill to do well in that arena then you won't see the difference between some fairly regular guns and the high priced stuff you're looking at.
Now after all this is said and done there's a few guns I've shot that made me look good. A S&W Model 19 I've got often achieves groups that make me smile at my "ability". So something like a nice condition 19 or perhaps the .38Spl only Model 14 would serve your needs well. In terms of semi autos my CZ Shadow does well for me when I'm not trying to pump out rounds very fast. And even when I do I tend to get a lot of -0's or Alphas with it depending on the match. I've also shot a few 1911's that made me look good. One which made me look "gooder" than the rest was an STI Rangemaster. A 6 inch barrel 1911'ish gun with a beautiful trigger right out of the box. I shot one of the tightest groups I've ever shot with it on the first magazine. And with the second mag I shot an even slightly smaller group.
But even while still glowing over my achievement the owner of the gun, and a long time bullseye shooter with some number of wins to his credit in the past, shot a group that made mine look like a sewer opening. Which leads me to think that even my other guns are capable of much better performance than I've gotten with them at my hands.
The moral of this story is before you spend a lot of money on a gun which can shoot crazy small groups be sure that you're a shooter that can match the ability of the gun you are shopping for.
I am sincerely grateful for your honesty and knowledge! Thank you for the advice!
It would be nice to get to shoot an assortment of guns before I decide, but I don't have that luxury.
And I think that the opinions of probably some great shooters giving me advice on what they like can help me make a decision.
I have to agree with bcrider. Most modern pistols at 25 meters would make one jagged hole if shot from a vice, but I have yet to meet the shooter that can. They are out there but I have never seen a man that can truly shoot to the full potential of their pistol. If you have some cash to spend and want a tack driver, buy a 1000.00 gun (or less) and spend the rest on courses and ammo. Perhaps a g34 meets your needs well.
Thanks for the advice, I will keep it in mind.
Bingo! Perfectly said. I would say get a shadow that's all done up. You will never shoot near the ability of the gun...
Something like this...
These are MADE for (and only for) high, HIGH end target shooting, 1 hole groupings while shooting indoors kinda thing.
redshooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Central Ontario
If I had some cash to burn I'd blow it on a Glock G34 or a S&W M&P Pro with a 5" barrel. As BCRider stated the shooter is the limiting factor esp with handguns, my eyes suck now so my priorities would be durability and reliability. I'd probably go with the S&W because I already have four older gen autos and a new one would just look good sitting beside the others.
While it's being discussed, I've considered getting a Glock 22 or 35 and also getting a conversion barrel for 9mm (maybe 357 Sig too). Is there any problems with this approach?
While it's being discussed, I've considered getting a Glock 22 or 35 and also getting a conversion barrel for 9mm (maybe 357 Sig too). Is there any problems with this approach?
About the same as the 30-30 with a 150 grain or a 357 with a 200 grain bullet.
Aprilia Man
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Canadian "WET" Coast (Raincouver)
Best advice for the OP's inquiry
Sig 1911 for me and the damn thing can shoot more accurately than me
.....
- Location
- West Quebec
Nice post..
If you are going to shoot IDPA eventually you are limited to the type of pistol that is allowed. Do a little research. STI pistols have right in the specifications what shooting venue it is allowed to be used in. Go up and click on Freedom Ventures and check out the pistols. I prefer an STI Trojan in 45 acp or 9mm for IDPA or IPSC. 45 acp for when I can pick up my brass. 9mm for the times I can't.
IDPA does not allow bull barrel pistols, as far as I know.
IDPA does not allow bull barrel pistols, as far as I know.
I haven't shot all that many to compare but I did have an X-Five and now shoot a SIG P-210 which I prefer. My other actual experience was with my S&W 627 Performance Center V-Comp shooting .38 wad cutters in single action. That revolver was just short of $2k but was not as flexible for my purposes so the vote goes to the P-210 which also take the beauty pageants by a storm.
I will echo the caveats re IDPA. The X-Five is too heavy to qualify. My NHC 1911 is out of the running too because of its bull barrel.
I will echo the caveats re IDPA. The X-Five is too heavy to qualify. My NHC 1911 is out of the running too because of its bull barrel.
Looks like they are between 3-5k... I will have to do some research
3-5k?if u wanna this one with this serial number cost more than 25000!If u like I can find this one for u!for normal p210-8 cost more than 8k.
That is always a problem, isn't it. It's not so bad in areas where we enjoy one of the rare commercial rent-a-gun ranges. But I understand that there's nothing like that in Ontario.
If you're considering getting into one of the shooting sports then one way to get to try some guns is to buy a couple of boxes of ammo and attend one of the events as an observer and helper. Trust me, just show up for registration in the morning and indicate that you're interested, are willing to lend a hand for the day and that you're hoping to get some advice on the guns and gear as well as maybe try some of the guns. By being there, being interested and being willing to help with patching and scoring and even with the tear down at the end of the day I guarantee you'll have the guys all standing around pushing their guns into your hands to try. The ammo you bring is to offer to use or replace that of the gun owners. But more than likely they'll wave it off and tell you to save it for your own gun. But they WILL appreciate the offer.
If you do this at things like an IDPA, IPSC or even casual club meet you'll get to try a whole range of guns. At least this has been the case when I've been at events and a newbie shows up with the same sort of intrest and that hang around for the day or at least much of it. It'll also serve you as an introduction for the sort of events that can be enjoyed with a handgun or two and guide you as to the sort of gun you would like.
It may leave you with little to no experience with revolvers though. But you'll get a good grounding in the more popular semi autos. And as those of us with handguns know it's like popcorn. You can't shoot just one....
So eventually you'll get to try a couple of different revolvers.So where's this leave you for now? As you've seen in the replies any of the guns that are popular will easily shoot better than the big majority of shooters can manage. So it makes buying your first gun not so much finding one which is the most accurate as it does one which YOU can SHOOT the most accurately. Handguns are not like rifles in this way. With rifles if you're like many shooters you're used to shooting from a rest at the bench. Or you brace against a tree if hunting. The closest comparison between rifle and handgun shooting is the free standing shooting used in metallic silhouette events where there's no rest and no sling allowed.
One of the big things with handgun shooting is learning to avoid a flinch. From there the other biggie is learning to hold the gun with a steady sort of grip while moving ONLY the trigger finger. Both of these become somewhat problematic for many shooters. Your rifle shooting will help but with the rifle your shoulder takes the brunt of the recoil. With a handgun it's all in the hands. So even if you're a good rifle shooter for standing freestyle it doesn't automatically mean this will translate to your handgun shooting. It may, but don't take it for granted.
Glock, M&P, CZ, Sig, S&W, STI and Ruger are among the mainstream guns which I know shoot well. Most are pretty similar other than Glock which I find tends to have a fat grip and a slightly more swept back grip angle. You may not be able to shoot them but you can certainly hold a few in the stores. Try to find one which folds into your hands well and where you can feel even pressure reflected back into your grip from ALL around the gun's gripping area.
Some of the guns mentioned so far are a rung up the ladder better at producing tight groups. But the mainstream guns that are generally popular are still more than capable of producing 2 inch or better groups at 25 yards out if the shooter can hold them that well. Few can though. Which is the reason some of us are suggesting that you just get one of the basic mainstream guns for now. Simply put the vast majority of us can't and won't see the difference between shooting a basic CZ, Glock or M&P vs shooting one of the uber accurate Sig P210's. The difference in the two guns gets pretty much lost in the "noise" of our jiggly nerves and poor eyesight. If it turns out that you are Olympic Team Canada fodder you can always move up to the fancy target stuff later on. You may be looking at your FIRST handgun, but it most certainly will not be your LAST one.
To do this well check out this video for the popular two handed isosceles stance and grip. If you don't hold the gun correctly you won't know if it fits you well. With care you can shoot ANY handgun well. But the ones that fit you like a well broken in glove will make getting to that point a lot easier;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDZDttBfock
Finally if you can't bring yourself to buy a .22 as your first handgun then by all means by a 9mm. I say get a 9mm as it means you can buy more ammo and get more trigger time with the cheaper to feed 9mm than any other caliber. And more than with rifle skills shooting a handgun well is very much a perishable skill.
Among the .22 semi autos the two biggest and bestest performers are the Ruger Mk series and the Browning Buckmark. Both are very consistently accurate, popular and reliable. If you are looking at the Ruger option for a .22 I'd strongly suggest the 22/45 model that has the switchable grip scales. The basic MkIII is a fine gun but the Luger like swept back grip angle is more at home using a one handed side on bullseye stance than it is for two handed action shooting. Which is fine but as a trainer for a center fire gun you are better off for now sticking to a similar grip angle as you'll use later on. And both the 22/45 model and the Buckmarks share that angle. The cheaper one piece frame 22/45 with no way to add grip scales is just too skinny. I'm not sure who they are supposed to fit as they don't fit anyone's hands well that I've ever seen.
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Excellent post Mr. BC; you covered the ground very well. If you live in Southern Ontario, Mr. OP, I suggest that you visit Waterford on Monday nights when we hold our IPSC practice sessions. That's where I got my start. The members are quick to loan guns and on a good night you will get to try several of the more commonly used models. I suggest you take notes on how you made out with each of them. PM me for contacts if you like.
I always suggest that new shooters look ahead a bit in terms of what they would like to do in the shooting sports. IPSC has certain equipment requirements as does IDPA and they are different. If for example, you would like to get your Black Badge in IPSC, there is a list of "approved" guns for the most popular "Production Division". IDPA has weight and other restrictions on barrel types that aren't an issue in IPSC.
Do take note that there are other expenses beside the firearm with ammo being the biggest one. 9mm is a lot less expensive to shoot in volume than .45 ACP. Then there are holsters, eye and ear protection, magazines and magazine pouches as well as a belt. If you go to a place like Waterford, you will see what most shooters use for IPSC and get a good handle on cost. I was lucky to have been able to attach myself to a small collection of mentors which helped a lot. Clubs always have a few shooters that really like to play that role with new shooters.
Opinions in the shooting world are many and varied. You will find that certain guns are both widely popular and equally detested. However, in games like IPSC Production, certain models like the CZ line are very popular for good reasons. If you were to choose one of the most popular guns in 9mm you wouldn't go too far wrong.
My best advice is to make having fun the priority and to get started. It's a great hobby with a lot of fine people. You will enjoy both!
Gord
I always suggest that new shooters look ahead a bit in terms of what they would like to do in the shooting sports. IPSC has certain equipment requirements as does IDPA and they are different. If for example, you would like to get your Black Badge in IPSC, there is a list of "approved" guns for the most popular "Production Division". IDPA has weight and other restrictions on barrel types that aren't an issue in IPSC.
Do take note that there are other expenses beside the firearm with ammo being the biggest one. 9mm is a lot less expensive to shoot in volume than .45 ACP. Then there are holsters, eye and ear protection, magazines and magazine pouches as well as a belt. If you go to a place like Waterford, you will see what most shooters use for IPSC and get a good handle on cost. I was lucky to have been able to attach myself to a small collection of mentors which helped a lot. Clubs always have a few shooters that really like to play that role with new shooters.
Opinions in the shooting world are many and varied. You will find that certain guns are both widely popular and equally detested. However, in games like IPSC Production, certain models like the CZ line are very popular for good reasons. If you were to choose one of the most popular guns in 9mm you wouldn't go too far wrong.
My best advice is to make having fun the priority and to get started. It's a great hobby with a lot of fine people. You will enjoy both!
Gord
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