Most overrated rifle

heronfish said:
When you consider a marlin can do everything a winchester can, can easily be scoped and costs half of a winchester, that's my thoughts that it is over rated
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So is your argument that only 120 years after it is initial design Winchester 94 is now "lagging behind"? Win 94 had angled ejection and drilled and tapped receiver for standard scope mount for decades. Or you would like to take 80+ old metal scrap Win 94 and compare it to modern Marlin with pic rail, fiber optics, m-lok forend? Does tube magazine has issues with modern ammo - yes. Does Win 94 have front grip, flash cups, arca rail and flash light - no.

But it does not matter. Win 94 was the best at the time it was done. For the purpose IT WAS DESIGNED it is still an amazingly good. It was Marlin who had to figure out how to get around the patents on locking block extending out of the receiver and internal pivot and all that. Not the other way around. Marlin 336 has been designed 50 years AFTER Win 94. 1894 - Wright brothers didn't fly yet. 1948 - nuclear weapons exist. Think about that span of time before you say Win 94 is overrated because Marlin in 2020 comes with rail on top.
 
I don't think the Winchester 94's are over rated, unless someone wants to argue that they are better then the more modern and advanced Marlin 336.

As long as the Winchester 94 fan z's can at least admit that the Marlin is an improvement in a few different ways..... then the 94 is not over rated.

I like them both but prefer the Marlin's for a few reasons that are easy to understand if you have owned both and have an open mind.... that said preference is a personal thing and so far we are still living in a relatively free country where other people don't tell us what to buy or like.... at least not with lever actions..... yet.
 
owlowl said:
So is your argument that only 120 years after it is initial design Winchester 94 is now "lagging behind"? Win 94 had angled ejection and drilled and tapped receiver for standard scope mount for decades. Or you would like to take 80+ old metal scrap Win 94 and compare it to modern Marlin with pic rail, fiber optics, m-lok forend? Does tube magazine has issues with modern ammo - yes. Does Win 94 have front grip, flash cups, arca rail and flash light - no.

But it does not matter. Win 94 was the best at the time it was done. For the purpose IT WAS DESIGNED it is still an amazingly good. It was Marlin who had to figure out how to get around the patents on locking block extending out of the receiver and internal pivot and all that. Not the other way around. Marlin 336 has been designed 50 years AFTER Win 94. 1894 - Wright brothers didn't fly yet. 1948 - nuclear weapons exist. Think about that span of time before you say Win 94 is overrated because Marlin in 2020 comes with rail on top.
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Given that marlin and Winchester came out with lever guns at roughly the same time period, I am not sure what you are getting at.
Take a 50s to 60s era marlin compared to the same Winchester. The Winchester costs double but isn't twice the gun.
And thats without discussing post 64 Winchester garbage that only recently changed.

It's over rated because many consider it gods gift to gun owners. It ain't.
 
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My point was that 94 is older than 336 by 50 years. Moreover an argument that 94 which didn't change much is comparable with 2020 production 336 with tactical bells and whistles is not reasonable.

"Overrated" is pretty charged word and I don't think is the same as "good purchase value as of 2021 mindset and availability", especially for the first ever commercial smokeless rifle from 19th century. It is not like people are lining up to buy Win 94 and get totally disappointed. It is what it is, it is very known, very common, very old school but it is very good at what you expect it to be.

By the time 64 fiasco happened with cost cutting, model 94 was already in production for 70(!) years. And it was fine rifle sold in millions. In this light term "overrated" is very odd, compared to wave of junk plastic discounted rifles we have coming right now with models changing every 2-3 years to keep up with a hype. Look how compact and well done clockwork is in Win 94 and compare with Savage impulse, Merkel Helix, Strasser RS-14, Browning Maral or whatever else they come up in 21st century as innovative.
 
owlowl said:
My point was that 94 is older than 336 by 50 years. Moreover an argument that 94 which didn't change much is comparable with 2020 production 336 with tactical bells and whistles is not reasonable.
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It's not the bells and whistles of the modern variations... most people that like the marlins, prefer the older Marlins .

It's a way smoother and simpler action, easy to work on and deep clean, and if your eyes are suffering easier to mount a low powered optic.

The angle ejection models sort of addressed that but some of the safety stuff they added on the later Winchesters and the way you have to hold the lever up on some of the guns is annoying.

I like them both but if I had to pick a winner it would be the Marlin as I also prefer the feel of the pistol grip while shooting over the straight wrist of the Winchester.... the Winchester does look more "cowboy" and I can understand why some might be drawn to it's iconic form.... but the Marlin design is more practical and feels better to me.

I didn't always feel this way but it's where I ended up.
 
In my opinion two rifles that are over rated or should I say over priced are the win94/22 and the marlin 39.Both guns are good lever 22s but the price people are asking for these especially well used pieces is ridiculous.I have owned a few and I liked them but they are no where the price a lot people want for them since they are really not that rare of a gun to find
 
I have a few overrated rifles on my list:

Remington Mohawk 600. It was the economy rifle in its day. Remington's SPS for a previous generation. It is not a bad rifle, maybe a bit club-like, but I simply can't get my head around seeing them listed for more than what they were worth when they were new off the shelf.

Husqvarna centerfire bolts. There is a huge variety out there ranging from the 1600, the Crown Grade 3000, to the 9000. Not bad rifles but way too much hype about their quality. I have a 3000 with the Mauser claw. Nice rifle. Took a few deer and moose with it as a kid but nothing special.

Howa actions. Sorry, I just really do not like them. I was baffled when Nosler got in bed with them to start cranking out rifles.

Tikka. I like the old Tikka 495 and 695 rifles but the current variations are overpriced junk. Tikka took a huge step back after they left their earlier models. They are light and they tend to have good barrels but it is far from quality craftsmanship. The latest Arctic Ranger model adds to the disappointment from this brand. It is fugly and ridiculously overpriced. I can't help but laugh when I see one on the firing line at the range.

Savage. Another WalMart gun. They just look so junky to me. I hate their triggers and bolts.
 
Tikkas looked just right in thier older model 55 & 65.(695)
Thier current models leave me meh. All big companies are at the whim of shareholders. Want to make thier bucket of gold then sell to junior partners to make thier bucket of silver. It's an age old circle to corporate greed and cutting corners to maximize profit.
 
Nobody heard of tikka with their older models. The t3 has the right stuff, although that does not appear to include craftsmanship. I don’t know how much craftsmanship is involved in the making of a t3 but it appears to be zero. Which is why such a well made rifle is available today at a popular price
 
Well, not many new rifle models - including a big bunch of "higher end" stuff - involves the craftmanship of fitting, which needed a long apprenticeship... Now, as long as you know how to program and / or operate a CNC machine, you're good to go. A lot of experience have been lost in the world of guns since the last 50 years...
 
chasseur said:
In my opinion two rifles that are over rated or should I say over priced are the win94/22 and the marlin 39.Both guns are good lever 22s but the price people are asking for these especially well used pieces is ridiculous.I have owned a few and I liked them but they are no where the price a lot people want for them since they are really not that rare of a gun to find
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I payed 950 dollars for my 39. I would pay more but thankfully they show up regular enough I didn’t have to.
 
porpoise said:
Nobody heard of tikka with their older models. The t3 has the right stuff, although that does not appear to include craftsmanship. I don’t know how much craftsmanship is involved in the making of a t3 but it appears to be zero. Which is why such a well made rifle is available today at a popular price
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Well. It's kind of telling that thier 222/223 rifles use the same action length as 308. Same as a 28 gauge shotgun on a 12 gauge frame. Meh.
 
I've looked at this thread off and on, started a reply but stepped back. This isn't an easy question for judgement to be passed requires total objectivity presiding over identified criteria... as it is, and even with strict criteria judgement will clouded on account of the fanboy clubs and directly by the fanboys.

Far as I can tell a rifle can only be considered over-rated if: #1 it is overpriced for what it is, (ie. manufacturer riding around on it's own coat tails) #2 doesn't measure up to what it is intended for (accuracy, ruggedness...), #3 it has garnered a cult following for no objective or practical reason, #4 it struggles to or won't endure the test of time, #5 is in any way a plagiarism of a past model, #6 and it will be over-rated if it is manufactured to appeal too that group alluded to in #3 or is in any way made to establish such groups.

I can't think of any that 100% make the cut intended by the thread, though I do have partial nominees and models I'm not particularly fond of. If I had to pick one, Mosin "garbage rod" kind of takes the prize only because it has spiked in cost beyond what it's worth. Most other contenders have adequate pros along with the cons like Ruger's very loose m77. Not to denegrate the model as it's not bad, but even the later MkII full Paul Mauser actions are too loose which is troubling since Brno's early ZKK wasn't so plagued nor was the later CZ550... (for what small price difference) for the guy who sprays and prays (panics) he might be binding that bolt: putting it that way does suggest the sloppy spec could be a virtue. ;) Give him a 94 and maybe a couple times cutting up his knuckles, he'll think more on his first shot. :) I like the T3 but I dislike the short action 222 being set in a 338wm action. I found that to adversely affect feeding of rounds smaller than .470" rim. Very good rifle otherwise. It really is rooting around the bottom of the barrel for conclusive reasons.

These rules generally apply to cartridges also though I have left that out of the equation lest my irritation (over rifles primarily being manufactured in the new crop of chamberings that contradict #5 and #6 and hopefully soon arrive at #4) derail or generally complicate the thread.
 
I would get the 1600's being overated for 2 things, the brutal triggers, and stock cracking, but those are easily fixed.
You don't find CRF actions that light, that tight, and smooth that feed like push feeds, they are worth it for that.
The Howa/Vanguard are a great value for the price, forged receiver, one piece bolt, hammer forged barrels, good 2 stage triggers, but they are a heavy action, and the mini version has terrible mags. I like them in long action heavy kickers, not so much in a short action, just too heavy.
 
New Camper. Are you a cowboy action shooter?
Because I have never bloodied my knuckles on any lever rifle at the rifle range or hunting. Be it 45-70 Marlin, Winchester M94 30-30, M94 Trapper 44 Mag, M94 in 356, Marlin 336 30-30, or BLR.
I wonder if others have the same issue as yourself or otherwise?

Curious
 
Baribal said:
Well, not many new rifle models - including a big bunch of "higher end" stuff - involves the craftmanship of fitting, which needed a long apprenticeship... Now, as long as you know how to program and / or operate a CNC machine, you're good to go. A lot of experience have been lost in the world of guns since the last 50 years...
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very true wisdom and sad reality.
 
Brutus said:
New Camper. Are you a cowboy action shooter?
Because I have never bloodied my knuckles on any lever rifle at the rifle range or hunting. Be it 45-70 Marlin, Winchester M94 30-30, M94 Trapper 44 Mag, M94 in 356, Marlin 336 30-30, or BLR.
I wonder if others have the same issue as yourself or otherwise?

Curious
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No, very rarely do I have the impulse to rapidly fling lead. I just have big hands. Have a friend with hands smaller than mine that loathes the M94 for that reason. Personally I've only drawn blood once with a lever (scratch really) so I still like them and use even the straight, small loop models. Funny I have a Henry youth 22 and equally funny I look holding it: I enjoy shooting with it though unless a lever rifle has a bent or large loop I still rely on cognitively flexing (second nature now) properly to cycle the action. I bloody my knuckles shooting J-frame revolvers... one large reason I pass on those and some guns.

As to your last question: from the few stories I have heard, the only thing I can conclude is that anyone of normal stature busting their knuckles must be on account of not thinking about correct cycling of the action and practicing... like one should normally do with any action he expects to eventually do sub-consciously.
 
Brutus said:
New Camper. Are you a cowboy action shooter?
Because I have never bloodied my knuckles on any lever rifle at the rifle range or hunting. Be it 45-70 Marlin, Winchester M94 30-30, M94 Trapper 44 Mag, M94 in 356, Marlin 336 30-30, or BLR.
I wonder if others have the same issue as yourself or otherwise?

Curious
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never had but as of today like a lot the big loop.
 
Amazed that no one mentioned the Lee-Enfield .303....not that I am doing it...just amazed that no one else did.
 
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