Most reliable action/shotgun
- Thread starter roadwarrior
- Start date
With the exception of the ES100, Beretta semi-auto shotguns are gas operated. The Benellis are inertia operated. The reliability of any semi-auto degrades if you don't keep it clean and lubricated.roadwarrior said:
If by extreme weather you mean cold then that adds another dimension. Certain types of shotgun powders and wads don't react to cold weather well. It's not unusual for shells to have lower velocities meaning less power to work the action.
In rough conditions the most reliable gun is a pump. In my experience, the most reliable of the pump guns is the Remington 870. Although the argument for a double with two triggers is also a good one.
With all the talk lately of Remington Quality (ejecting 3 1/2" shells etc.) I would stick with double barrel double trigger.Pumps have a lot of moving parts. If we were talking a Mod. 31 Rem. that would be a different story.Claybuster said:
roadwarrior said:
Sounds like a whole lot of great designs, alright. But I find myself re-reading the original question and thinking,"If it ain't proven, it's speculation based on perceived performance to date."
What I mean by that is that there are few models that have ever sold in sufficient numbers to be statistically relevant and that are old enough to claim proven reliabilty. Nothing taken away from the 870 or the model 12, because I personally believe they will take their rightful place in the history of the trade. Still, only the classic break guns (whether single of double) and the 1897 have been there since the beginning and can be considered proven (relative to all others). And, it wouldn't be too hard to argue that the 1897 doesn't have the track record of certain sidelocks, either.
If Roadwarrior's original question is the yardstick, I'd say the London SXS sidelock is proven to be the pinnacle "of durability, reliability and ruggedness in all types of weather and applications combined", with a pretty impressive list of close contenders who may prove to be as worthy or even better.
SS
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
This thread shows how peoples different life experiences effect their decisions.
When I chose a shotgun that I would to stake my life on, I did not make a quick or rash decision, nor did I put a ceiling on cost. I am not enamoured with break open guns, so my choice was between the auto and pump actions.
The auto has the advantage of never short stroking, but I've been around guns long enough that I am confident that even when under stress I'd pull the slide completely to the rear. Then it came down to a choice between the 870 and the 590.
The 870 has been used by the majority of North American police departments, and by branches of many countries military. The 590 was touted for being the only shotgun to pass the last US military selection trials. Perhaps that should not be taken too seriously though as they also chose the Beretta 92.
In the end I chose the 590. Why? The deciding factor was the ejector. The ejector of the 870 is riveted in, while the 590's is held by a screw which I can change without sending the gun out. I have enough spare parts, including a complete trigger group, so there is nothing that can break on this gun that I cannot quickly replace and have the gun back in service.
To anyone who doesn't think a Mossberg can slick up, if I hold the gun vertically with the action cocked, when I hit the release, a little bump is all that is necessary to bring the action completely to the rear. Not bad at all for a Mossy.
When I chose a shotgun that I would to stake my life on, I did not make a quick or rash decision, nor did I put a ceiling on cost. I am not enamoured with break open guns, so my choice was between the auto and pump actions.
The auto has the advantage of never short stroking, but I've been around guns long enough that I am confident that even when under stress I'd pull the slide completely to the rear. Then it came down to a choice between the 870 and the 590.
The 870 has been used by the majority of North American police departments, and by branches of many countries military. The 590 was touted for being the only shotgun to pass the last US military selection trials. Perhaps that should not be taken too seriously though as they also chose the Beretta 92.
In the end I chose the 590. Why? The deciding factor was the ejector. The ejector of the 870 is riveted in, while the 590's is held by a screw which I can change without sending the gun out. I have enough spare parts, including a complete trigger group, so there is nothing that can break on this gun that I cannot quickly replace and have the gun back in service.
To anyone who doesn't think a Mossberg can slick up, if I hold the gun vertically with the action cocked, when I hit the release, a little bump is all that is necessary to bring the action completely to the rear. Not bad at all for a Mossy.
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While the London sidelock has been around longer it loses on the statistical front when it comes to numbers. The total number of London sidelocks from all makers doesn't match even a fraction of the number of Remington 870s which is 6 million and counting.straightshooter said:
There is also the nature of the gun's use. Hard use guns get used hard and taken to rough places. Certainly there are exceptions but I doubt the average English sidelock gets used as hard as the average 870. Also part of the sidelocks regime is a regular stripping and cleaning if you want to keep it running properly.
If I had to choose a sxs I'd rather have a good, twin-trigger, boxlock non-ejector than a sidelock.
popcan said:
I have owned several high end singles, Perazzi's, Ljutic, BT 99's and a couple others, as well as doubles, pumps and autos , but my vote for a survival gun would be one of those cheapo singles. Cheap enough so I would have no fear for their welfare or need to baby them and leave behind when they may be needed. Not enough parts to worry about, especially if you start your survival experience with one that is not broken in the first place. Mine are old Cooey's and at the time cost me way less than $149.00. Easy for one hand carry, just like an old lever! Pumps work fine, but too many moving parts! Autos have even more moving parts! Higher end double also have more parts and one might worry more about their survival than your own. My second choice would be a non selective double with two triggers!
Very interesting comments guys. I have an other question: in average do sxs have tougher mechanical devices than o/o? Generally, are there major design differances in the trigger assembly that can effect ruggedness?
Also, to be honnest, my first vote was for an el-cheapo single shot, but I really like the idea of having a redundant system like the double triggers...
Also, to be honnest, my first vote was for an el-cheapo single shot, but I really like the idea of having a redundant system like the double triggers...
So far my Maverick 88 has served me well aside for a few logistical moments of trying unsuccessfully to quietly unload the grouse shot in exchange for buck shot in front of two deer that stepped out of the bush in front of me 15 feet away. 
With a single shot break action I would have had a deer that day.
But that is more about me being caught off guard, and being in a hunt two things at once mood.
If I had to have one shotgun, I'd probably go for one of the good old Mossberg 12 gauge bolt actions, with their rifle stocks, detachable 3 shot mags, and the Poly choke.
http://home.epix.net/~damguy/index-shotgun.html
With a single shot break action I would have had a deer that day.
But that is more about me being caught off guard, and being in a hunt two things at once mood.
If I had to have one shotgun, I'd probably go for one of the good old Mossberg 12 gauge bolt actions, with their rifle stocks, detachable 3 shot mags, and the Poly choke.
http://home.epix.net/~damguy/index-shotgun.html
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I have to go with the remington 870, fired over 30,000 rds before i had any minor problems. no majors yet!Claybuster said:
All true, Claybuster. My point wasn't that sidelocks are better than boxlocks (or pumps, or bolt actions, etc., etc.). What I was trying to say in my usual clumsy way was that there are numerous "all stars", but fewer "hall of famers" - not because they won't all end in the Hall of Fame together, but because, like in the sports analogy, you don't get inducted until you've paid the price (proven reliability)and done your time (lasted a century or more).
There are several rock solid guns out there. If only one can be chosen, the Winchester 1897 would be it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_1897
No shotgun has exceeded the service record of the 1897, having figured prominently in both World Wars, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War. Slam firing rounds as fast as you can cycle the action, to the point where a heat shield is required to protect the shooter, is as grueling a trial by fire as any shotgun has endured.
The mighty German Army petitioned the court at the Hague to declare the 1897 a banned weapon because they said it was cruel and inhuman. This in a war where mustard gas was a daily event
I'll give the 870 it's due, it's a damn good gun, but not on the basis of numbers sold. McDonalds sells billions of burgers and that still doesn't make them good food IMO. The Remington 870, Winchesters Model 12, and Browning's Superposed will join certain sidelocks & boxlocks, and the 1897 in the hall of fame when they have delivered reliable service for a century or more. And, we've got front row seats 'cause we get to put them through some of that service.
257Roberts
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Peterborough ON
My limited experience with shotguns has told me that the single shot is the most reliable. I have had shells and the actions freeze shut on me with my pump and have seen cases that semi autos have failed to eject when the weather turned cold, but I have yet to have an issue with my old Cooey in any weather conditions. I mostly use a shotgun for deer hunting and when the weather is undesirable I will grab one of my singles and head for the bush. And if it gets a scratch, that just adds character.
That’s my experience
257 Roberts
That’s my experience
257 Roberts
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Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Ithaca M37......your choice of bore and barrel.
No plastic, no aluminum, my opinion only.
Closely followed by 870...yes I am a lefty......because Remington is the only US firearms maker, that successfully cost cut repeater production, without leaving a steel receiver shotgun.
No plastic, no aluminum, my opinion only.
Closely followed by 870...yes I am a lefty......because Remington is the only US firearms maker, that successfully cost cut repeater production, without leaving a steel receiver shotgun.
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