Mountain Rifle with Grizzly capability..your thoughts?
- Thread starter BCBAIRDO
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bear spray we call them over here bear seasoning ... but to each is own ...
a 270 win or wsm will work even if I prefer something bigger where I come from the mini bear caliber is the 7x64 with a 170 grains bullet the European 280, so why not a light rifle in 7mm wsm with some 175 grains just in case ...?
a 308win with a real short action can do the trick of course ...
a 270 win or wsm will work even if I prefer something bigger where I come from the mini bear caliber is the 7x64 with a 170 grains bullet the European 280, so why not a light rifle in 7mm wsm with some 175 grains just in case ...?
a 308win with a real short action can do the trick of course ...
Bigfoot 870
CGN frequent flyer
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Hunting bear or defending against one; I doubt that any experienced grizz guide would recommend a .270, .280, .308 or .30-06 for one, regardless of the ammo. There's a line to draw, based on what you are hunting, vs what might hunt you. If there's a chance of an attack, plan ahead, and carry enough gun. Unless you are Shirley McLean, you will only live once
The bearnoia of inexperienced mountain hunters isn't too surprising but at the end of the day, your chances of surviving a bear attack substantially increases with bear spray vs a rifle. Unless you make an instantly fatal shot, a rifle wound will escalate the attack but bear spray will diffuse the attack. Bear spray brings down the aggression level of the bear, does not require great accuracy and is easily carried for accessibility.
If I were specifically hunting grizz or following up a wounded bear, then the nod goes to my .338WM for sure but for a mountain rifle for sheep, I'll choose a light recoil cartridge every time that I'm comfortable shooting prone and rely on the bear spray on my hip in the rare encounter with a bear. Playing Rambo with a bear in close will likely get you killed. Using bear spray will let allow you to hunt another day. Read some of the studies out of Alaska if you are skeptical....they all come to the same conclusion when measuring the effectiveness of bear spray vs a firearm in chance encounters.
If I were specifically hunting grizz or following up a wounded bear, then the nod goes to my .338WM for sure but for a mountain rifle for sheep, I'll choose a light recoil cartridge every time that I'm comfortable shooting prone and rely on the bear spray on my hip in the rare encounter with a bear. Playing Rambo with a bear in close will likely get you killed. Using bear spray will let allow you to hunt another day. Read some of the studies out of Alaska if you are skeptical....they all come to the same conclusion when measuring the effectiveness of bear spray vs a firearm in chance encounters.
Never thought about sleeping.
Bear spray, a good choice when travelling the mountains. But, really not that great a choice once you get drawn for griz.
If you are looking for a sheep AND griz rifle, a 700 mountain in 30-06 would be my choice. If there is such a thing as sheep and griz rifle.
Use good quality mm bullets in 165 grain.
JMHO.
If you are looking for a sheep AND griz rifle, a 700 mountain in 30-06 would be my choice. If there is such a thing as sheep and griz rifle.
Use good quality mm bullets in 165 grain.
JMHO.
sheephunter,
the studies made by the COs over here in Yukon ( not in Alaska) are always the same bear spray is not working with our bears ... once sprayed they're coming with a bad mood, the second time they don't even giving up ground ...
im not experienced as a lot over here but I know what i'm doing while camping or hunting to each his own ...
do you want to see so close encounter pictures over here?
I ve a lot and never had a bear spray ... don't rely on them.
nor NWT, NU and YU env offices recommend a bear spray while in the bush but a 30-06 rifle when you're proficient, yes they recommend it maybe for a reason ....
the studies made by the COs over here in Yukon ( not in Alaska) are always the same bear spray is not working with our bears ... once sprayed they're coming with a bad mood, the second time they don't even giving up ground ...
im not experienced as a lot over here but I know what i'm doing while camping or hunting to each his own ...
do you want to see so close encounter pictures over here?
I ve a lot and never had a bear spray ... don't rely on them.
nor NWT, NU and YU env offices recommend a bear spray while in the bush but a 30-06 rifle when you're proficient, yes they recommend it maybe for a reason ....
_________________________
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com
Anyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
on the bears you're making a big mystake TJ : an Alaskan or BC coast brown bear, a Kodiak or an interior mountain grizzly don't have the same behavior at all nor the same diet but that s another story....
I rely on what the guys working with them on daily basis tell me not what the bookwriters do as a living.
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com
Anyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
on the bears you're making a big mystake TJ : an Alaskan or BC coast brown bear, a Kodiak or an interior mountain grizzly don't have the same behavior at all nor the same diet but that s another story....
I rely on what the guys working with them on daily basis tell me not what the bookwriters do as a living.
browning makes a womans light weight rifle in 308 win it's more then enough for a grizzly bear it comes in around 6lbs It has a good kick for a rifle but it's a handy rifle for lugging up a mountain.
You don't need a super powerful rifle to get the job done most can do just fine. With bears they have a slow heart rate so even the biggest round you can hit them with might not stop them that's the risk when bear hunting.
You don't need a super powerful rifle to get the job done most can do just fine. With bears they have a slow heart rate so even the biggest round you can hit them with might not stop them that's the risk when bear hunting.
Anyone here every used bear spray on a bear? I sprayed a coyote once with half a can and he looked at me, rubbed his eyes, looked at me again, walked into the bush and rubbed his eyes some more then walked back to me and laid down. So I sprayed him with the rest of the rest of the can and rushed him.Then he wandered away but not very far.
I've concluded that the "studies" were done either by people who were cheering for the bears or maybe the actual bears themselves. The same people who constructed "bear kits" with bear bangers that are excellent for making bears run toward you, packaged it with an air-horn and told us to keep them in our trucks. Like I need a bear kit if I can get in my truck.
In a related note, don't take a piss after using bear spray without washing your hands first. Write that down, its important.
Somehow they forgot that part in the course, but what do you expect from a bunch of bears?
Then he wandered away but not very far.I've concluded that the "studies" were done either by people who were cheering for the bears or maybe the actual bears themselves. The same people who constructed "bear kits" with bear bangers that are excellent for making bears run toward you, packaged it with an air-horn and told us to keep them in our trucks. Like I need a bear kit if I can get in my truck.
In a related note, don't take a piss after using bear spray without washing your hands first. Write that down, its important.
Somehow they forgot that part in the course, but what do you expect from a bunch of bears?
I've used it a couple times......I spend 100 or more days a year in grizzly country. I don't feel under-armed at all with a canister of bear spray and no rifle. If a bear runs toward you after using a whistler or banger, you don't know how to use it. Do what you are comfortable with but talking about things you are not experienced with and saying it doesn't work isn't helping anyone here.
One of our guys got killed by a black bear on a jobsite, perhaps wishing someone had a rifle. Since he was a hunter I would think it likely. I wonder if that was his last thought or if he thought of his wife and kids as everything went black?
Lots of guys killed by bears when they had rifles in their hands...I suspect their thoughts were of their families too. Human mortality by bears can never be 100% eliminated but if you look at your odds of survival in a bear encounter, your odds substantially increase with bear spray vs a rifle, especially when it involves grizzly bears.
When push comes to shove, I would be far more worried about an aggressive black bear than a grizzly. Grizzlies are notoriously near sighted and a lot of them get shot charging. I am in no way telling you to take the chance the charge isn't a bluff by the way but by far, the vast majority of those charges are just that. I don't know why they get aroused to charge. Maybe curiosity, maybe we look like a bear standing? Who really knows.
I've been charged by Grizzlies and only in one case did I have to shoot it. I doubt bear spray would have stopped this animal. I have a tried and true method. If I notice what seems to be an aggressive bear moving in my direction, I pick a spot that I think it will cross through on its way to me and place the cross hairs of the scope on it. If I see hair in the scope, I am already in position for a quick, accurate enough shot to at the very least stop it, knock it down or turn it around.
By the way, I seem to attract bears. Brown bears, Black bears, Grizzly bears even Blonde Phase black bears. I see bears of one sort or another every time I'm out fishing or hunting. About ten years ago, I was coming back from building a blind on the edge of the High Tension Hydro line right of way. I didn't bring a firearm with me as I had about 20 pounds of hand tools and other stuff with me. This darned 5 foot black bear started to follow me. I had an axe and a sledge hammer but I'll tell you right now, you only have one split second chance to get it right.
I ended up picking up a 4 foot long, dead Mtn Maple butt about 3 inches in diameter. This gave me something I could easily control and use as a ram or swing like a club. I ended up whacking the black across its nose. I was scared as hell, once it got that close. I hit it with everything I had. There was a nasty, loud crunch and a squirt of blood. That poor bear bawled like he had been scared out of his wits. He gave a snort of blood, turned around and ran. That's about as excited and scared as I've had the privilege to be.
Funny thing, all the while the bear was following me, it never once growled, raised its back hair or made any aggressive moves. It just kept getting closer and closer. It stopped once to sniff the air but that was it. Maybe it was just curious??? Those scientists in Alaska that were studying and living with black bears and felt they were part of the family, until they were invited as the main course for lunch. When wild bears get to familiar or close, time to do something about it.
I shoot at least two per year. We really like the meat and there is nothing better than a corn silage fed bear around the middle of April. They've had time to clean out their systems and bulk up a bit on the silage. Marinated from the inside out. Farmers and Ranchers hate them for that. They make a hell of a mess of the silage pits and when they get to that black liquor on the bottom, they turn into mean drunks.
I only have one argument against pepper spray. If you get the wrong stuff, it's ineffective. Also, you can't predict the direction of the wind. The sprays that squirt a stream, rather than a mist are what you need. They will penetrate the wind for 3-5 yards, depending on velocity.
One thing that bothers me with some folks that insist on carrying a firearm for bear protection. They carry them in well used areas. I can understand why but many people in well used camping areas freak out at the sight of a shotgun or rifle. Causes all sorts of problems that may be even worse than bears. If you're going to carry a firearm for bear defense, be discrete if you are in a well used area. That's where bear spray really shines. One other thing that will startle even the most aggressive bear is one of those marine sirens that mounts on a can of compressed air. I know a rancher that has an electric siren that is painfully loud and he uses it to keep bears, ducks and geese out of his silage pits, which are right beside the Shuswap River. I was skeptical at first but, I must admit it works and works well. They don't seem to get used to it either.
I've been charged by Grizzlies and only in one case did I have to shoot it. I doubt bear spray would have stopped this animal. I have a tried and true method. If I notice what seems to be an aggressive bear moving in my direction, I pick a spot that I think it will cross through on its way to me and place the cross hairs of the scope on it. If I see hair in the scope, I am already in position for a quick, accurate enough shot to at the very least stop it, knock it down or turn it around.
By the way, I seem to attract bears. Brown bears, Black bears, Grizzly bears even Blonde Phase black bears. I see bears of one sort or another every time I'm out fishing or hunting. About ten years ago, I was coming back from building a blind on the edge of the High Tension Hydro line right of way. I didn't bring a firearm with me as I had about 20 pounds of hand tools and other stuff with me. This darned 5 foot black bear started to follow me. I had an axe and a sledge hammer but I'll tell you right now, you only have one split second chance to get it right.
I ended up picking up a 4 foot long, dead Mtn Maple butt about 3 inches in diameter. This gave me something I could easily control and use as a ram or swing like a club. I ended up whacking the black across its nose. I was scared as hell, once it got that close. I hit it with everything I had. There was a nasty, loud crunch and a squirt of blood. That poor bear bawled like he had been scared out of his wits. He gave a snort of blood, turned around and ran. That's about as excited and scared as I've had the privilege to be.
Funny thing, all the while the bear was following me, it never once growled, raised its back hair or made any aggressive moves. It just kept getting closer and closer. It stopped once to sniff the air but that was it. Maybe it was just curious??? Those scientists in Alaska that were studying and living with black bears and felt they were part of the family, until they were invited as the main course for lunch. When wild bears get to familiar or close, time to do something about it.
I shoot at least two per year. We really like the meat and there is nothing better than a corn silage fed bear around the middle of April. They've had time to clean out their systems and bulk up a bit on the silage. Marinated from the inside out. Farmers and Ranchers hate them for that. They make a hell of a mess of the silage pits and when they get to that black liquor on the bottom, they turn into mean drunks.
I only have one argument against pepper spray. If you get the wrong stuff, it's ineffective. Also, you can't predict the direction of the wind. The sprays that squirt a stream, rather than a mist are what you need. They will penetrate the wind for 3-5 yards, depending on velocity.
One thing that bothers me with some folks that insist on carrying a firearm for bear protection. They carry them in well used areas. I can understand why but many people in well used camping areas freak out at the sight of a shotgun or rifle. Causes all sorts of problems that may be even worse than bears. If you're going to carry a firearm for bear defense, be discrete if you are in a well used area. That's where bear spray really shines. One other thing that will startle even the most aggressive bear is one of those marine sirens that mounts on a can of compressed air. I know a rancher that has an electric siren that is painfully loud and he uses it to keep bears, ducks and geese out of his silage pits, which are right beside the Shuswap River. I was skeptical at first but, I must admit it works and works well. They don't seem to get used to it either.
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I live in grizzly country year round, personally I'd much sooner have a rifle in my hands than bear spray but thats just me. My neighbour, a remote country fly fishing guide only carries Bear Spray but also has a big dog with him at all times.
In truth I've never had a situation where I've thought I was in danger of being killed by a Grizzly. I have backed off and taken a different route on occasion with a stubborn bear, or fired warning shots to move it along or the bear has simply moved off once alerted to my presence.
Oh the other hand, twice I've had to kill Black Bears that continued to advance at extreme close range after trying to scare them off.
In truth I've never had a situation where I've thought I was in danger of being killed by a Grizzly. I have backed off and taken a different route on occasion with a stubborn bear, or fired warning shots to move it along or the bear has simply moved off once alerted to my presence.
Oh the other hand, twice I've had to kill Black Bears that continued to advance at extreme close range after trying to scare them off.
Well said Medved.
