My 1944 mosin PU

[dimon]

Nice original, "light refurb" as some describe Tula sniper rifle from late 1944(ТС prefix). I have seen this one on POCO Military site I think...The stock is original, not laminate. I have one just like yours with ДС serial prefix. Your scope mount may or may not be original to this particular rifle, but it is Tula made or fitted...The left side of the barrel shank of your rifle is also stamped with scope's serial number which was added during it's "light refurbishment" process. The bottom mag cap looks original Tula made from thin sheet metal. Bet you it is a 2012 Molot import(as marked on the barrel under upper handguard). It is an original matching Tula sniper rifle in it's original glory. Happy Victory Day!

 

[firebat]

Nice original, "light refurb" as some describe Tula sniper rifle from late 1944(ТС prefix). I have seen this one on POCO Military site I think...The stock is original, not laminate. I have one just like yours with ДС serial prefix. Your scope mount may or may not be original to this particular rifle, but it is Tula made or fitted...The left side of the barrel shank of your rifle is also stamped with scope's serial number which was added during it's "light refurbishment" process. The bottom mag cap looks original Tula made from thin sheet metal. Bet you it is a 2012 Molot import(as marked on the barrel under upper handguard). It is an original matching Tula sniper rifle in it's original glory. Happy Victory Day!

That's right, I bought it from POCO military. It was on a more expensive side but looked really nice so I pulled the trigger Happy Victory Day to you too!

 

[tokguy]

Holy smokes... a Mitchell's Mosin!
Good thread...I've not browsed Red Rifles in a while.
Nice little polite debate and nobody even got ornery.
Thanks to all for an entertaining and informative thread.

 

[dimon]

Just curious if Mitchell’s Mosin were sold in Canada? Can anybody post the picture of it here? How is it marked?

 

[firebat]

Just curious if Mitchell’s Mosin were sold in Canada? Can anybody post the picture of it here? How is it marked?

I couldn't see any import marks on that rifle's pictures anywhere. I heard that Mitchell's sold a lot of fakes but this rifle looks to be legit.. Scope, mount and barrel shank all have stamped numbers and also I haven't seen a replica PU that looks like this one yet (with a square-ish turret base). There are also some other smaller details that point to a legit PU.

 

[dimon]

Your rifle is an authentic Mosin Sniper made in 1944 by Tula Plant. When you get it in your hands, please remove the upper hand guard to see if there is an import mark etched on the barrel. You’ll also see a hidden ГИС mark on the receiver, and ГИС mark on the bottom portion of its bolt handle where it meets the bolt body. ГИС is the proprietary mark of the State Proof House sort of thing.

 

[firebat]

Your rifle is an authentic Mosin Sniper made in 1944 by Tula Plant. When you get it in your hands, please remove the upper hand guard to see if there is an import mark etched on the barrel. You’ll also see a hidden ГИС mark on the receiver, and ГИС mark on the bottom portion of its bolt handle where it meets the bolt body. ГИС is the proprietary mark of the State Proof House sort of thing.

Yup, will do and I'll post an update here. It's pretty sad that no more Czech or Russian surplus ammo is available these days. I haven't heard good accuracy reports about Chinese surplus yet so I may have to start handloading for her right away

 

[dimon]

Like you said before, your scope came from Krasnogorsk plant, which is period correct according to Yushenko. These scopes are rather rare these days, since most of them were removed from service post war.

 

[firebat]

Your rifle is an authentic Mosin Sniper made in 1944 by Tula Plant. When you get it in your hands, please remove the upper hand guard to see if there is an import mark etched on the barrel. You’ll also see a hidden ГИС mark on the receiver, and ГИС mark on the bottom portion of its bolt handle where it meets the bolt body. ГИС is the proprietary mark of the State Proof House sort of thing.

Just got the rifle and checked the mark, it looks exactly like you said, ГИС marks are present too Looks like a 2012 Molot import. The rifle is very very nice.

 

[scianna54]

Interesting thread. I don’t care either way, I like my rifle, but I can’t see a difference in the bolt handles. Is this a refurb? I’m assuming yes, but who knows lol.

View attachment 482526

This is a real Mosin sniper bolt handle (elevated and look at the bolt angle as well). Colour and patina looks good too. What I observed is that often the edges on the repros are too clean on the handle and the round end.

In theory you could buy an ex sniper (lots around) and make it into a real sniper again. The problem is that real bolt handles and real scopes are getting very rare these days (expensive). I have a fake sniper but the scope is real and most likely worth more than the rest of the rifle.

some info here: https://russian-mosin-nagant.com/snipers_fakes.html

 

[scianna54]

Most snipers are not 100 % original with all original parts, none of the ones posted here. You have receiver with scope number, marking above the factory sign, under the forehand cover, then bolt of course, scope mount cut out on the stock (has to be 90 degree square with same colour as the rest), scope mount (steel or aluminum, round or square, screws used for mount and scope), then scope, front sight, trigger. I have yet to see one which is 100 % original.

 

[straightshooter]

I'm curious what everyone's analysis regarding the most likely level of authenticity of my son-in-law's "PU" would be. I won't be offended if the verdict is bad because it's not mine and I have no skin in the game. I doubt that he would be crushed, either, since I don't think he's aware of this thread. (NOTE: All serial numbers that I saw were matching, including the bolt and scope mount. There were no stamped over or altered serial numbers.)

I apologize for the lack of close up shots - I was documenting the stock finish, not looking for telltale characteristics.

For your convenience, here again is the link to the photos: http://img.gg/s5k9cok

 

[scianna54]

I'm curious what everyone's analysis regarding the most likely level of authenticity of my son-in-law's "PU" would be. I won't be offended if the verdict is bad because it's not mine and I have no skin in the game. I doubt that he would be crushed, either, since I don't think he's aware of this thread. (NOTE: All serial numbers that I saw were matching, including the bolt and scope mount. There were no stamped over or altered serial numbers.)

I apologize for the lack of close up shots - I was documenting the stock finish, not looking for telltale characteristics.

For your convenience, here again is the link to the photos: http://img.gg/s5k9cok

Your pics are so good, it's like guessing the gender of a pregnant woman's unborn child just by looking at her. Seriously, from what I can see, the scope mount and the scope are a repro, the receiver finish is rough like on mine, so no sorry, no original.

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[firebat]

Most snipers are not 100 % original with all original parts, none of the ones posted here. You have receiver with scope number, marking above the factory sign, under the forehand cover, then bolt of course, scope mount cut out on the stock (has to be 90 degree square with same colour as the rest), scope mount (steel or aluminum, round or square, screws used for mount and scope), then scope, front sight, trigger. I have yet to see one which is 100 % original.

All original non-refurb would fetch close to $3000... I saw one only once

 

[scianna54]

All original non-refurb would fetch close to $3000... I saw one only once

I believe it, just an original scope is worth $1,000. I paid $450 for my repro sniper 2 years ago here on the EE. The stock was dull like the topic starter's so I put Tung oil on and smoothened out the bolt handle, looks great now.

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[dimon]

All original non-refurb would fetch close to $3000... I saw one only once

You are holding an authentic Mosin Sniper rifle in your hands. Equipped with an original and quite rare scope. Your rifle is not refurbished either. It may have its wood finish stripped by whoever used to own it before. Your rifle has an authentic scope mount fitted to it. It may or may not be original to the rifle, but it was produced by Tula(look at the back side of it you should see a star stamped there)

So is topic starter's rifle. Topic starter sold an authentic Mosin Sniper rifle on EE. It equipped with an authentic scope which was mated with the rifle in Izhevsk in late 1944. Topic starter's rifle is not refurbished, but it has it's wood finish stripped by whoever used to own this rifle before. This rifle is equipped with an authentic scope mount produced by Izhevsk(it has an arrow in triangle stamped on it)

 

[scianna54]

You are holding an authentic Mosin Sniper rifle in your hands. Equipped with an original and quite rare scope. Your rifle is not refurbished either. It may have its wood finish stripped by whoever used to own it before. Your rifle has an authentic scope mount fitted to it. It may or may not be original to the rifle, but it was produced by Tula(look at the back side of it you should see a star stamped there)

So is topic starter's rifle. Topic starter sold an authentic Mosin Sniper rifle on EE. It equipped with an authentic scope which was mated with the rifle in Izhevsk in late 1944. Topic starter's rifle is not refurbished, but it has it's wood finish stripped by whoever used to own this rifle before. This rifle is equipped with an authentic scope mount produced by Izhevsk(it has an arrow in triangle stamped on it)

Not really, the bolt is not original as is the scope, but I agree that the scope is a high quality scope, but not one of the war time scopes. The colouring of the turrets is off as well it does not have a spacer - they called those scopes NOS, they are Russian but not wartime (also looks way too nice), unfortunately the pictures do not show everything, the scope mount looks good. The stock is a replacement as well. The cut outs are so ugly, the Russians never did that to a sniper. My guess is that it is one of the imported ones from around 2007 to 2009 as I already mentioned which were converted from ex sniper rifles. They were sold at $799 back then.

It is a never ending discussion, lol. There are some youtube videos from guys explaining how to distinguish a original sniper rifle and those are hilarious how they determine it.

Nothing to worry, even Numrich sells fake scopes:

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/1249750


How do I know, that's the one I have on my "sniper" , lol

The scope on the OT sniper is real nice and NOS.

And the fakers are getting better and are trying to make the fakes look like real"

https://www.amazon.com/SNIPER-MG4X2...8FERKR2CTQ2&psc=1&refRID=Q4B6V202B8FERKR2CTQ2


And I learned enough about those snipers that I would never buy one for real money just by looking at pictures.

Real sniper scope:




Not real (note: a real sniper scope never has 91/30 or a number starting with what looks like a N in front)

 

[dimon]

Once again, both 1944 Izhevsk and Tula snipers featured here are authentic PU snipers. I don't know why do you think that scopes and etc are fakes. I have personally owned at least a dozen of these Molot imports in various degree of "refurbishness" lol in the past and I can attest that all these rifles that came in these white boxes, with tools and manual in Russian in 2012-2013, were authentic Mosin Sniper rifles made in Tula and Izhevsk. They had all kinds of scopes on them all from 1941 to 1944 with refurb mark or not. All my rifles were dated 1943-44. All originally sold for appr. 629.99-649.99. All had Molot import marking under their upper handguard. Topic Starter's rifle is one of the 2012 Molot imports. I don't know how it ended up in the crate with other rifles as he stated, but it is a 2012 Molot import rifle, not 2009. Period.
On your photos top scope is original, bottom is repro. I could see it from far away. Numrich is trying to sell you an original refurbished scope, not fake.
Mr. Yuschenko summed it all up very nicely here:https://www.m9130.info/pu-snipers and here: https://www.m9130.info/pu-sniper-scopes and much more info is in his book, which can be purchased here: http://atlant-tpg.ru/vintovka_obraz...roizvodstva_modernizacii_i_ehkspluatacii.html

I am really really getting tired of these arguments.....

 

[scianna54]

Once again, both 1944 Izhevsk and Tula snipers featured here are authentic PU snipers. I don't know why do you think that scopes and etc are fakes. I have personally owned at least a dozen of these Molot imports in various degree of "refurbishness" lol in the past and I can attest that all these rifles that came in these white boxes, with tools and manual in Russian in 2012-2013, were authentic Mosin Sniper rifles made in Tula and Izhevsk. They had all kinds of scopes on them all from 1941 to 1944 with refurb mark or not. All my rifles were dated 1943-44. All originally sold for appr. 629.99-649.99. All had Molot import marking under their upper handguard. Topic Starter's rifle is one of the 2012 Molot imports. I don't know how it ended up in the crate with other rifles as he stated, but it is a 2012 Molot import rifle, not 2009. Period.
On your photos top scope is original, bottom is repro. I could see it from far away. Numrich is trying to sell you an original refurbished scope, not fake.
Mr. Yuschenko summed it all up very nicely here:https://www.m9130.info/pu-snipers and here: https://www.m9130.info/pu-sniper-scopes and much more info is in his book, which can be purchased here: http://atlant-tpg.ru/vintovka_obraz...roizvodstva_modernizacii_i_ehkspluatacii.html

I am really really getting tired of these arguments.....

First, I was trying to point out how an unrefurbished sniper looks like. I am not talking about refurbished. I think we have a misunderstanding there.

Also, the topic starter pointed out himself that he bought it in 2009, in case you missed it.

Sure, you can put your own sniper together with original parts but that's not what (at least) I am talking about.

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[dimon]

What I am trying to say here is that TS's rifle is an authentic non-refurbished(parts, blueing and wood is original) sniper rifle, not put together. Second one is very much possible as well, judging by the pictures from POCO Military. Topic Starter could not possibly buy it in 2009. It is laser etched as 2012 import under the top handguard cover as I stated in my previous post. Unless it is fake too.