My BCL 102 - Help me make it a sub MOA machine!

clg said:
I've owned both, my MH certainly wasn't a tack driver nor reliable enough to command the price asked.
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That's weird my Modern Hunter is 100% reliable with my handloads and is shooting about 1 moa with Varget and 129gr SST's. I found some H4350 a while ago which is supposed to be the powder of choice for the 6.5CM, I'm expecting to be shooting sub moa very soon with it.

The problems most people have with the MH is they buy it and then go against the manufacturers recommendations and try to shoot surplus or soft point hunting bullets.
Another issue is that many new owners have never owned an AR style rifle before and don't know how to maintain or lubricate one properly.
Another problem is that many on here think that just because they bought a rifle that should be able to shoot sub moa that they will be able to shoot sub moa even though they don't know how to shoot properly and have never shot sub moa with any gun before.

As has been mentioned earlier, shooting a semi auto magnifies every mistake you make in your shooting fundamentals.
Just because a box of ammo says match on it doesn't mean your barrel will like it and perform with it. You need to try as many different types of ammo as you can get your hands on, just like load development for handloaders, not everything shoots well no matter how consistently you put the rounds together.


To make a BCL consistently (no flyers, no stringing) shoot 1 moa or better would require at minimum a high quality properly stress relieved barrel. After that a decent trigger would be next on the list.
I don't think an adjustable gas block is needed unless you're going with a light weight BCG or your barrel is poorly made and overgassed. It's not going to hurt anything and will let you tune the rifle for the smoothest operation and least felt recoil with the ammo you end up running so if budget doesn't matter go for it.

As others have said though, the best thing about a BCL is the non restricted receiver set so if budget is not an issue just strip it down to the receivers and start fresh. The only thing I would do before anything else is make sure the receivers are built correctly, NEA/BCL isn't exactly know for their consistency or QC, well not in a good way anyway and you'll want to not void the warranty until after you know you have a decent receiver set.

The platform is more than capable of shooting sub moa, the problems come with crap factory barrels, poor machining and inconsistent/loose tolerances that BCL rifles seem to be plagued with. If you get a good one you have an excellent base for a nice build but if you get one that slipped through QC you may never get it to shoot right.
 
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Im sorry a rifle shouldnt need fancy ammo or reloads to shoot properly. If you want to print groups than yes you need good ammo. But to smack steel and have fun it should run surplus or any cheap 308 on sale.

I actually removed my JP captured spring and buffer after tuning my adjustable gas block. A JP spring and spikes tungsten buffer is as smooth.
 
No issues with mine... stock rifle with vortex strike eagle 1-8

Bottom group at 100 yards ... top group surplus ammo.

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DILLIGAF said:
Im sorry a rifle shouldnt need fancy ammo or reloads to shoot properly. If you want to print groups than yes you need good ammo. But to smack steel and have fun it should run surplus or any cheap 308 on sale.

I actually removed my JP captured spring and buffer after tuning my adjustable gas block. A JP spring and spikes tungsten buffer is as smooth.
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Carbine length spring obviously and what weight buffer?
 
cr5 said:
about 1 moa
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A rifle priced that high shouldn't be "about" 1moa. If plenty of manufacturers can build sub-moa guaranteed AR10's, there's no reason ATRS couldn't come up with something similar knowing their bolt gun quality and experience building AR's.

The problems most people have with the MH is they buy it and then go against the manufacturers recommendations and try to shoot surplus or soft point hunting bullets.
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I didn't shoot surplus, I ran match factory ammo of various makes and bullet weights including GMM, the gold standard.

Another issue is that many new owners have never owned an AR style rifle before and don't know how to maintain or lubricate one properly.
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I have owned and maintained them, granted I didn't baby it as well as I should have. When I had to send my gun off for a repair, it came back with oil literally running out of every joint and crevice. This was ATRS's recommendation on how to run the rifle and their solution to me running it too dry and dirty.

Another problem is that many on here think that just because they bought a rifle that should be able to shoot sub moa that they will be able to shoot sub moa even though they don't know how to shoot properly and have never shot sub moa with any gun before.
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I'm not winning any PRS competitions in the future, but I can shoot a gun. I was 4/5 on the moa competition with an XCR, a rifle claimed to be notoriously inaccurate. I couldn't make the MH shoot to impress, nor can a friend with a lot of time behind an AR10 in precision shooting.

Had I been the original owner of the gun, I would have been livid with the experience for reasons I've edited out. I did however buy it used and ATRS owned up to their gun not performing, kudos on that.
 
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I agree with the above. The jp LRP07 is close in price and has lots of reports of 0.5 moa and below groups. 1 moa and barely achieving it is not good enough in that price range. My christen arms ar10 comes with a moa guarantee, was cheaper than the modern hunter and used better parts. It's obvious which one I kept.

I had a similar experience using match grade ammo and hand loads. Both my friend and I have shot 0.1 inch groups and neither of us had much luck. The modern varminter on the other hand had been fine and shot about moa with my bulk 223. I still have it and will keep it.

I remember excuses that it's a hunting gun so people don't need sub moa but then more excuses about not using hunting bullets?
 
Bile said:
Hey CR5, maybe you and I can hit up chas together sometime. We can compare notes on these things. Maybe I just have a bad sample.
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Even better, you're welcome to come out to my place to do some shooting. I have a 100yd range 10 feet out the back door of my shop and I always have beer in the fridge.

Sorry to hear your rifle has been a problem. When I got mine (second hand) it was pretty hard on the brass, making deep scratches in the case neck on extraction, turned out it was the Proof barrel, the extension had very sharp edges, I took it with me to Calgary on a trip to visit family and stopped in at ATRS in the morning, told them I lived 4 hours away and that I'd appreciate it if they would pull the barrel and smooth out the edges as I need to be able to reload my brass. They took it and had it ready for me to pick up by 3:00 the same day.
I've got some time booked off work in August and am hoping to get back to reloading for it and my bolt action 6.5CM.

Send me a PM if you'd like to come out, I also have access to the neighbors hay field and there are way too many yotes around my place.
 
First of all, I would start by swapping the BCL receiver set out for a Stag 10. Then I would replace all other BCL parts with high quality parts until there are no BCL parts left on it. Then reassemble all the BCL parts into a complete rifle and sell the BCL to whoever thinks they want it. Simple!

Sorry, had to be that guy!:p
 
My 102 came with a 7.62 nato chambered barrel , it was about as accurate as the average SKS! so they sent me a .308 chambered barrel now it shoots really well . on par with most quality AR10s. Those first barrels had very loose chambers , i think they were more concerned about reliability over everything else.
 
boss351cleveland said:
My 102 came with a 7.62 nato chambered barrel , it was about as accurate as the average SKS! so they sent me a .308 chambered barrel now it shoots really well . on par with most quality AR10s. Those first barrels had very loose chambers , i think they were more concerned about reliability over everything else.
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Lol, I think the first batch had more problems than any of the newer ones, either that or people just aren't posting about it here anymore.
There isn't a loose chamber reamer and a tight chamber reamer. They either did it right or they F'd it up, sounds like your first barrel was the latter.
Do you know if was actually a 7.62 NATO cut chamber and that the new one is a 308win chamber or did they just give you a new barrel that shoots better than the old one.
As far as I know the only other reamer would be an Obermeyer which was used to cut the chamber on one of my M14's and even though it's supposed to be a little tighter I do nothing different for brass prep and it's been 100% reliable.

Nothing will improve accuracy more on an AR-10 style rifle than a quality barrel.
Factory barrels are known for stringing shots as they warm up. A cheap barrel is typically not properly stress relieved which is why you can get good groups if you shoot really slowly but if you let it get hot the rounds spread out. Expensive barrels that are properly stress relieved are much more consistent with temperature change and hold smaller groups when they get warm.

Once you have a quality barrel the only thing holding back the accuracy potential is the optics chosen, the ammo chosen, and the shooters ability.
Optics, you can't make pinpoint shots if you can't see the pinpoint.
Ammo needs to be in tune with the barrel, just because it says MATCH on the box doesn't mean your barrel will shoot it well.
Shooter ability is just as important as all other factors, just like driving, just because you jump into a Ferrari doesn't mean you'll be able to drive like a professional race driver.

A sweet trigger is a nice addition to any rifle and makes it easier to shoot well but it isn't holding anyone back from shooting tight groups off a bench. I've shot sub moa groups with a milspec two stage trigger.
 
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cr5 said:
Lol, I think the first batch had more problems than any of the newer ones, either that or people just aren't posting about it here anymore.
There isn't a loose chamber reamer and a tight chamber reamer. They either did it right or they F'd it up, sounds like your first barrel was the latter.
Do you know if was actually a 7.62 NATO cut chamber and that the new one is a 308win chamber or did they just give you a new barrel that shoots better than the old one.
As far as I know the only other reamer would be an Obermeyer which was used to cut the chamber on one of my M14's and even though it's supposed to be a little tighter I do nothing different for brass prep and it's been 100% reliable.

Nothing will improve accuracy more on an AR-10 style rifle than a quality barrel.
Factory barrels are known for stringing shots as they warm up. A cheap barrel is typically not properly stress relieved which is why you can get good groups if you shoot really slowly but if you let it get hot the rounds spread out. Expensive barrels that are properly stress relieved are much more consistent with temperature change and hold smaller groups when they get warm.

Once you have a quality barrel the only thing holding back the accuracy potential is the optics chosen, the ammo chosen, and the shooters ability.
Optics, you can't make pinpoint shots if you can't see the pinpoint.
Ammo needs to be in tune with the barrel, just because it says MATCH on the box doesn't mean your barrel will shoot it well.
Shooter ability is just as important as all other factors, just like driving, just because you jump into a Ferrari doesn't mean you'll be able to drive like a professional race driver.

A sweet trigger is a nice addition to any rifle and makes it easier to shoot well but it isn't holding anyone back from shooting tight groups off a bench. I've shot sub moa groups with a milspec two stage trigger.
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All i know is the barrel it came with is marked 7.62 nato and the new one is marked .308win and shoots way better . in the 7.62 barrel my brass expanded like crazy took some force to resize it. that barrel chewed through nasty chinese surplus ammo without a hicup though. I had a couple stoppages with steel case ammo in the new barrel but its way more accurate , been 100% with brass.
 
boss351cleveland said:
All i know is the barrel it came with is marked 7.62 nato and the new one is marked .308win and shoots way better . in the 7.62 barrel my brass expanded like crazy took some force to resize it. that barrel chewed through nasty chinese surplus ammo without a hicup though. I had a couple stoppages with steel case ammo in the new barrel but its way more accurate , been 100% with brass.
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That's weird, I wonder if BCL cuts their own chambers and if they actually use both reamers depending where it's being sold.
If you look into the chamber on the 7.62 marked one is it nice and smooth? Be interesting to cast and measure it. Do the rifling and muzzle look fine on it? Sounds like a sloppy chamber cut by a worn reamer more than just a 7.62 chamber vs a 308 win chamber.

Glad to hear your new barrel is shooting better.
 
cr5 said:
That's weird, I wonder if BCL cuts their own chambers and if they actually use both reamers depending where it's being sold.
If you look into the chamber on the 7.62 marked one is it nice and smooth? Be interesting to cast and measure it. Do the rifling and muzzle look fine on it? Sounds like a sloppy chamber cut by a worn reamer more than just a 7.62 chamber vs a 308 win chamber.

Glad to hear your new barrel is shooting better.
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The chamber does look nice and smooth , rifling and crown look good but the chamber is very very generous . fired brass from this barrel wont even slide half way in the chamber of the new barrel they sent, they dont even fit in a sloppy M305 chamber. and they were very hard to resize . barrels look the same other than the caliber markings and the chambers ..
 
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