My First and ONLY Rifle -- Pictures Page 1/20/25 -- Range Review Page 28 --

Yeah, well lets just say, that they sold me something that they didnt even have, even AFTER I asked to confirm its actually there, which it wasnt. And fast forward a month later, they still dont have it, and took forever to even find the damn order. Was given some answers, but seemed more like a run around, so I called back later to talk to someone else, and......back to square one. Anyways, I said screw it, got my money back, and picked up something till I get my 6.5. So no, it isnt the 284 yet :) Great price too!

Prolly isn't as accurate as the F/tr by any means which was on order, but I had my eye on this before one before, with no availability in sight, and since shooting your uber cool ultra-tacticool rifle made me want something of that style. Especially since I had an AICS waiting for a 700 action which I got rid of. Plus I LOVE your pistol grip! So its back to a tactical 308, and the 6.5 will be the pretty f-class one that will search for tiny groups, and my 308 will be my mirror commando fun rig haha. It fits me extremely well in prone. Only drawback is the totally whack adjustable cheek piece which was obviously designed by someone on crack. No worries because Ill CAD one up to get plasma cut at work.

bat.jpg


PS: I got a reloading kit, cleaning kit, bore guide rod etc etc, gun vice, and precision dies are being ordered in 308 and 6.5. We have some load development to do :)

Sorry to hear that happened with the F/TR...

BTW I forgot to add, you are lucky you were able to get that G4 Op, turns out one of their main warehouses burned to the ground... removing most of the G4 Op's out there... for probably the next few months... so once stocks are gone... they are gone.

Dude was on crack when he created that rifle!! Very tacticool hahah :D

I'mma call your a$$ and find out more, cus you being quiet!!

Sounds like I'm going to have some very late nights at your house figuring out loads for our rifles!

Thanks,
- Koshy
 
Yeah, btw, heres the flimsy junk cheekpiece thats on my buttstock. From what I can tell made by Command Arms called ACP. Its a spring fit attachment onto the piccatinny to allow fore and aft sliding of the cheekpiece. There vertical adjustment is solid and tight but the fore/aft is really loose, and apparently, the only common complaint. heres a pic

fo-acp.jpg


But, when you look up that product to buy it, half the pictures show this, which is clearly different.

fo-acp_1.jpg


fo-acp_2.jpg


It looks like it has a metal slide in there, and is clearly beefier. Anyways, theres no issues with it "staying" in place, but it sure is wiggly in there. Pressing up on the slide button that you press down on (read: towards the ground) to slide it along the rail alleviates the problem (basically your adding to the spring pressure). Gotta figure something out to stiffen it up, before I make a new one or buy one.

Maybe on the other hand, that it is a slightly overmachined rail and thats why its loose. I should ask on the AR boards if theirs is loose.

PS: Sorry to hijack koshy. Swing us back around with some scope info or somefin'


Haha it's okay :)
Yea you should ask around about it. You may just be one of the unlucky few with a problem.

SCOPE UPDATE:

Stated already, but will have by next week (early like Tuesday or Wednesday). Also good to note, because my product is such low in number (I was like in the 200's), the metallurgy was wrong on the early models for the springs, should be a quick and easy fix, also the second problem that developed was from taking off the cap, if the o-ring is off by even 3 mm it can cause the clicks to stop working properly. So the good news is... once this is fixed, the scope should be flawless :)

The good news is, customer service is A+++... this is something I would not have had with S&B (Germany = hard to communicate), not to mention waiting 1-3 months just to get the product back...

Thanks,
- Koshy
 
Haha it's okay :)
Yea you should ask around about it. You may just be one of the unlucky few with a problem.

As far as I've read, its effected all of the BAT's.

PS: Your Near mount, along with mine is shipping tomorrow. Tues deliv.
 
As far as I've read, its effected all of the BAT's.

PS: Your Near mount, along with mine is shipping tomorrow. Tues deliv.

That is epic, just in time for my scope :)

I say we hit up BRRC to sight in at 25 then 50. Then that weekend (Saturday or Sunday) we shoot the living daylights out of the rifles at 100 and 200 at Silverdale! That is... if everything works out according to plan haha :D

Thanks,
- Koshy
 
Congrats :D

In the end I opted for a Steyr Mannlicher (Pronounced Man Licker? No idea, Austrian's feel free to help me) SSG-08 .308. I have always been a huge fan boy of Steyr, and with what I could gather from reviews and opinions, I would not be disappointed. The rich heritage the "Green Gun" and Steyr had also did not hurt.

SInce you asked, I don't think the right pronounciation would make any difference, since the English one is accepted anyway, but it would be Shteier MaanliHer (some might pronounce CH as SH as well...).
Congrats on your purchase, it's a beauty, and no matter how you pronounce the name,I hope for you it will always be "my baby" :ar15:
 
That is epic, just in time for my scope :)

I say we hit up BRRC to sight in at 25 then 50. Then that weekend (Saturday or Sunday) we shoot the living daylights out of the rifles at 100 and 200 at Silverdale! That is... if everything works out according to plan haha :D

Thanks,
- Koshy

Sounds good. When do you get your scope back again? What are you doing with your bushnell? (my 10/22 is now blind)
 
Sounds like I'm going to have some very late nights at your house figuring out loads for our rifles!

Thanks,
- Koshy

Drop me a dime, load development is simple for them both.:)

I have a spare set of Redding comp dies I can lend you and some Lapua brass to make your quest easier. Try and find some Berger 155.5 or Scenars.


Bob.
 
Sounds good. When do you get your scope back again? What are you doing with your bushnell? (my 10/22 is now blind)

Was a loner from Steve :p When my scope gets back on Tuesday or Wednesday I will call him and ask him :p

Drop me a dime, load development is simple for them both.:)

I have a spare set of Redding comp dies I can lend you and some Lapua brass to make your quest easier. Try and find some Berger 155.5 or Scenars.

Bob.

I'll give you two dimes :)

I hear great things about Lapua brass :)

Also would you suggest straight up 155's (longer ranges) or would you also run with some 168's (shorter ranges)?

Thanks,
- Koshy
 
Drop me a dime, load development is simple for them both.:)

I have a spare set of Redding comp dies I can lend you and some Lapua brass to make your quest easier. Try and find some Berger 155.5 or Scenars.


Bob.

Really appreciate the Dies Bob. Im going to order 155.5 scenars and 155 SMKs and some varget and brass. It is worth the extra cost for Moly coated? We'll hook up at the next ORA day for the dies.

Are the 155's still the ticket on a 1:10 twist 24"? (my barrel) I think Koshy's is a 26" 1:12
 
Really appreciate the Dies Bob. Im going to order 155.5 scenars and 155 SMKs and some varget and brass. It is worth the extra cost for Moly coated? We'll hook up at the next ORA day for the dies.

Are the 155's still the ticket on a 1:10 twist 24"? (my barrel) I think Koshy's is a 26" 1:12

Yes thanks for the dies Bob!

I would not go with Moly coated... I haven't talked about this with many people yet to get their opinions, but from my understanding it coats the inside of your barrel because of the intense heat and pressure... and after long term use will leave a black layer inside the barrel that you will have trouble getting off, even with a screw driver picking away at it...

My barrel is a 23.6" with 1:12 twist right; with 4 grooves.

Thanks,
- Koshy
 
Neat read.
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As published in SHOOTERS NEWS April 1999

"Is all moly the same?"


Most certainly not. Moly can be found in an infinite number of particle sizes and levels of purity depending upon the mining/refining source. The most desirable type of moly for weapons application is lubricant grade (1.5 microns or below), 99% pure (100% pure is not possible) and should be a wetted and inhibited formula in a colloidal suspension. Poorly refined or impure moly can contain undesirable quantities of Cadmium, Chromium, Copper, Iron, Mercury, Nickel and Lead. Such impurities in quantity can be very detrimental to any weapon.

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"I have heard that moly is corrosive. Is this true?"

Any moly is corrosive if it does not contain an inhibitor to neutralize the naturally occurring acidic quality of the moly. Dry moly is particularly bad as it is chemically impossible to add an inhibitor to dry moly. Even the most highly refined and pure moly will contain (among other compounds/elements) some Sulfur and Sulfur Dioxide (S02). When the Sulfur or Sulfur Dioxide is exposed to the humidity in air, it combines with water vapor to form Sulfuric Acid (H2S04) which then immediately attacks any metal. The higher the humidity the more acid is formed and the more corrosion which takes place. One cannot detect this corrosion by simple examination as it takes place between the moly crystal and the substrate and is hidden by the moly crystal covering it. Corrosion can only be seen by first removing all moly thereby exposing the corrosion to view. Those who fire bullets coated with dry moly will have little corrosion as long as firing is being done as the heat from firing drives off the moisture. However, as soon as a firing session stops and there upon cools down, water vapor will begin to be absorbed by the moly and corrosion begins. And, the longer between firing sessions, the more corrosion which will take place. The corrosive properties of uninhibited or dry moly have been well documented by military testing as far back as 1968.

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"I am a precision competition shooter and already get almost twice the life out of my target barrel using dry moly-coated bullets when compared to my use of standard non-coated bullets. Why do I need to worry about corrosion, etc.?"


If you have no problem with the time, aggravation and expense of replacing your target barrel every 3,000 to 4,000 rounds (maximum life as reported by moly bullet users) and also have no problem with other drawbacks of using dry or uninhibited moly (velocity decreases, buildup/caking, etc.) then you should continue to use the dry moly coated bullets. If, on the other hand, you would like a viable alternative, then you should seek out a moly weapons oil formulation which is remicronized, inhibited and in the form of a colloidal suspension. Use of the latter as instructed will eliminate velocity decreases in rifle length barrels, virtually eliminate all fouling and provide an almost indefinite barrel life.

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"I have been firing moly bullets for some time and I'm getting some kind of buildup or caking in the bore. What is this stuff?"

The buildup/caking can be caused by two factors (or a combination of both) as follows: When one first begins to fire bullets with a burnished or impacted coating of moly, the moly quickly rubs off the bullet and is redeposited onto the walls of the bore. Continued firing of moly bullets continues to redeposit moly onto the bore but instead of in a burnished deposition of moly it becomes a compressed deposition of moly caused by the mechanical pressure of the bullet against the bore wall. Compressed deposition of moly will cause a thicker layer of moly to be plated onto the bore which then causes an undesirable buildup. There is great deal of truth in the old saying that "there can be too much of a good thing". In addition, one could be using a dry moly powder with an excessive amount of impurities in which case the buildup is being caused by not only the compressed deposition of too much moly but also by the impurities in the dry moly powder. For example, there is one metal working company in the US which consumes some 40,000 to 50,000 pounds of dry moly powder each year. The moly powder is used to "tumble coat" various mild steel shapes in preparation of a cold extrusion process which converts the steel into its desirable configuration. The wire drawing industry is another example of large consumers of dry moly powder used to coat steel rods which are then "cold drawn" into wire. The dry moly powder (many times not a true lubricant grade particle size) used by these industries soon becomes ineffective due to the accumulation of various impurities. Most of these impurities are oxides of iron, Zinc in the form of stearates and many other types. This used, ineffective and contaminated moly powder should then be disposed of in a land fill; however, it is known that much of it finds its way back into the market place through local machines shops, etc. who are unaware of the level of contamination it contains. Some of this contaminated moly powder is being purchased by shooters, also unaware of its contamination, to "tumble coat" bullets. And, it should be noted here that the popular method of tumble coating bullets with moly is nothing more than an adaptation of an industrial process used for well over 25 years in the metal working industry. In addition to used and contaminated moly being available, a great deal of poorly refined and impure moly has been coming into the US from such countries as mainland China, Mexico, Poland and other sources and this moly is no better than the used and contaminated type.

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"How do I get this buildup / caking out of my rifle?"


Once moly has plated to steel, removing it is not an easy task. If the buildup is not too severe, it can be removed by using a dry powder chemical compound called Alkanox (your local chemical supply house should have it) and some very vigorous scrubbing with a brass brush. If Alkanox is not available, then use the gel type detergent made for dish washing machines with even more intense scrubbing with a brass brush. In severe cases, you will have to resort to using a mild abrasive and some elbow grease. They key word is "mild." Some products will rub the rifling right out of your barrel. Be careful!


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"In the future, how can I avoid any buildup or caking and other undesirable side effects of using moly bullets?"
The most objective and honest answer we can give to this question is to discontinue the use of all moly-coated bullets. You can achieve better shooting results and a much longer barrel life with a properly formulated moly weapons oil as outlined. A properly formulated moly weapons oil deposits moly onto the bore by the "insitu deposition" method and completely eliminates buildup, caking, corrosion and loss of velocity together with providing you with many other benefits. In closing, let us recognize that Molybdenum Disulfide is the finest and most effective lubricant known to modern science - provided it is both formulated properly and applied correctly.

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Addendum

1st June 1999
Parsec Group
There appears to be continued confusion regarding certain aspects of using Molybdenum Disulfide in weapons environment. The following information is added to clear up some of this confusion:

1. It is claimed that removing moly (caked or not) from a barrel is not difficult and that simply running a patch through the bore will suffice. This is decidedly NOT correct and is based upon seeing the grey to black color coming out on the patch. The discoloration is being caused by the patch cleaning out the ultra thin layer of Molybdenum Trioxide (MoO3) which has formed on the surface of the Molybdenum Disulfide (MoS2) due to the heat of firing, MoS2 begins to oxidize to MoO3 at a temperature of around 1000 degrees F. This ultra thin coating of MoO3 tends to protect the MoS2 from further oxidation but DOES NOT seal the MoS2 from moisture in the air. The latter, picking up moisture from the air, is what reacts with the Sulfur and Sulfur Dioxide (SO2) contained in the MoS2 to form corrosive acids. The only way to completely remove MoS2 after it has plated to the steel is to use a mild abrasive such as JB Bore Paste. Great care should be taken in order not to damage the lands and grooves of the bore when using any abrasive. MoO3 does have some lubricating ability (less than MoS2) but it does NOT have the layer / lattice structure of MoS2 nor does it have any affinity for steel or any other metal.

2. It has been stated that thousands of rifle shooters have used moly-coated bullets without excessive caking or corrosion. As caking and corrosion are related to the purity level, particle size and absence of acid neutralizers of the dry MoS2, there are thousands of rifle shooters who HAVE HAD problems with both caking and corrosion. The obvious conclusion here is to simply abandon the use of moly coated bullets and use a properly formulated moly weapons oil which has been inhibited against corrosion, is remicronized and with a purity level of 99% plus.

3. There are many who believe that swabbing the bore with a patch saturated with a penetrating oil called "Kroil" will eliminate all possibilities of corrosion. Again, the concept is NOT correct. The application of Kroil is only a temporary "fix" and will (for a maximum of about 2 days) seal off the MoS2 FROM MOISTURE IN THE AIR. Afterward, the Kroil film dries ruptures and again allows moisture in the air to contact the MoS2 crystals with acid formation as a result. Kroil contains no acid neutralizers and is formulated for the sole purpose of using it to loosen frozen and corroded nuts, bolts and other fasteners. Kroil obviously does a very good job in applications for which it was formulated. However, Kroil was NOT formulated as a weapons oil and was never intended to be used for weapons application. This information may be verified by speaking with the Kroil Chief Chemist, Mr. Joe Sinclair, who may be reached at 1-800-311-3374. It must be remembered and recognized that all chemical formulas should be used only for the purpose intended by its formula. One does not use motor oil to fry eggs for breakfast even though it is an oil. Motor oil was not formulated as a cooking oil and certainly should not be used as such. This logic holds true for any lubricant, solid or liquid, regarding its application to weapons of any kind. The end user of any chemical formula should first ask himself "am I using this product for the purpose intended and for which the product was formulated?" If the answer to either part of this question is "no," then you should certain not use it.

We trust this information will further clarify the confusion surrounding using MoS2 in a weapons application.

The Parsec Group
Weapons Engineering

******************************

Check out this bore, 1" from the muzzle of a clean barrel, after only 20 shots. Mind you, I have absolutely no idea what Im looking at, but you might :)

shootersolutions_2081_19414455


Same bore, same place, after the 20 shots was coating/treated with something called molyfusion, then firing an additional 30 shots of the same moly bullets, followed by a 1 wet, then 1 dry patch.

shootersolutions_2081_18847206
 
So I would conclude I wasn't that far off :)

Anyway, yea... I would suggest staying away from Moly! You don't have to, but I know I will (to the best of my ability) :)

Thanks,
- Koshy
 
Forsure, but sometimes I gotta wonder about all this, especially since you got the black powder crowd that just jams stuff down there barrel and packs it down with a metal rod with no guide all casual, then hits bulls at 500 years....beats me :)
 
Forsure, but sometimes I gotta wonder about all this, especially since you got the black powder crowd that just jams stuff down there barrel and packs it down with a metal rod with no guide all casual, then hits bulls at 500 years....beats me :)

I don't believe black powder has rifling? Is more like a cannon?

Also personally never seen black powder do it at anything more then 50 meters, but I'm sure it's possible.

And in my opinion they are more packing then jamming :p It is a ball usually, with a patch, and pre measured black powder, give or take a couple more items.

I don't know, I'm not an expert on any of anything :D, but I am more then happy to stay away from Moly :)

Thanks,
- Koshy
 
I was obviously half joking, but thanks for outlining how precision black powder rifles are loaded haha.

Was kind of wondering if you were joking :p

All I wanna do is pew pew pew pew. :ar15: :dancingbanana:

Side Note: I f***king hate hackers -.-

Thanks,
- Koshy
 
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