My M1A1 carbine build :)
- Thread starter Claven2
- Start date
Hi Ron,
The brass brake rivets are what were typically used on early original M1A1's. From Bruce Canfield's book:
"The leather cheek pad was neatly attached to the stock and secured by rivets. Some rivets marked '7/4' have been observed, and these are believed to have been automotive brake shoe rivets made by Inland. Early rivets for the M1A1 cheek pad were typically made of brass, while most the later rivets were made of Parkerized steel and usually painted brown to match the leather."
This information is in most books on the M1 Carbine, including 'War Baby'.
Since you are doing an M1A1 Korean war arsenal build I suppose either the brass or later parkerized steel could work. All the ones I've seen are typically brass though and those brake rivets are a classic feature of an M1A1.
I have owned three original first-run Inland M1A1 Paratrooper Carbines and all feature the brass brake rivets for the cheek pads. Here are two in my collection that are completely original and have never seen any sort of re-build:
Canadian politician Leo Landreville's brother jumped on D-Day with the top rifle and was wounded in Normandy. While recovering in a hospital in England he simply shipped the M1A1 home in his dufflebag with his personal belongings as he was too severely wounded to return to combat. Leo registered the gun when his brother gave it to him after the war and I still have Leo's old registration certificate.
The other M1A1 once belonged to a bush pilot after the war. I suppose the folding stock made this a handy gun to tuck under the seat of an airplane.
Inside the stock barrel channel and on the bottom of the pistol grips on these M1A1's are marked 'OI' signifying production at Overton Inland.
-Steve
This are the type of rivets Inland used after they ran out of the mail rivets they were using. Markings 7/4 . not the plain face rivets & not 7-4
That's probably the best option I've seen so far! I think these will look close enough
-Steve
Here are some original examples that I will try to replicate with leather and rivets. Note both plain and 7/4 brass rivets.
Not sure if the rivets I have coming are plain, 7/4, or 7-4, I suspect they are plain, but I am not fussed as it is a repro stock and I just want it to look a little more authentic, not try and fool anyone.
I have a pretty good match on some leather swatches, which I can darken and "age" a bit.
Not sure if the rivets I have coming are plain, 7/4, or 7-4, I suspect they are plain, but I am not fussed as it is a repro stock and I just want it to look a little more authentic, not try and fool anyone.
I have a pretty good match on some leather swatches, which I can darken and "age" a bit.
Nice job on this one. The '3' on the back of the receiver is puzzling. I've quickly looked through everything I've got on carbines and really couldn't find anything on it. Anyone else have any luck?
I recently changed out the stock on one of my Inland carbines to a paratrooper stock and they are nice to shoot especially having the pistol grip.
I recently changed out the stock on one of my Inland carbines to a paratrooper stock and they are nice to shoot especially having the pistol grip.
@4b1t: If you get decent rivets and are able to swage them with decent leather, let me know and I'll be all over it too FWIW, I have the right chocolate fiebings die here, so leather color is unimportant if you get good stock. The proper leather should be vegetable-tanned, though not sure how important that is. The trick is to boil it before riveting so that it hardens up nice IMHO.
FWIW, I have the right chocolate fiebings die here, so leather color is unimportant if you get good stock. The proper leather should be vegetable-tanned, though not sure how important that is. The trick is to boil it before riveting so that it hardens up nice IMHO.
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@4b1t: If you get decent rivets and are able to swage them with decent leather, let me know and I'll be all over it too
No worries, when the rivets show up, I will send you enough to issue M1A1 carbines to a squad's worth of US paratroopers !!!!
Here's a shot of the original leather on one of mine.
Factory photos show the leather being much lighter when it was first installed but on every surviving example I've ever seen it's darkened quite a bit.
Claven2 I think you should definitely get that stock parkerized to match the rest of the gun if you're already doing the other work to improve the look of it.
-Steve
Factory photos show the leather being much lighter when it was first installed but on every surviving example I've ever seen it's darkened quite a bit.
Claven2 I think you should definitely get that stock parkerized to match the rest of the gun if you're already doing the other work to improve the look of it.
-Steve
Looking on e-bay if you search 'M1A1 Carbine' you can find some NOS M1A1 folding stock parts that might be useful including the hinge assembly, screws, spring, cap re-coil plate and more.
I like the idea of an old purse for the leather as gunsdora suggests!
-Steve
I like the idea of an old purse for the leather as gunsdora suggests!
-Steve
Since Mr. Claven got me back on my m1A1 project. The brass rivets are now ordered and I dug out the leather I had acquired for the cheek piece.
Here is the bag of leather scraps I had bought. I think it was $5.00 from a Tandy store or upholstery shop.
Obviously not all was applicable, like the dyed black pieces, and thicker natural pieces. I have been using various bits for black powder projects. I made my own frizzen covers, cleaning kit pouch.....but that is for another forum.
But these looked right, being a very thin leather and a nice russet colour. All 3 pieces are large enough to cover the cheek piece backing plate.
Note the reddish tinge to this original piece, not quite as dirty and oil soaked as others. I think with a bit of neatsfoot oil, boot polish, dye and such I can reproduce this.
I think it will look better than the chrome rivets and cheap tan leather presently on the repro stock.
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Here is the bag of leather scraps I had bought. I think it was $5.00 from a Tandy store or upholstery shop.
Obviously not all was applicable, like the dyed black pieces, and thicker natural pieces. I have been using various bits for black powder projects. I made my own frizzen covers, cleaning kit pouch.....but that is for another forum.
But these looked right, being a very thin leather and a nice russet colour. All 3 pieces are large enough to cover the cheek piece backing plate.
Note the reddish tinge to this original piece, not quite as dirty and oil soaked as others. I think with a bit of neatsfoot oil, boot polish, dye and such I can reproduce this.
I think it will look better than the chrome rivets and cheap tan leather presently on the repro stock.
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As an aside, I also just finished this little guy. Probably a more practical rifle for a lefty like me.
I importer the stripped receiver and sight through Prophet River, a Gunbroker acquisition. This is a late production Inland. I had most of the bits to build it up here already, and was on the hunt for a nice receiver, sadly I had to resort to importation. Probably not economically a good choice, but at least there is availability in the US.
Built as follows:
- Inland Receiver, allegedly a CMP-acquired receiver, though a lot of American sellers claim this.
- New 18.75" Criterion non-restricted barrel.
- I.R. Co stamped adjustable rear sight, original to this receiver's last military configuration.
- IBM Round Type 3 bolt with Inland internals (because I had it here already)
- Inland Type 5 trigger housing
- Inland Type III barrel band
- RIA post-war cast front sight, unissued.
- SG slide, looks to be ex-german used since there is a 4-digit number stamped on the arm of it.
- QH trigger
- SW hammer
- Inland sear
- Inland checkered push-button safety
- Inland mag release
- Springfield Armory arsenal replacement M2 stock, birch, with matching SA birch handguard. All stock metal is post-war SA replacement stuff.
- Wartime C-clip sling
- Inland oiler
This really is a great and handy little package, representative of a Korea or Vietnam rebuilt Inland. The type III bolt and birch M2 stock are good, durable choices for a gun you intend to pack around and shoot a lot. And that is exactly my plan for this one The birch M2 stocks, in particular, are as indestructible as you can get on an M1 carbine. It was re-parked at Vulcan, apart from the blued parts, the front band (which was new-old-stock) and the rear sight, which looked good already and hard nice white-paint-filled markings.
I have a fair bit more into this gun than a new Auto-Ordnance, but it's all USGI and is built right by me, except for the barrel headspacing and parkerizing that I outsourced to Nick. It should give excellent service and will likely last longer than a modern reproduction made of cast parts.
I importer the stripped receiver and sight through Prophet River, a Gunbroker acquisition. This is a late production Inland. I had most of the bits to build it up here already, and was on the hunt for a nice receiver, sadly I had to resort to importation. Probably not economically a good choice, but at least there is availability in the US.
Built as follows:
- Inland Receiver, allegedly a CMP-acquired receiver, though a lot of American sellers claim this.
- New 18.75" Criterion non-restricted barrel.
- I.R. Co stamped adjustable rear sight, original to this receiver's last military configuration.
- IBM Round Type 3 bolt with Inland internals (because I had it here already)
- Inland Type 5 trigger housing
- Inland Type III barrel band
- RIA post-war cast front sight, unissued.
- SG slide, looks to be ex-german used since there is a 4-digit number stamped on the arm of it.
- QH trigger
- SW hammer
- Inland sear
- Inland checkered push-button safety
- Inland mag release
- Springfield Armory arsenal replacement M2 stock, birch, with matching SA birch handguard. All stock metal is post-war SA replacement stuff.
- Wartime C-clip sling
- Inland oiler
This really is a great and handy little package, representative of a Korea or Vietnam rebuilt Inland. The type III bolt and birch M2 stock are good, durable choices for a gun you intend to pack around and shoot a lot. And that is exactly my plan for this one
The birch M2 stocks, in particular, are as indestructible as you can get on an M1 carbine. It was re-parked at Vulcan, apart from the blued parts, the front band (which was new-old-stock) and the rear sight, which looked good already and hard nice white-paint-filled markings.I have a fair bit more into this gun than a new Auto-Ordnance, but it's all USGI and is built right by me, except for the barrel headspacing and parkerizing that I outsourced to Nick. It should give excellent service and will likely last longer than a modern reproduction made of cast parts.
Nice useable carbine - I'm either going to have to get another carbine and have it done, or (eek) have the Howa rebarreled. It just doesn't seem fair for a gun as useable as the Carbine to be stuck on a square range.
FWIW, you can buy a complete, restricted mixmaster with a few minor issues for around $700 and that is DEFINITELY the way to go if you don't already have a bunch of parts on-hand. Then you are only out the money to re-barrel ($400 for a new Criterion, less for a sleeved barrel off the EE) and re-parkerize, if applicable.
To import, you will be out $300-400 for a stripped receiver off gun broker and $250+ to the importer. It does not make good financial sense unless the receiver is all you are missing
And frankly, the AO guns are probably the best route for most guys - they aren't USGI but seem to work well after 250 rounds or so to break in.
Another thing to consider, I have a couple Type 2 bands here and they are lighter than the type 3 bands with lugs, but aesthetically I find the NR bbl looks too long if you use the short bands. If you look at the AO guns, you'll see what I mean - they just seem "off" a little to me without the lug to offset to long tube (?)
Well, I've decided to list the M1A1 in the EE to see if I can recoup most of my costs. As a lefty, I like the full-wood one I made a bit better for shooting. If it doesn't sell though, I'll carry on with the project and improve the rivets, etc. It's a fun gun to work on, and might make a good gun for my daughter to use with me in a couple years from now when she's old enough
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