My new .50 Beowulf

[blaxsun]

That would be cool if we could get away with it but all you are doing is putting a Beowulf floorplate on a magazine designed to hold .223. Nice try though.

All we need is a new FRT for a 305mm barrel in .50 Beowulf for the LAR-15, and it should be classified as a handgun eligible for 10 rounds. They already have entries for barrels up to 16" in length in .223, 5.56mm Nato, 7.62x39 Russian and 9mm Luger - so there's already a precedent for this.

Anyone have a LAR-15 handy to transfer to the OP?

 

[SPRTN308]

Why aren't these mags being pinned properly at 5.5 in the first place? This is a total game changer.

Service Conditions just got simpler again.

Now I need all new mags...

 

[Norincodude]

All we need is a new FRT for a 305mm barrel in .50 Beowulf for the LAR-15, and it should be classified as a handgun eligible for 10 rounds. They already have entries for barrels up to 16" in length in .223, 5.56mm Nato, 7.62x39 Russian and 9mm Luger - so there's already a precedent for this.

Anyone have a LAR-15 handy to transfer to the OP?

That would be ubercool! This, however, will not mean that we can go out using regular .223 mags and declaring them 10 rounders for Beowulf pistols. The magazines will have to be designed for the Beowulf pistol - and if they, perchance, happen to accept .223, well..... On the other hand they can't be .223 mags with floor plates and etching slapped on them. This might run into the same problem that was tried with AI mags that were professed to fit the AI Lee-Enfield bolt actions but were originally designed for some other semi-auto (the details escape me).

So, yes - very possible. Let's just try to learn from past precedents and avoid costly (legal and financial) mistakes.

 

[Mark978]

All we need is a new FRT for a 305mm barrel in .50 Beowulf for the LAR-15, and it should be classified as a handgun eligible for 10 rounds. They already have entries for barrels up to 16" in length in .223, 5.56mm Nato, 7.62x39 Russian and 9mm Luger - so there's already a precedent for this.

Anyone have a LAR-15 handy to transfer to the OP?

“handgun”
« arme de poing »
“handgun” means a firearm that is designed, altered or intended to be aimed and fired by the action of one hand, whether or not it has been redesigned or subsequently altered to be aimed and fired by the action of both hands.

So, remove the stock and add a Spike's Tactical Pistol Buffer Tube Kit. We now have a .50 Beo that was not designed to be shouldered, but fired one handed. No LAR butchery required.

 

[blaxsun]

That would be ubercool! This, however, will not mean that we can go out using regular .223 mags and declaring them 10 rounders for Beowulf pistols. The magazines will have to be designed for the Beowulf pistol - and if they, perchance, happen to accept .223, well..... On the other hand they can't be .223 mags with floor plates and etching slapped on them. This might run into the same problem that was tried with AI mags that were professed to fit the AI Lee-Enfield bolt actions but were originally designed for some other semi-auto (the details escape me).

So, yes - very possible. Let's just try to learn from past precedents and avoid costly (legal and financial) mistakes.

Actually, I believe they'd need to be designed for the RRA LAR-15 Pistol in .50 Beowulf. The LAR-15 has already been designated a handgun, but the Alexander Arms is specifically listed as a rifle in the FRT - so you'd need to go through the whole reclassification thing again. Far easier to just have a different caliber added to the FRT table, because all that needs to be verified are the specs on the upper. This literally takes just weeks...

So, remove the stock and add a Spike's Tactical Pistol Buffer Tube Kit. We now have a .50 Beo that was not designed to be shouldered, but fired one handed. No LAR butchery required.

It's not quite that simple, because the AR lower is the registered component. That's the one that has to be sent to the RCMP for classification (which could take upwards of a year). As indicated, relatively simple to have an additional barrel length and caliber added as a sub-FRT entry, because as a handgun it's already been classified.

The problem then becomes the magazine (as it has with the LAR-15 and XCR-L pistol magazines). If memory serves, the magazine needs to be specifically manufactured for that handgun - and only that handgun. If they're interchangeable, it defaults to rifle capacity. So I'm not sure if a marked floor plate and different follower would suffice as a "pistol magazine", because the .50 Beowulf is using a rifle magazine pinned to 5 rounds.

Some of the experts might want to chime in at this point... Anyone feel like manufacturing a LAR-15 pistol magazine in .50 Beowulf?

 

[SPRTN308]

I don't think this fight is worth it for a .50 pistol. As Blaxsun already pointed out, there's more to it than that, BUT, with a rifle magazine, we're allowed 5 rounds of the caliber the magazine is designed for.

As I see it, this way we can have ~13 rounds full length magazines that feed the prescribed 5 rounds of .50 beowolf, as, the law allows for that. The fact that they'll hold more .223 doesn't matter I suspect. This is more of a function of the 9mm/40 S&W magazine issue. Remember, those magazine bodies are the same essentially.

When we start pushing for the 10 rnd .50 Beowulf magazine, we could end up with a new scenario.

Remember, properly pinned, we should be able to get 15 rounds into a .50 magazine. The bonus here is that we can couple them properly, which doesn't slow down magazine changes as much. It's a good first step.

 

[blaxsun]

I don't think this fight is worth it for a .50 pistol. As Blaxsun already pointed out, there's more to it than that, BUT, with a rifle magazine, we're allowed 5 rounds of the caliber the magazine is designed for.

As I see it, this way we can have ~13 rounds full length magazines that feed the prescribed 5 rounds of .50 beowolf, as, the law allows for that. The fact that they'll hold more .223 doesn't matter I suspect. This is more of a function of the 9mm/40 S&W magazine issue. Remember, those magazine bodies are the same essentially.

When we start pushing for the 10 rnd .50 Beowulf magazine, we could end up with a new scenario.

Remember, properly pinned, we should be able to get 15 rounds into a .50 magazine. The bonus here is that we can couple them properly, which doesn't slow down magazine changes as much. It's a good first step.

The first step is to get a sub-FRT entry for a 305mm LAR-15 pistol in .50 Beowulf. Then you would most likely need to get a new 10-round magazine manufactured in .50 Beowulf specifically for the LAR-15, and stamped on the side (similar to the LAR-15). This can and should be done independently of the Alexander Arms FRT entries, because we're mixing rifles and handguns here. Remember: it's the lower classification that determines magazine capacity - not the upper.

SPRTN308 is right, though - 15 rounds is a great first step!

 

[SPRTN308]

SPRTN308 is right, though - 15 rounds is a great first step!

It means I can carry 120 rounds on my harness instead of 40 without goofy magazine changes, and the capability to monopod off the magazine without potentially damaging feed lips.

The question here however is who's pinning these magazines, and, are they pinning them to allow seating on a closed bolt, or 5.5-5.8... With .223 5.5 is safer, as, there's less room round diameter wise to get it right. With .50 Beowulf there's no reason not to pin at say 5.8 rounds, as, there's a bit more wiggle room, and that may account for that extra bit of give should you choose to put something other than .50 in it....

 

[cadgo]

I don't think this fight is worth it for a .50 pistol. As Blaxsun already pointed out, there's more to it than that, BUT, with a rifle magazine, we're allowed 5 rounds of the caliber the magazine is designed for.

As I see it, this way we can have ~13 rounds full length magazines that feed the prescribed 5 rounds of .50 beowolf, as, the law allows for that. The fact that they'll hold more .223 doesn't matter I suspect. This is more of a function of the 9mm/40 S&W magazine issue. Remember, those magazine bodies are the same essentially.

When we start pushing for the 10 rnd .50 Beowulf magazine, we could end up with a new scenario.

Remember, properly pinned, we should be able to get 15 rounds into a .50 magazine. The bonus here is that we can couple them properly, which doesn't slow down magazine changes as much. It's a good first step.

Na, might as well push for a 10 round pistol mag. Don't be such a puss

 

[blaxsun]

It means I can carry 120 rounds on my harness instead of 40 without goofy magazine changes, and the capability to monopod off the magazine without potentially damaging feed lips.

The question here however is who's pinning these magazines, and, are they pinning them to allow seating on a closed bolt, or 5.5-5.8... With .223 5.5 is safer, as, there's less room round diameter wise to get it right. With .50 Beowulf there's no reason not to pin at say 5.8 rounds, as, there's a bit more wiggle room, and that may account for that extra bit of give should you choose to put something other than .50 in it....

5.9 may actually give us 16-17 rounds by my calculations. Possibly as high as 18, but that definitely won't load on a closed bolt - so 16 or 17 is probably realistic. I like where this is going.

 

[TV-PressPass]

I think Armatac drastically needs to increase their stock of these.

 

[blaxsun]

I think Armatac drastically needs to increase their stock of these.

Tavor/FS2000/ACR/XCR... non-restricted... 18 rounds of fun... I give this thread 5 stars!

 

[SPRTN308]

Na, might as well push for a 10 round pistol mag. Don't be such a puss

It's not about being a puss. SOMEONE has to design/build a pistol and submit it to the RCMP, and, most likely, they wouldn't accept a standard 30rnd magazine as "being designed for a pistol", when it's already designed for a rifle.

The LAR's are unique in that the magazine body, combined with the markings, clearly support the case that the magazine is designed as a pistol magazine.

While not the same, I have no doubt that we'd see something similar to the ruling on the M&P rimfire magazines, where, they decided that since the magazine was designed for use in both the rimfire rifles & pistol, that the capacity should be limited to the smaller of the two.

How much you want to bet that's the decision that would be handed down on a .50 Beowulf pistol if the magazine was simply a .223 magazine with ".50 Beowulf Pistol" etched on the side. Do we think the RCMP firearms lab are a bunch of idiots??? (yes, but, that's besides the point...)

Current laws allow for a 5 round semi-auto magazine, which is why we can now benefit from .50 Beowulf.

While you wait 3 years for them to release an FRT number, I'll have spent 3 years pounding away 15 rounds between magazine changes....

 

[SPRTN308]

Tavor/FS2000/ACR/XCR... non-restricted... 18 rounds of fun... I give this thread 5 stars!

I see what you're doing here......

Taking a play from the coalition playbook are we...?

I admit, 15 rounds is conjecture, but, consistent with the math on the .458 SOCOM as well.... It all comes down to the correct pinning.

 

[rafael69]

Tjis thread is making me so Horny

 

[blaxsun]

The LAR's are unique in that the magazine body, combined with the markings, clearly support the case that the magazine is designed as a pistol magazine.

While not the same, I have no doubt that we'd see something similar to the ruling on the M&P rimfire magazines, where, they decided that since the magazine was designed for use in both the rimfire rifles & pistol, that the capacity should be limited to the smaller of the two.

How much you want to bet that's the decision that would be handed down on a .50 Beowulf pistol if the magazine was simply a .223 magazine with ".50 Beowulf Pistol" etched on the side. Do we think the RCMP firearms lab are a bunch of idiots??? (yes, but, that's besides the point...)

I think you're right that a new LAR-15 magazine in .50 Beowulf could be an uphill battle, culminating in having it ultimately classified or restricted to rifle capacity. It's entirely possible they'd require an actual production .50 Beowulf with a pistol lower, which means a lengthy (if not drawn-out) classification process.

I'm not sure if the LAR-15 was one of those "oops, hindsight is 20-20" things, so I don't know how realistic it is that they'd classified another one as a "handgun" under the circumstances.

Still happy with 15 (or 16, 17, 18...)

I see what you're doing here......
Taking a play from the coalition playbook are we...?

F**k them if they can't take a joke. They used the law against us for over 2 decades; payback is a b*tch...

Tjis thread is making me so Horny

You, me... and several thousand other unsuspecting gunnutz.

 

[shotzee]

Soooo glad I got my mags before the rest of you clued in.

 

[blaxsun]

Soooo glad I got my mags before the rest of you clued in.

Bastard!

 

[hbean]

Unless Alexander Arms start marketing a pistol version of Beowolf and imported into Canada as a pistol along with mags that is marked specifically for that pistol. the Beowolf pistol mag will be nothing but a nice dream.

The key bit of the RCMP criteria is "pistol commonly available in Canada" so a simple one off conversion from a rifle to a pistol doesn't mean you can start importing 10 round mags from the US by simple marking it as pistol mag, perfect example is that shipment of 5000 20 round M14 mags that was confiscated by the Canadian Customs, because some clever guy figure he can just mark each one of them as AIA bolt action mags.

 

[Armtac]

We took the preorder option out for the .50 beowulf mags.

We will allow pre-order once we have better ETA from the manufacturer and we will bring more in.

Thanks