My new baby girl, born 23-02-2006, 16lbs 12oz

catnthehatt said:
you will have some problems with a Palma match
with that stock, that is , unlesss you meant Palma bullets and just messin'round at home?:D

Cat
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Why do you say that? "with that stock" ?

I plan on shooting F-F with the 30 cal 308 barrel with 155's anf F-Open with the 6/250 barrel. Max weight allowed is 8.25 kg so weight is not the issue.

DCRA rules say...

(v) Stock. One-piece or butt and fore-end, depending upon the model of rifle concerned. Stocks may be shaped so as to be comfortable to the firer, and a cheekpiece and/or Monte Carlo type comb may be incorporated or attached. Adjustable cheekpieces are permissible. Any safe method of stocking-up and any stock material may be employed. Adjustable butt-plates without hooks are permissible, provided the movement from the central position is not more than 30mm (approximately 1.18 inches). The depth of the butt-plate's curvature shall not exceed 20mm (approximately .79 inches). A handstop is permitted, but its weight, and that of any rail or butt-plate, shall count in the weight of the total rifle.

and Re F-Class...

(b) F Class “Farquharson” (F) Rifles meet the above F Class (O) specifications, except that

(i) Only ammunition that completely meets TR specifications (2.23in/5.56mm, max bullet weight 81 gr; 3.08in/7.62mm, maximum bullet weight 156gr) may be used, and

(ii) The overall weight of the rifle, with all attachments, must not exceed 7.25 kg, or 8.25 kg if a bipod or front rest is attached to the rifle. Note: The overall weight limit for F(F) rifles fired from rests will be increased to 8.25kg for the 2005 shooting season.

Caution: Trigger adjustment is best left to a qualified armourer, but trigger safety at all times remains the ultimate responsibility of the competitor (see also Rules 1.02, 11.03 and 16.27(2). In particular, a safe level of sear engagement must be retained when attempting to minimize trigger "drag".


Again, why do you say "with that stock" Catnthehatt ???

kds
 
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So I can't wait any longer, going out tomorrow - Thursday (in a snow/rain storm with temps of -3 to 2C and winds of SE 20 km/h in the morning to S 15 km/h in the afternoon) to fire form some brass for my baby and I built her a new crib too... The crib has everything you need in it for cleaning and maintenance.

Thank god they put a roof over the SWF rifle range firing point, now I'll have to buy a new membership for that range again. I told them when I gave up my membership and pass card that once they put a roof over it, I'd be back ;) I'm taking along a long tarp and bungee cords alone too to make some walls to block out some of the south weather(range faces North), along with the chrony. I will be forming 308 Lapua into 6/250 using 105 Lapua's on the 6mm barrel. Pity this range only goes to 200 yds, have to teach her to crawl first. The best part is the range is only 5 minutes by car from my house :)

IM004968.jpg


I'll see how she rides the bags and how she groups some, but still have a ways to go till the brass, loads and temps are right for some real workups and come-ups, maybe in another month or so, then she go to the LR and really stretch her legs.
 
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Kodiak99317 said:
Why do you say that? "with that stock" ?

I plan on shooting F-F with the 30 cal 308 barrel with 155's anf F-Open with the 6/250 barrel. Max weight allowed is 8.25 kg so weight is not the issue.

DCRA rules say...

(v) Stock. One-piece or butt and fore-end, depending upon the model of rifle concerned. Stocks may be shaped so as to be comfortable to the firer, and a cheekpiece and/or Monte Carlo type comb may be incorporated or attached. Adjustable cheekpieces are permissible. Any safe method of stocking-up and any stock material may be employed. Adjustable butt-plates without hooks are permissible, provided the movement from the central position is not more than 30mm (approximately 1.18 inches). The depth of the butt-plate's curvature shall not exceed 20mm (approximately .79 inches). A handstop is permitted, but its weight, and that of any rail or butt-plate, shall count in the weight of the total rifle.

and Re F-Class...

(b) F Class “Farquharson” (F) Rifles meet the above F Class (O) specifications, except that

(i) Only ammunition that completely meets TR specifications (2.23in/5.56mm, max bullet weight 81 gr; 3.08in/7.62mm, maximum bullet weight 156gr) may be used, and

(ii) The overall weight of the rifle, with all attachments, must not exceed 7.25 kg, or 8.25 kg if a bipod or front rest is attached to the rifle. Note: The overall weight limit for F(F) rifles fired from rests will be increased to 8.25kg for the 2005 shooting season.

Caution: Trigger adjustment is best left to a qualified armourer, but trigger safety at all times remains the ultimate responsibility of the competitor (see also Rules 1.02, 11.03 and 16.27(2). In particular, a safe level of sear engagement must be retained when attempting to minimize trigger "drag".


Again, why do you say "with that stock" Catnthehatt ???

kds
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The reason U said you would have problems shooting a Palma match is Palma is shot prone with a sling.
You stock is more of an F class / BR stock with no rail for the sling and hand stop, plus I don't think the butt would be very comfortable to hold prone.
Oh, and you claiber is wrong for Palma mathches, you have to use .308win .
Cat
 
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catnthehatt,

I have a 308 barrel for her too and cases are really to go for her in this cal. I was shooting this same chamber last year in a 22" barrel on this same action less sleeve and re-truing and on a different stock. I did not make it to the Palma match, had to work that weekend. The new 30'y is 27" Max HV.

Yes, they're scores (T/R with a sling) are separate from the Fclass scores, but I can still do shoot the 30 cal barrel and compare the peep boys scores to my scope scores. Some of these guys are really good shooters and really know this NorthStar range and her winds. To my knowledge, FClass is welcome at all their matches, including the Palma. The more, the merrier!

As for the butt, it is a clone of the A5, designed for prone. The Fclass stock is a hybred, Edge front, A5 rear, IMO. My buddy has a A5 and mine is only smaller in the pistol grip area, otherwise they are the same rear butt.

She will work fine prone, I'm sure.
 
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I missed the part of the extra barrel!:rolleyes:
QWhy don't you get a different stock also, and just switch it out and shoot with them in class?
That way you could really have fun swapping stuff!
It shouldn't be too hard to D&T you reciecer for some irons, and get the barrel muzzle shanked for a front sight mount?

I'm not sure I would want it ALL in one case however, unless you had a hand truck to k\lug iut around!!:D
Cat
 
catnthehatt said:
I missed the part of the extra barrel!:rolleyes:
QWhy don't you get a different stock also, and just switch it out and shoot with them in class?
That way you could really have fun swapping stuff!
It shouldn't be too hard to D&T you reciecer for some irons, and get the barrel muzzle shanked for a front sight mount?

I'm not sure I would want it ALL in one case however, unless you had a hand truck to k\lug iut around!!:D
Cat
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The sleeve is already opened up for peeps :) and a rail could be added yet... but I what to use her as is for now.. I know what you mean about the hand cart, with rest, bag, rifle, matt, book, pens, ammo and spotter (Kowa) it comes in a little over 70 lbs to haul to the point. A few trips to the point :)
 
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First time I feed her...

So I'm back from the SWF rifle range. Temp was -3 and wind was 22 k from the SE. The tarps made it bearable. Set one up on the east and one on the south side of my bench. Was out from 9:00 am to 2:30 pm. I only shoot her at 100 yds since the snow was too deep to go to 200 yds without snowshoes. No one has gone there since it snowed.

My god does this baby ever ride the bags nice!! :D And shoot too! :eek: Very impressive!! I was suprised at how these 105 Lapua shot at SR. Did not have flags out and it was windy with gusts, but she kept all fireforming loads under .250" 5 shoot groups and some in the 1's or under. Had a couple of groups of approx. .075" and one group of .065" but missed a wind and the 5th opened her up to .175"! Based on my experience in BR with barrels, this is going to be a real shooter. Didn't matter what I feed her, she just shoot small groups. From my experience, that is a sign of a really good barrel. She shoots beter than I do (it's been awhile since I had much trigger time) especially without flags in a good wind!

I started at 33.5g of H4350 with 210M primers and 105 Lapua's (non-moly) just touching the lands. The marks left on a loaded round feed and extracted were about as long as they were wide by the rifling. I added .3g every 5 rounds up to 38.3g. I loaded these 4 days ago at home. The 38.3g load still did not show pressure signs and were going 3070 fps.

Can't wait for better weather so I can go out again and see if the fireformed cases do as well.

IM004650copy.jpg


These are fair groups but too slow... only 2700 fps. There is two 5 shoot groups here. The one at 34.4 was the .065" group but a missed wind made it grow some.
 
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Went out today in -4C temp with a 43km/h SE wind to fire form yet some more brass, this time the 250 Savage brass formed into 6/250. I found that 38g of IMR4350 with a 105 Hornady bullet gives me 2937 fps and H-4350 same load same bullet gives me 2980 fps. H-4350 has less ES and a better Std Dev too. I always thought IMR 4350 was faster than H-4350, I was wrong or it would have given higher velocities! It was 43 fps slower than H-4350! Looks like I'm going to burn up some H-4350 from now on ;)

Also found that this rig likes it around 2960 fps fire forming. She has shoot some nice groups at this velocity. Now comes the ladder test with formed cases to find the max load on both the Lapua and Win Sav brass, but I will wait for a calmer, warmer day for this test. Then it's to the LR for some final work ups at 600 yds and figure out my come-ups. Hoping she was a high node around 3100 fps that groups nice too since the balistic tables show this to be about 5 moa flatter at 1000 yds and less time in the air so less wind drift too :cool:

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5 shot group at 38g of H-4350

IM004769copy.jpg

6 shot group (my box has 12 to a row so this is half a row) at 38.3g of H-4350

Considering the winds (27 mph), the temp (24.8 F, fells like 14 F with the wind), and this is fire forming still, and the Win Brass had 1 thou neck thickness differences (10 to 11 thou thick), and I did not have flags out, she did pretty good IMO. The wind was high enough the bungy cords pulled the grommets out of my tarps, but the stringed edge of the tarp held! I was pretty leary of setup up, I sat and watched the tarps for 10 minutes but I started to set up. I was scared the wind would rip the tarp and that would catch the rifle and toss everything on the ground. Thank god it held up for the 2 hrs I needed to fire and clean for the 96 loaded rounds, including a 10 minute warmup/food/coffee in the truck at 10 am. The east tarp which was getting the most wind, I leaned up against it for a smoke and it would push me forward off balance when it gusted. I sure don't plan on doing this every again in the winter. Too cold with a wind like that but I just had to get all my brass formed. She has 196 rounds thru her now.
 
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Keith that is some

mighty fine shooting in wind like that.;) :D Can imagine what she will do with the calmer winds. Was thinking about going out myself today but I thought the heck with it with the strong winds. May try tommorrow.


Calvin
 
cycbb486 said:
mighty fine shooting in wind like that.;) :D Can imagine what she will do with the calmer winds. Was thinking about going out myself today but I thought the heck with it with the strong winds. May try tommorrow.


Calvin
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Thanks Calvin. so Did ya' get out today. It sure looked nice from inside the office out there today!!!


I figure I should clarify Palma, as I see it, and to explain it better to Cat.

I'm not planning on shooting TR Palma, I talking shooting Fclass Palma, which is 2+15@700M, 2+15@800M and 2+15@900M and is still technically a Palma, which is a course of fire and Latin for Victory I think.

I will just be competing against any other Fclass rigs shooting in that Palma, if there are any. I know that Fclass is excluded from many of the aggs, like the LT Gov's etc., but it is still more comparable to the TR shooters since I'd be using the same bullet and cartridge and velocities. The only diff is I'm rested and they are using a coat, sling and handstop.

Let me tell a little story... Back in the early 90's, I was out that day sighting my 308 in for hunting and heard all this shooting and investigated. Homestead. I found the "boys" at 500 yds, I watched how they did things and offered to help in the butts once they moved to the next yardage. I wanted to see how that was done too. After the 600 yds was done (last yardage for the day) we/the target crew drove back to the 600. Earl Brown asked if I want to give it a try, shooting at the 600 yd. I said I did not have the scope setup for that distance and I did not want to adjust it since I just finished sighting it in. He said, heck, we will set you up now and sent one of the kids back to the butts to pull for me. I said great, but ... He must have read my mind. He told one of the guys about my size to come over to us and asked him if I could try his jacket. Then he asked to see my hands and then asked another guy for a glove, and we were all set. This was my first time prone shooting at this distance, with correct gear. Earl helped me understand how the sling/glove/handstop was to all work and after I got into position, I found that it was just as steady as off my rest! I was really surprised. I told Earl that I could see my pulse, so he said to loosen up on the sling. I did and it was gone. I was shooting group BR back then and I was amazed at the steadiness of this setup! Like I said, as good as a rest or a bi-pod! I then said to Earl, after watching you guys adjust the sights and plot and record everything, I was not going to touch his sights and asked if he would do this. I said all I want to do is make perfect shoots. He said great. I'll run the sights and watch and figure the wind, your only job was pulling the pin and breathing, making the perfect shoot. He would adjust the sights (again surprise at how much he would adj for each shot) and between him and others as wind coaches, I/we shoot 50-8v at 600 yds. Earl is a really great guy.

That said, I'm a BR'r shooter at heart, and Fclass to me is BR prone. I have ALL the BR equipment, so I do not see the need to go out and buy a leather coat, glove and sling that will just make me hot (I have MS and hot in not good, seriously not) and will one day not fit anyways, neck, the jackets are a pretty tight fit new. I moved from a BR area (Calgary) to the middle of no where (Saskatchewan) and found no BR ranges. Regina (Doug) had stopped running BR group matches that year, so I converted my Varmint Hunter to Fclass, using a 22" 30 Cal HBR barrel and 154g FB bullets. I switched to 168's and 175's after awhile. I even tried my 22MR with 52g FB bullets out to 600 yds one day for the heck of it. Shot a realy nice flat line, just used the whole board LOL eh. The MR was outstanding at 300M. I shoot with these guys at Nokomis for a couple of years now and have made the plunge into real FClass.

I'm heading to Homestead for their April 29-30 match. There is also be an informal service after this match for a TR shooter that died this year. Poor guy, just retired, headed south for a match and got Valley disease and past away. You may know him, John Howard. He was on the Cdn team at least once, probably more. Good shot, good guy and a close friend. We sat on the APRA board for many years together. John sat for the Fullbore club and I represented Rosebud. Hope to see a few extra guys out for this one. It is REMEMBERING JOHN HOWARD Day.

http://www.albertarifle.com/pdf/JohnHoward.pdf

I just want to shoot (as much as I can afford) and have some fun, and the "boys" out west are kind enough to allow us F'r to shoot with them. The more the better eh! Nuff said eh....

Keith
 
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So we made a trip out to Calgary to the APRA. We only shot Saturday - Sunday was snowed out with high winds. On Saturday we shot 300, 400, 500 & 600M. The new rig did pretty good IMO. I used the slower 3020 fps load for the SR (300-600) and any missed V bulls were my fault! (I need more trigger time in the prone...)Winds, almost none at 300M, about 1 MOA of wind at 400 & 500 and 2 1/2 MOA at 600.

IM004818.jpg

Left to right in above pic; ???, Peter Redstone (standing pointing at Carl) , Peter Papasideris, Carl Garnter (back to us), Bill Fintoff (hand to ear), Glen Taylor (thumb over shoulder), Tom Fripp (hand in sweat pockets), Brian Worsley (on his back looking away) and Jay Winfield putting on his muffs by the truck.

300m was 50-10 or 60
400m 50-9 or 59
500m 50-8 or 58
600 50-7 or 57
----- ---
200-34 or 234

Very nice day for shooting and a good moral booster. Everyone did good IMO. Winner was Jay from Calgary area with 200-39, he only missed 1 V all day, really good shooting Jay!! Congrats Jay!! It was a very tight bunch with 5 V bulls separated 1st from 5th!

Results for F'rs...
J. Winfield 239
T. Fripp 237
G. Taylor 236

Results for TR'rs...
A. Sorensen 200-24
C. Ganter 197-20
P. Papasideris 195-20

10 F'rs and 10 TR'rs. was a great day!!

Saw some old friends and a very nice new bipod design Jay was using. A real work of art and well designed IMO.
IM004825.jpg


The designer's/master machinist's rifle and bipod
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Too bad we could not have finished the match. I wanted to compare the slow 3020 fps vs the 3120 fps load at the longer ranges. This was the first time she has shot past the 200 yd mark. I did not know my comeups even, so I did good IMO. Got to convert 4 sighter V's even. Still have to do some testing at the longer ranges, which in my case will now be May 27&28th (with a couple of other members for a weekend of testing and shooting).

There was a very nice service for John Howard at 2 pm on Sunday. About 200 people came out in their Sunday best, complete with a caterer, and some of the ladies even took a few shoots prone in their Sunday church dresses! John will be missed!

kds
 
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This past weekend (July 7,8 and 9th) I was out shooting the SPRA LR match. I was very pleased, three 1st place finishes, two 2nd places, and one 3rd place finish in F-O and we shot the full program, 10 ranges. 24 shooters (only 6 FClass shooters, but the ones that were there are some of the best in the praires) and I found the load that works best at LR for this rifle. I won the Palma(255/270), the P&E(117/120), and the Kirk agg(200/210) on Friday and Saturday, 2nd in the Hulbert agg(173/???) and 3rd in the Lt Gov(244/270), against everything from 6/250's to 30x284's to the 338 Swamp Donkey using my little 6mm/250 IMP barrel and 105 Lapua's. Sunday, with thrown loads and fishtailing winds on my back, I dropped too many points and others managed to pass me by 6 points for the over-all agg. It was still a hoot on all days... well maybe a little too hot Friday and Sunday, but still lots of fun. Saturday was a few clouds and cooler.

I have changed it a little from the first pics, she now has a Leupold Mark 4 16x40mm scope with 30mm Burris Zee (Medium - two screw ring. design) and I have re-cut the "crib" (aka foam in rifle case) for the new scope and rings :)

Hope to see more Fclass shooters at the next SPRA match, the PPRA match, on Sept 2,3 and 4th.
 
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Thanks Guys, I know she'll currently out shoot me. 4 of us after the match on Sunday stepped back to the 1100 and 1200 yd berms. That's a hoot too, hitting a V out of the gates on a best guess on elevation and wind. At 1200 yds with my new M4 scope, still had over 50 MOA of up left! Any points I lost this past weekend was caused by the nut behind the butt, like changing loads and brass in the middle of a match, or turning the windage the wrong way, or not watching the winds enough, and missing the mirage switch when the flags said it was the same as last shot. Greenshot stuff... opps! Next time.
 
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Boomer said:
Congrats...let us know if you ever want to put her up for adoption. Sometimes these kids can be more trouble than they're worth.:)

That switch barrel arrangement is intriguing, I've considered the concept from time to time, but more for a hunting rifle application than a target rifle.
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It's called a sauer 200 or 202 if you want a hunting rig with easy change barrels.
 
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