My new Cannon

NorthCoastBigBore said:
Spent the day shootin' one with a 2 5/8" bore at our open house here, similar to that one although the owner/builder had his turned from a solid (massive) chunk of steel - does a lot of damage. The two years previous we had an old E-150 van to shoot at. The concreted cans we use as shot would go straight through. We busted up the intake, exhaust manifolds and the accessories but never hit the block square on unfortunately (not for lack of trying).

We were using 6 ounces of Fg today...it could take a lot more but the concrete or the can itself just separates/disintegrates if you push it too hard. If you have a barrel made from DOM and laminated (as it looks like you might just from the photos) then I don't know what a safe charge might be - I hear good things about that design, just don't know what might be safe as far as load data goes.

Good luck & nice find!!

Some tips:

- SWAB the bore between firings to ensure there ain't no hot embers in there!
- Load your powder into a tinfoil pouch or Ziploc baggy & pierce it through the fuse hole just before you're ready to fire.
- Always make sure that the "end" of the tinfoil or baggy (the folded part after you get the powder into it) is against the projectile, so that you CAN pierce the foil/baggy and access the powder...
- Tape your powder charge to the projectile with masking tape
- If your projectile is loose (on our cans) we run a couple bands of tape & grease them. This has proven very effective for us...
- Make sure the person touching it off doesn't have their feet or body in the way of the carriage, they do roll back
- Have fun...
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With all due respect to Northcoast, and I'm sure the "tips" are well intended, every tip given, if followed as given would result in the gun & crew disqualified & removed from any N-SSA artillery exhibition or competition. Research both the Accidents & the Safety pages of the Artillerymanmagazine.com. and the N-SSA website before taking your gun out.

The most important tip not mentioned is NO RAPID FIRE, an absolute minimum of 3 min between loadings (I wait 5 min. for my 1/2 scale).

Properly swabbing the bore was considered the most difficult part of the loading sequence to do properly in the muzzle loading era and resulted in many injured troopers. A thorough DRY swabbing is required after the wet one. If unburnt powder is made damp by the wet swabbing and allowed to remain in the bore or touch hole, it can smolder for minutes after the next firing ...ram a new 6 oz. charge into those embers and somebody will loose body parts. Ramrods and splinters thereof become projectiles that rip & tear indiscriminately.

RE; tin foil OR ziplock baggie...Wrong... ram a naked baggie (basically the same as a naked charge of loose powder) into a hot bore and you will have instant ignition. The baggie MUST be inside the tin foil pouch...N-SSA and U.S. parks service (civil war battle sites) require 6 layers of tin foil around the baggie to be allowed for use at any of their functions.

Re; "Tape your projectile to the powder charge with masking tape" ...again a recipe for more disaster if things go awry when ramming. If there is a A D while raming you now have two projectiles to contend with, the rammer and the projectile taped to the charge. The projectile will be turning the rammer into many pieces of shrapnel as it exits the bore. Although I don't see it as a likelihood, the possibility exists that the rammer could act as a bore restriction as well, causing a tube rupture.

Safe cannoneering is required to keep our sport under the "banners" radar.
 
Gatehouse said:
Will the Tannerite ignite at the velocity a cannon goes? What sort of velocity does a BP cannon generate anyway?
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I Chron'd my 1/2 scale of a 10lb Parrot Rifle loaded with 350 gr of Cartridge B/P and a 1.65" round steel ball weighing approx. a pound and got a reading of 1375 fps. Don't know the foot-lb of energy that it exerts but at 40 yrds it will almost fully penetrate a 1/4" thick steel plate. The plate was just leaning against a wood support so if it was solidly anchored it may have went right thru. The plate is about 4 ft x 4 ft sq (so has a bit of weight to it) and being loosely supported, upon impact it cartwheeled a full 360 backwards very violently.

350 gr is only about .8 of an ounce of powder. 6 ounces that Northcoast and the OP are talking about are serious powder charges. I have a 2.75" tube that I am building into a cannon and am planning to build the "howitzer chamber" to hold 4 ounces of charge.

This brings up another question the O P must ascertain before loading his gun, is if his gun is "full bore dia" at the breech/powder chamber or if it is "Howitzer chambered". Meaning the powder chamber has been lined internally to strengthen it at the chamber. Safe loading of a howitzer cannot be done with a full bore dia powder charge packet.
 
fingers284 said:
With all due respect to Northcoast, and I'm sure the "tips" are well intended, every tip given, if followed as given would result in the gun & crew disqualified & removed from any N-SSA artillery exhibition or competition. Research both the Accidents & the Safety pages of the Artillerymanmagazine.com. and the N-SSA website before taking your gun out.

The most important tip not mentioned is NO RAPID FIRE, an absolute minimum of 3 min between loadings (I wait 5 min. for my 1/2 scale).

Properly swabbing the bore was considered the most difficult part of the loading sequence to do properly in the muzzle loading era and resulted in many injured troopers. A thorough DRY swabbing is required after the wet one. If unburnt powder is made damp by the wet swabbing and allowed to remain in the bore or touch hole, it can smolder for minutes after the next firing ...ram a new 6 oz. charge into those embers and somebody will loose body parts. Ramrods and splinters thereof become projectiles that rip & tear indiscriminately.

RE; tin foil OR ziplock baggie...Wrong... ram a naked baggie (basically the same as a naked charge of loose powder) into a hot bore and you will have instant ignition. The baggie MUST be inside the tin foil pouch...N-SSA and U.S. parks service (civil war battle sites) require 6 layers of tin foil around the baggie to be allowed for use at any of their functions.

Re; "Tape your projectile to the powder charge with masking tape" ...again a recipe for more disaster if things go awry when ramming. If there is a A D while raming you now have two projectiles to contend with, the rammer and the projectile taped to the charge. The projectile will be turning the rammer into many pieces of shrapnel as it exits the bore. Although I don't see it as a likelihood, the possibility exists that the rammer could act as a bore restriction as well, causing a tube rupture.

Safe cannoneering is required to keep our sport under the "banners" radar.
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Well we don't fire rapidly - the cost of powder and shot being what it is. But I have to disagree with most of your post. We didn't develop the process in a vacuum. It's been working, very safely, for us and it works very well. Safety is an obvious top priority.

I see your point re: the baggy; never tried it although I know folks who have. However swabbing has in our experience proved less effective WHEN multiple layers of tinfoil are used. The tinfoil retains the heat and the more you have, the more chance you have of finding some left in the breech after a shot.
 
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Please... just step away from the gun if you haven't realized that ALL THE TINFIOL must be first wormed from the tube before any other re-load process takes place...of course the wrinkles and folds in the foil will retain any sparks & heat embedded in it!!!

Believe me you need to re-analize your loading process. I have read hundreds of accident reports on cannon accidents, the results are never pretty. I'm not an expert cannoneer but I pay attention and learn from others mistakes. The O P asked for advise on shooting his cannon...I presume he would want to do it as safely as possible. Not only for his safety but no doubt there will be spectators/family around as well.

I have owned and shot muzzle loaders/B P cartridge guns enough that I thought I had a good handle on shooting the black stuff. After doing a lot of reading I soon learnt that burning large amounts of black has an entirely different set of parameters. The methods used by the N-SSA and US parks service have been formulated by people that have burnt tons of powder and have come up with the offered methods to reduce the chance of accidents to an absolute minimum...anybody that wants to burn a 1/2 lb. of powder at a time would be well advised to take advantage of their experience.
 
Damn, I want one.... but where exactly can you legally shoot something like that? Is it the same as with any firearm? Would it be legal to hunt moose with it :p ?
 
fingers284 said:
I Chron'd my 1/2 scale of a 10lb Parrot Rifle loaded with 350 gr of Cartridge B/P and a 1.65" round steel ball weighing approx. a pound and got a reading of 1375 fps. Don't know the foot-lb of energy that it exerts but at 40 yrds it will almost fully penetrate a 1/4" thick steel plate. The plate was just leaning against a wood support so if it was solidly anchored it may have went right thru. The plate is about 4 ft x 4 ft sq (so has a bit of weight to it) and being loosely supported, upon impact it cartwheeled a full 360 backwards very violently.

350 gr is only about .8 of an ounce of powder. 6 ounces that Northcoast and the OP are talking about are serious powder charges. I have a 2.75" tube that I am building into a cannon and am planning to build the "howitzer chamber" to hold 4 ounces of charge.

This brings up another question the O P must ascertain before loading his gun, is if his gun is "full bore dia" at the breech/powder chamber or if it is "Howitzer chambered". Meaning the powder chamber has been lined internally to strengthen it at the chamber. Safe loading of a howitzer cannot be done with a full bore dia powder charge packet.
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1375fps isn't fast enough to make tannerite blow, I understand.
 
I used to work out cannon ball problems for university physics courses. Of course no cannon but we could shoot ping pong balls across the room and have them land in a cup with amazing accuracy. A real cannon for me would truly be living the dream. What kind of cup could we design large enough and strong enough to catch that cannon ball? LOL.

Truly envious. Be careful and crack open a textbook.
 
Thanks for all the help guys.
I don't expect the cannon to ignite the Tannerite. I plan to hit it with my rifle after I pepper the van.
I am gonna try 2 oz of powder this weekend in my gravel pit. I have some soda cans filled with concrete for ammo.
I'll draw a circle in the sand bank, aim and see what happens. Already warned my neighbours.
With any luck my Shock wave will arrive this week.
I made all the tools I will need.
: )
 
If I were close to you firing the gun I would be far more comfortable with 2 oz rather than the 6 you first mentioned. That being said if your chamber is full bore, 2 oz of powder isn't going to be a very big wafer of powder and you have to make sure the touch hole with powder or fuse will have access to the powder before you load it. If the can pushes the powder past the touch hole, (and as in any B/P muzzleloader...projectile, powder and breech end must all be tight against each other) consistent ignition will be hampered.

I'm very curious, after having another look at the pictures, is that a cast tube that has a steel liner installed or is it a modern steel pipe with a muzzle swell, trunion sleeve and reinforcing ring/cascable added to it. The reason I ask is that it has a resemblance to some of the large signal/salute cannons from the 18-19 th century that I've seen photos of. some of these tubes weren't meant to fire more than a bit of wadding to make the report needed.

Another reason for the inquiry is that, While I don't know the weight of your cans filled with concrete, I would suspect that they are close to 5 or 6 lbs which is very close to the original service round of the caliber of your gun. If the cans are a tight fit in the bore when you fire it, it very well may reach the same internal pressure of the original 6 pounder guns and they weighed in the neighborhood of 800 to 1000 lbs. Different steel/iron then than now but still something to be aware of .
I know, with my little cannon, firing the afore mentioned steel balls, if I fire it naked (it rolls freely in and out of the gun), it will roll/recoil about 2 ft, but if I patch it up so it's a tighter "push fit " to seat the ball, it will recoil a full 4 ft.
Just for info sake...I have read a fairly technical report that someone did to test the effects of full service loads and different projectile weight in muzzle loading artillery. They used a full lb. of powder as the average war time load for a 6 pounder gun, it was threaded with a pressure testing devise the same as a powder manufacturer would use in modern test barrels. They found that with the same powder charge that the internal pressure would fully double with a 25% increase in ball weight, that is going from a 6 lb ball to a 7.5 lb ball.

By the way as others have stated that piece is a thing of beauty.
 
Tip#1: invest in a better gun-tractor to haul it. (No offense, but those little scooter-thingies in the background just don't look like they'll cut it.)
Tip#2: buy powder, lots of powder....buy more that you think you'll go through in a day...'cause you will...
 
NorthCoastBigBore said:
Hey thank you Plinker!
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images
:p
 
This has been a fun post. I have taken bits of advice from everyone posting and feel very confident to shoot it off.
I will try and answer some of the questions and give some background.
My Cannon was built by a local guy, well known Gunsmith in the area.
He gets into these one off projects and some lucky fellow buys it. Usually big stuff. Elephant guns, .50 cal and stuff.
He originally sold it to another Nutter and they test fired it with a very heavy load upon completion.
The result was a demolished boulder as they used a steel projectile made on the lathe.
Cannon recoiled about 10 ft they said. Huge cloud of smoke. Very impressive.
Since then it has sat in a living room as a show piece. Due to Mr. Nutter having to make some life changes
the cannon needed a new home. Up shows me, and deal struck, home it came.
My projectiles slide in without pressure and are way lighter than what the builder shot. ( that hole sentence is open for comments )
I bought fuse tonight and tried some on the deck. Burns 1' in 30 seconds. Lots of time to put distance between me and the cannon.
I own 400 acres and have a 300 yard range in the backend of an old gravel pit.70 ft berms. Only 1 neighbour ( very cool guy) by my range and he is behind it.
Safety is my priority. No Myth Buster stuff. I have owned muzzle loaders and understand them well.
I cant wait to try it out. I agree the 2 oz charge is quite small in diameter. I will be sure to see it is in the charge.
Cannon rides in an enclosed trailer to the range area. The scooters were a bad idea I had. LOL
I will post some pictures and vids once I get some . I have always wanted a Cannon to shoot my ashes across the farm when I am dead (hopefully not soon). Just think its cool.
I am going to train the daughter to fire it when she's old enough.....
My wife is gonna kill me when she see's it. I can't sneak this into my gun cabinet.
 
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