My Schultz & Larsen M69 -- UPDATED with an easy reference list of TRADEEX rifles

The Kurgan

The Kurgan

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I just picked-up this M69 from weimajack. Very pleased. The bore is excellent, and the overall condition is very good. I can hardly wait to shoot her.
She's quite the looker to :p

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Nice!

I was seriously tempted to buy one of these. They had a svw45 with supposedly the original matching bolt in it that I hummed and hawed over for too long and someone else grabbed it.

Let us know how it shoots!
 
Mine are mismatched, as most of them are. But you can tell these rifles were thoroughly worked over. The bolt slides like butter in the receiver. BTW, there's plenty left at Tradex. :)
 
The Kurgan said:
Mine are mismatched, as most of them are. But you can tell these rifles were thoroughly worked over. The bolt slides like butter in the receiver. BTW, there's plenty left at Tradex. :)
Click to expand...
I've read that they put a lot of effort and detail into the building of these so it doesn't surprise me that the fit and finish is top notch. It is surprising that they used receivers and bolts from things like svw45's and byf45's were the machining from the factory was minimal to the point where it functioned properly but that's about it. You would think that with the effort they put into building these beautiful target rifles that they would have stuck with earlier well machined parts.

And yes, I know they still have lots left.:p Don't tempt me any more. I have to stick to my plan.;)
 
I've seen them built on all years German Mauser actions, including early GEW98, and also using contract Latin American actions, Vz24, FN1930, etc. They inspected each action prior to building. Just for the record, I don't see any inferior machining on my BYF 1943. It's amazing how efficient the Germans were, even towards the end of the war.
 
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It varied from maker to maker but for Mauser Oberndorf things didn't start getting sloppy till mid 44 and even then I think the quality of rifles produced there were still a step above most other makers. Brunn I was another factory that kept quality pretty high throughout.

A byf43 is still a well made rifle with excellent fit and finish for the most part.
 
Tradeex seems to have alot of receiver variants. I think that fact alone makes these very interesting rifles. If they can shoot, and I'll find that out on Sunday, she'll be a keeper! :)
 
52 remain

A few that remain from the original shipment are identified below. Only 1 of the following M52's (now sold) still has its original front sight, the remainder were refitted with M58 dovetail front globe sights.

key:
--Mauser 98 receiver code or name (and manufacturer)
--receiver date
--key observations
--bore condition

***

(wz.29) "F.B. Radom" (Państwowa Fabryka Karabinów, Fabryka Broni, Poland)
1938
SOLD

***

vz. 24 ...not sure what is stamped on receiver (Československá zbrojovka Brno, Czech)
SOLD

***

42 (Mauser Werke A.G. Oberndorf-am-Neckar, Germany)
1940
SOLD

***

duv (Berlin-Lübecker Maschinenfabr Lübeck, Germany)
1941
SOLD

***

dou (Waffen Werke Brünn A.G. Bystrica, Slovakia)
1944
--this is an M69
--a very nice S&L target stock
--slight minor surface rust on outer metal
--slight minor blue wear on floor plate
--side mounted rear aperature sight
--good to very good bore

28782.JPG


***

237 (Berlin-Lübecker Maschinenfabrik Lübeck, Germany)
1940
SOLD

***

ce (J.P. Sauer und Sohn Gewehrfabrik, Suhl, Germany)
1943
SOLD

***

"Deutsche Waffen Und Munitionsfabriken Berlin 1915" (Deutsche Waffen Und Munitionsfabriken, Berlin, Germany) -- Gewehr 98
1915
SOLD

***

bnz (Steyr-Daimler-Puch A.G. Steyr, Austria)
1943
--this is an M58
--probably not a Mauthausen Concentration Camp variant (but ask if it is stamped with a BNZ rune thunderbolt)
--military stepped barrel
--slight minor surface rust on floor plate
--side mounted rear aperature sight
--very good bore (but not shiney)

28792.JPG


***

243 (Mauser Werke A.G. Berlin-Borsigwalde, Germany)
1939
--this is an M52
--slight minor surface rust and blue wear on trigger guard
--initials carved into buttstock
--top mounted M1 Garand style peep sight
--good to very good bore

28794.JPG


***

660 G29/40 (Steyr-Daimler-Puch A.G. Steyr, Austria)
1939
SOLD

***

660 G29/40 (Steyr-Daimler-Puch A.G. Steyr, Austria)
1940
--this is an M52
--stock has a minimal hairline crack behind tang
--blue wear on barrel
--top mounted M1 Garand style peep sight
--good to very good bore

28798.JPG


***

vz. 24 ...not sure what is stamped on receiver (Československá zbrojovka Brno, Czech)
date not indicated
--this is an M58
--a few minor cracks near buttplate on buttstock
--there are darker blotches near the buttplate on the buttstock (possibly burn marks)
--side mounted rear aperature sight
--good to very good bore

28804.JPG


***

byf (Mauser Werke A.G. Oberndorf-am-Neckar, Germany)
1942
--this is an M52
--drilled and tapped for both types of Danish aperature (diopter) sights
--it does not come with a rear aperature sight, and this is reflected in the $395 price
--a particularly nice looking darker laminate German stock
--if you can source a proper Danish rear aperature sight or M1 Garand style peep sight, this one is a score!!
--it could also make a good "project target rifle" with the addition of bases and a scope
--very good bore

28806.JPG


***

byf (Mauser Werke A.G. Oberndorf-am-Neckar, Germany)
1943
SOLD
***

"Waffenfabrik Mauser A-G Oberndorf" (Waffenfabrik Mauser A-G Oberndorf A.N, Oberndorf, Germany) -- Gewehr 98
1916
--this is an M58
--slight minor surface rust on outer metal
--club initials carved (or numbers stamped?) onto buttstock
--side mounted rear aperature sight
--good to very good bore

28821.JPG


***

243 (Mauser Werke A.G. Berlin-Borsigwalde, Germany)
1939
SOLD

***

"Spandau 1917" (Gewehrfabriken, Spandau, Germany) -- Gewehr 98
1917
--this is an M52
--no front sight insert
--top mounted M1 Garand style peep sight
--very good bore

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***

IF YOU BUY ONE, CHIME INTO THIS THREAD AND I WILL REMOVE THE RIFLE FROM THE LIST.

K
 
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Yeah, I was thinking about making that distinction in my intro, but I didn't want to create any confusion, especially since the only difference is in the stock.
 
The Kurgan said:
Yeah, I was thinking about making that distinction in my intro, but I didn't want to create any confusion, especially since the only difference is in the stock.
Click to expand...

It's more than the stock. Some differences you can see (e.g. bolt handle and sights), but some you can't, for example the trigger is quite different on the M69 - it's a Schultz and Larsen target trigger, not a polished up military trigger as found on the M52.

In fact few of these seem to be untouched examples of M52 and M69 rifles - there are various modifications evident on most examples pictured. Unless you're a collector, they "are what they are" and can be built into quite nice shooters.
 
Andy said:
It's more than the stock. Some differences you can see (e.g. bolt handle and sights), but some you can't, for example the trigger is quite different on the M69 - it's a Schultz and Larsen target trigger, not a polished up military trigger as found on the M52.

In fact few of these seem to be untouched examples of M52 and M69 rifles - there are various modifications evident on most examples pictured. Unless you're a collector, they "are what they are" and can be built into quite nice shooters.
Click to expand...

I can tell you that on most of the examples posted, and on my M69, they have the polished Mauser trigger. All seem to have one of two varieties of rear target sights. Perhaps mine is simply an M58 with an updated stock, or more likey, an earlier M69 with the improved Mauser trigger. Either way, I bought it as a shooter. :)

I did some further research, and also went on the eGun website (from Denmark), and looked at various M52, M58, and M69 Schulz & Larsen target rifles.
It seems that the M52's, at least in Demark and the ones imported into the US, came equiped with top-mounted rear peep sights (US military style) and front tunnel sights. All of the M58's and M69's have the side mounted rear aperature sights. Also note that not all M69's had bent bolt handles and stock recesses, and in fact, most seem to have original K98 bends. I think there's some degree of variability with the M69s.

You are absolutely correct, the Tradeex offering is a combination of M52's (M1 Garand style peep sights, sporterized K98 stocks), M58's (side mounted rear aperature sights, sporterized K98 stocks) and M69's (side mounted rear aperature sights, target style stocks, and with or without S&L adj triggers). You are also correct, one of the M52's has an M69 target stock fitted. I do not doubt that there are more rifles with updated or changed features.

In the end, these are nice target rifles, and I am sure all of them can shoot.

M69 example (bolt handle not bent):
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=5046180&PHPSESSID=4965d6da3eb843ab3febf9574bf28bf5#img

M58 example:
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=4989048&PHPSESSID=4965d6da3eb843ab3febf9574bf28bf5#img

M52 and M69 examples (bolt handle bent):
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=323224
 
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So I'll open a can of worms.

Is an m69 a milsurp, or a bubba?

Collectables in their own right, or suitable candidates for harvesting parts and/or drilling & tapping for a scope?
 
I think they're shooters to some, collectibles to others (depending on condition and whether or not they're original), and certainly a good basis for a custom build or to harvest parts.

For me, it's a shooter.
 
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