My STEN project...

Oh, as another little note, I think it's actually a good thing that I'm building my own bolt for this project....it means that if I've slightly misplaced the cocking handle track (which I might have) I can adjust without great difficulty.

The cocking handle slot will be the very last item I cut into the bolt I think.

NS
 
NavyShooter - those look to be the remains of spotwelds; if there are rivets, there will only be a few, evenly spaced.
As far as safety slots and the SAS3 system goes, review Stencollector's thread. The SAS3 safety slot position is set up for a Mk. III ejector, not a Mk. II.
Generally speaking, when chaindrilling for stock removal, lay out hole spacing so that the holes will be as close together as possible, without running together. Drill first with a smaller diameter drill, then enlarge the holes with the largest drill that will not touch the layout lines. The webs between the holes can be broken out using a drill by rocking it back and forth lengthwise. Or, a round file can be used. A handgrinder with cutoff disc can open things out enough to get a flat file in. File to line. Finish a slot by drawfiling lengthwise. Not a bad idea to have a gauge the size of the part which will have pass through the slot - the butt end of a drill bit of the correct diameter is useful. Drawfile until the gauge passes freely end to end. Chaindrilling to open slots is a common model engineering technique in the absence of a mill. A small cold chisel can also be put to use.
Of course, a mill will make a much faster job of this sort of operation.
 
C-148, my bolt is a work in progress. I thought I'd have to write it off when I broke the drillbit in it, but recovered nicely from that problem. (Cost me an end mill that dug into the remenants of the bit, but hey, that's life.)

Bear in mind, my Sherline mill would be a waste of time on this project. Too big, not enough oomph. I won't bother even trying again.

The slots, well, hopefully things work out, which is why I left myself a bit of play in it. I can open up the slots a bit without any difficulty. Ideally, yes, a Mill would be used. Nothing like machine precision, however, I'll live with what I've got, and it'll still probably look more refined than a wartime production Sten.

I did start with a smaller drill bit, and worked my way up to a larger one. I found that worked well, and following it up with a Dremel made things go even faster.

Polishing the template and glue off took only about 10 minutes.

NS
 
Regarding the bolt, original sten bolts and SAS3 bolts are hardened. Original bolts were made of regular mild steel (probably 1018) if I recall. They were then case hardened. SAS3 bolts are probably made of 4140 because Americans LOVE their 4140 and it's easier to heat treat properly. That being said, the bolt doesn't lock into anything and relies on its own inertia for functioning. The only real deformation I would be concerned with is where it hammers the barrel when dry-fired. I would be tempted to case harden it with Kasenit, but otherwise it should be fine :)

If I make some bolts up, they will be made with plain old 1018 that's nice and easy to machine.
 
For the slot I centerpunch and drill the end hole a few sizes under the finished product. Then, with the tube mounted in the lathe, I use the lathe bed to scribe two lines the length of the cocking slot (top and bottom of the predrilled hole) to the point where the slot would end. Remove the tube from the lathe, centerpunch the other end, and drill the same size hole again. Now you just have to make two cuts with a cutoff wheel on a die grinder and the slot is finished in about 5 minutes. For the safety slot, again two large holes and then join them up with a dremel disc.

The nice thing about the die grinder is that the 3" cutting discs run about $1 each or less, and you get a mile of cutting out of one. I find the dremel discs disintegrate pretty fast, especially on the thicker tubing of the SAS-3.

For the dremel cut-off discs, Princess Auto will have 6 packs of the 1-1/2 inch size on sale for a buck or so every now and then. Best deal out there, especially compared to the $1 price tag of the smaller Dremel brand name discs you buy elsewhere.

By the way, as you wear out the larger discs, save the little remains for smaller jobs like those L shaped slots for the end cap.

Again, the suggestion of the die grinder is assuming you have a source of air supply.
 
Claven2 said:
The only real deformation I would be concerned with is where it hammers the barrel when dry-fired.
Click to expand...

That would be true on an open bolt gun, but on the SAS-3 the bolt hammers closed on every shot. There is some slowing down of the bolt as a result of the effort required to strip a round and feed it into the chamber.

I don't think that between the limited travel of the SAS3 bolt, along with the lesser powered recoil spring, that the hammering of the bolt will have much effect.
 
stencollector said:
That would be true on an open bolt gun, but on the SAS-3 the bolt hammers closed on every shot. There is some slowing down of the bolt as a result of the effort required to strip a round and feed it into the chamber.

I don't think that between the limited travel of the SAS3 bolt, along with the lesser powered recoil spring, that the hammering of the bolt will have much effect.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily true - it depends what you set your headspace at. 9mm shoulders on the case mouth, so if you set the headspace just so, you could make it so the bolt never contacts the barrel when feeding live rounds ;)
 
38:00, $370

So far, until today, no mistakes.

Today, mistake.

I managed to get a tube for my magwell, it was undersize on the inside, and about .040" small on the outside....close enough. So I chucked it up, and ran my boring bar up the inside to open it up to 1.501"

I took a slightly large finishing cut, and opened it up to 1.504". Doh. nice, smooth, slippy fit. Too loose.

So, I took the other half of that chuck of tube, and did it a bit more carefully. It's a nice 1.501" friction fit.

I learned a couple of things today.

1. Carbide cuts better slower. Back/slow gears engaged is a good thing. Takes longer, looks nicer.

2. Be patient. Don't rush the last little bit.

So, tomorrow, I'm going to start working on the box for the mag well. I have the Lee Valley Metal bending bits already, but I lack the welding outfit. Alas. I'll muddle through.

NS
 
So, from my original post, here's where I stand on my list:


1. Permission from CFO Office GRANTED

2. Collect parts. DONE

3. Acquire SAS-3 Sten Kit NOPE, BUILDING MY OWN BOLT.

4. Fabricate SAS Receiver Tube DONE

5. Fabricate Mag-well STARTED

6. Register Firearm with CFO

7. Manufacture Barrel/trunnion TRUNNION COMPLETE, BARREL TO FOLLOW

8. Weld trigger group to receiver tube

9. Assemble Firearm

10. Test-fire

11. Adjust as required

12. Apply metal finish (Parkerizing)
 
Well, for my part, I think I won't even begin to make that mag well until I can buy a complete convertion kit (bolt, springs, guide rods and hammer) that WILL have been already approved and in a registered Semi Sten. So I'll have the right FRT No to begin with whan I do my application for registration.

If I just built the rest, WITHOUT bolt kit and without mag well, would I still be in legality or should I just put things on a halt until I get that bolt kit and THEN begin my mag well and go register that mag well before I build more of the Sten?

For the moment, a tube could be completed, assembled and tack welded no?


J. Savoie
 
I don't see why not - the tube is NOT the receiver. A tube with no internals and no mag well is just so much metal. A real sten bolt doesn;t fit you .095" walled receiver either, so it's not even possible to fire it single-shot without a SAS bolt.

The mag well can be made and registered as a frame/receiver only - no problem. You don't even need any other part of the gun, but the RCMP will liekly consider it a restricted firearm. I see no issue with building either part, really. That being said, if they ask you to submit it and you don't have anything but a tube and magwell, they may shoose to seize it until such a time as you can produce the internals for them to test, etc.
 
Just saw this Sten variant on Brian ####'s site...vertical mag. Wonder if it's worth a thought for someone making a new bolt and housing anyway?

NFA FIREARMS

York Arms Co. Sten Mk.II vertical feed, cal. 9mm w/10 magazines and sling, Form 3 or Form 4 transferable in SC, Excellent cond. $5500.00 (2813)

(fix link, remove space in http)

ht tp://www.bdlltd.com/military_firearms%20MODERN.htm
 
NavyShooter said:
I have an old 9mm barrel, with about 1/2" on each end mucked up due to welding.

I do not yet have my new barrel blank.

If I were to chop off both ends, re-face, and add a new bushing/pin, would it be legal for me to make this gun with a 6" barrel instead of the correct 7"?

Do you think I'd end up having to submit it for viewing by the lab?

Just curious.

I'm not anywhere near firing it yet, but it's an idea that popped into my head earlier as I was mucking about.

Thanks,

NS
Click to expand...

I don't know about whether or not it would end up having to go to the lab because of the short barrel, but I decided to give shortening a cut barrel a try. Some of the barrels (but not all) use a sleeve at the chamber end for the larger portions of the barrel. This way they could just use 3/4" barrel stock for the barrels, and pin the barrel to the sleeve with the same pin that retains the barrel nut. The third barrel I tried had the sleeve, so I knocked out the barrel from the sleeve on a press. I cut both ends of the barrel clean, and re-inserted it into the now welded sleeve (it was cut at the chamber area as well). A quick crowning of the barrel on the lathe, along with the neccessary rechambering and chamfering of the chamber end of the barrel, and it was done. I gave it a quick sandblast and cold blue and it looks good. Total material lost was about 1-1/8 inches, so now the barrel is only 6-1/2 long, instead of 7-5/8.
DSCF0077-1.jpg

DSCF0078-1.jpg
 
I have about a half dozen scrap barrels in similar shape. This is a way to recycle some stock that would otherwise be useless.

I did use a piece of one to make a new barrel for a prohib 12.6 a while back. I'll post some photos of that project in it's own thread when the project has finished.
 
If appearance were an issue, it would be easy enough to install a sleeve at the muzzle end to increase the apparent over all length.
 
This is a vey good idea stencollector. I have some scrap 9mm carbine barrel which was too small in diameter for my SAS project. But using your idea and turning a short chamber section out of 4140 and then turning down the carbine barrle to fit, would give me a carbine length sten barrel for free.

A couple of quick questions; what diameter did you turn the barrel down to to fit in the chamber section?

Did you use a straight reamer for the chamber? I think the tapered 9mm reamer are unnecessary for a closed bolt design?
 
The barrel remains it's usual diameter of 3/4 an inch. It is not stepped, but is a tight fit onto the stepped portion. The pin that holds the barrel nut on also goes through the barrel portion of the combination.

I used a straight reamer. Combined with my tailstock being a couple thou out, it formed a tapered chamber nearly identical to the original sten chamber.

Not sure how much the taper matters on the closed bolt, but I think it helps the feeding.

There are drawings of the barrel (and all other parts for that matter) available free on the internet. I had the link posted in the other (very long) sten thread.
 
Known variants we know se can make from the SAS-3 kit + parts kits are :

-Sten Mk3

-Sten Mk2 (for the moment the ONLY one with a FRT number and with a certificate of registration)

-Sten Mk V (If you wish I might ask for permission to post pictures of one build here)

-R-5 Gnome-Rhône (well if one feels like it is possible I'm sure.)

-MP38 look-a-like

" A WHAT? " Will you say. So as words are good but pictures are better yet, take a look!

MP38STEN-1991-DWG1.jpg


MP38STEN-1991-DWG2.jpg


MP38STEN-1991-page-4.jpg


MP38STEN-1991-page-5.jpg


MP38STEN-1991-page-6.jpg



Who knows, maybe the idea is worth digging. What do you think? (comments please) By the way, I have the same images in .pdf format if anyones want 'em please PM and I'll send it (as long as we can insert attachments on PMs here.) Or give me your email so I email it from my personal email.



J. Savoie
 
Well,

After a busy weekend of service rifle shooting, here's some progress for tonight.

I worked on the bolt, putting a .071" deep facing cut for the case....

Then I decided, well, what the heck. My 9mm barrel length hasn't arrived yet, and so I don't want to mess with the external dimensions of my cut-up barrel, but hey...why not spin the cut up barrel in the lathe and see if I can use it as a chamber check/function check dummy barrel. Not for shooting it, just for cycling the action to see how it runs by hand. So, that went in the lathe next, and a few minutes later, presto!

Here's the bolt. As you can see, I have "precisely" laid out where the feed lips and extractor slot will be....LOL

Apr%2008%20100%20(Small).jpg


Here we are, with the bolt face done, and a dummy 9mm round for checking....

Apr%2008%20101%20(Small).jpg


Apr%2008%20102%20(Small).jpg


Here's the barrel as I chucked it up:

Apr%2008%20103%20(Small).jpg


Here we are, with the bolt in the receiver tube, the barrel and trunnion test fitted in....with another dummy 9mm round hanging around...

Apr%2008%20105%20(Small).jpg


Lets see how things line up...

Apr%2008%20106%20(Small).jpg


Tada!!!!

It fits!

Apr%2008%20107%20(Small).jpg


As you can see from the chamber area, the big torch cut is still present, so this is quite obviously NOT a usable barrel, an I did nothing to clean up the muzzle.

I'm in the "slow-time" production mode right now...too busy with other stuff like actually shooting!

So, time and cost status:

40:00, $370

I have the collar ring cut, but not the openings in it yet, I might get that done this week. Next week I will see if I can get some time on a Mill down at a "friend's place" and see if I can get the bolt done up.

You never know, I might get this thing shooting before the summer's out after all!

NS
 
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