My STEN project...

[NavyShooter]

Well, I've receiver permission from the CFO (verbally today, written version to follow) to construct a Sten MK II, in an identical pattern to that which StenCollector has created.

So, this is my thread, to show the progress of the project.

Thus far, what I have onhand is a Dewat Sten MK.II, 1943, Longbranch manufacture. It is the inspiration for my project. I picked it up in the EE about 2-3 years ago, intending to use it to make a trophy for a local CQB rifle match.

Anyhow, I'm going to break down my project into some simple, attainable stages.

1. Permission from CFO Office GRANTED

2. Collect parts.

3. Acquire SAS-3 Sten Kit

4. Fabricate SAS Receiver Tube

5. Fabricate Mag-well

6. Register Firearm with CFO

7. Manufacture Barrel/trunnion

8. Weld trigger group to receiver tube

9. Assemble Firearm

10. Test-fire

11. Adjust as required

12. Apply metal finish (Parkerizing)

So. As far as I can tell, I'm at step 1 of 12. Step 2 should come later this week or early next week when I receive a STEN Mk.II Parts Kit.

That will leave me at step 3.

Step 7 might come next, since I have a 9mm barrel blank coming in shortly, and I'm picking up my lathe tomorrow.

I will add updates on a slow-time basis, especially when you consider that the summer is coming, I have 2 kids, a busy service rifle schedule and precision rifle schedule, training for the CF Bisley team, my ship will be sailing at various points over the next while, etc etc. Now that the excuses are out of the way, I'll get on with the project, and show you guys what I've got as the "Sample" for my project.

It's a really nice STEN Mk.II dewat. It's a bit of gun-####, but dis-satisfying in that it's not live.

My intent is to make my SAS-3 kit up, using exactly the same serial number as is on the Dewat, so that it can, in a way, live and shoot again.

So, stand-by for pics, (next post) and further details of the project.

NavyShooter

(BTW, I'm going to be picky about keeping this thread on topic, so if you're post-whoring, or heading off on a tangent, I'll delete your response...just so you're warned in advance, ok guys?)

 

[NavyShooter]

FRT Data on the SAS Sten Mk. II

FRT Report
webFRT v2.07

Firearm Reference No 126844

Summary

Make: Homemade
Model: Sten MARK 2 Copy
Manufacturer: (Blank)
Level: Non-Commercial Customization
Type: Commercial Version
Action: Semi-Automatic
Country of Manufactuer: (Blank)
Serial Numbering: Numbered
Legal Classification: Restricted

Caliber, Shots and Barrel Length

Firearm Ref No: 126844-1
Caliber: 9mm LUGER
Shots: 5
Barrel (mm): 197
Legal Classification: Restricted
Legal Authority: CC 84(1) "Restricted Firearm" para. (b)
Level: Non-Commercial Customization
Barrel Type Code: (Blank)

Notes

Make
-Make is not found on the firearm.

Model
-"SAS-3 MK 2", "T-15 IND", "CANADA" and a serial number is marked on the magazine housing of the firearm.
-this firearm is a homemade semi-automatic only reproduction of a Second World War STEN MARK 2 submachine gun, distinguished by its all-metal welded construction.
-the basis of this fabrication is the SAS-3 (Semiautomatic Sten Mark 3) tube kit as sold by T-15 industries, salvaged scrap parts, and a homemade magazine housing; deemed to be the receiver/frame.
-features include: fixed open sights; a "wire loop frame" style stock; tubular construction; 7 3/4" / 197mm barrel, and magazine housing that extends to the left of the receiver tube, an AR-15 type firing pin and a specially manufactured bolt assembly from T-15 Industries.

Action
-closed-bolt, striker fired, blowback operated.

Serial Number
-observed serial number was located on the magazine housing.
-the observed serial number consisted of a number followed by a letter followed by two digits.

Shots
-detachable box magazine.

Canadian Law Comments
-this firearm has a homemade receiver/frame which, in conjuntion with SAS parts, supports only semi-automatic fire.

Cross-References
No Data Retrieved

Also Known As/Product Code
No Data Retrieved

Year Dates
No Data Retrieved

Importer
No Data Retrieved

 

[NavyShooter]

Dewat Sten #7L1261 Pictures

Right Side View:

Left Side View:

Magwell Details:

Bottom of the Mag Well:

Right Side close-up:

Left Side Close-up:

Stripping Part 1:

Stripping Part 2: (Field Strip level)

Stripping Part 3:

Stripping Part 4: (Final)

I hope at the end of the project to do this again with the SAS-3, and show the similarities, and differences of the kits.

Keep posted, but be patient.

NavyShooter

 

[NavyShooter]

The non-mentioned part of the project (happening in support of it) is the new lathe.

The Sherline was simply too small to be of any real use for this project, so I upgraded today....it's a 4 1/2 foot Southbend. Picked it up this afternoon, and spent the rest of the day cleaning it up, oiling it, and getting a helper to assist me....start them young!

NS

Picking it up...

The bench:

Everything stuffed in the back of the wife's Mini-van....my Mazda protege didn't have the space.

The location:

The space cleared...

Moved in....ready to clean.

My faithful assistant:

All moved in...now I need to wire it in, and get a new belt for it.

 

[NavyShooter]

Received a letter from the CFO today....


"Dear Mr. NavyShooter

Subject:
Home Built Firearm
Semi-Auto Sten Mk.II
FRT 126844-1

I am writing as a follow up to our conversaiont this date. I have reviewed your proposal to build from scratch a replica of a Sten Mk. II firearm. You have advised me that it is your intention to design your firearm as described in Fiream Reference Table No. 126844-1.

I see no difficulty in you doing this. My only advise is that when you have build the frame and receiver that you contact this office to have the firearm verified and registered. Once the firearm has been complete the registration information can be modified to accurately describe the firearm.

If you have any questions during the construction, feel free to contact this office.

Yours truly,

CFO"

So, step 1 is fully complete, with written approval on CFO letterhead in hand.

Life is good.

NS

 

[NavyShooter]

Well, struck out with supplier #2. Here's the response I received:

These would require a US export licence, I would be very surprised if the
manufacture is set up with an FFL and prepared to apply for an export
licence. They would have to be shipped to our export agent who would apply
for licence and if issued, he could ship, this is a lot of running around. I
would estimate final cost to be twice the US advertised retail. I do not
think the US State Dept would approve an export licence. We also have
concerns on warranty and liability etc.


I am not keen, several years ago we paid a $12,000.0 deposit to a US
manufacture for a quantity of semi auto M3 Grease Guns. End result, no US
Export licence, no Grease Guns and no refund of our deposit! Once bitten
twice shy!


Feel free to cut and paste to CGN, I wish you luck, but for a handful of
kits it simply would not be worth our while.


Regards

This leaves me with one other import/export company, then the group-buy for kits falls through, and my task becomes a bit more difficult....requiring me to build my own bolt too.

NS

 

[NavyShooter]

Registering them should be no problem. See StenCollector's thread. Now that the precedent has been set, it should be easy to follow. That will be documented in this thread as my project progresses.

As for building to sell, well, I don't think it'd be practical.

A local machine shop runs at $55 per hour for machine time. Suppose you only need 10 hours of machine time....that's $550 just for machine time. Then you add in materiels, assembly, fitting....costs a lot.

With CNC, your machine time is even more expensive.

If you refer to the following image:

You can see some of the parts that would need to be made up.

If you're building from scratch, you will need a metal press in order to make some of the stampings, and that's going to cost a LOT.

While it was extremely inexpensive to build a STEN gun in WWII terms, when parts were standardized, subcontracted, and designed to be simple, that means simple in terms of industrial scale production....not in terms of home-shop machinist production.

I'm glad I've got a parts kit to build from (it arrived yesterday, expect pics maybe tomorrow or early next week) because to manufacture all of these parts from scratch would be troublesome at best, and nearly impossible for me at worst.

So, anyhow, progress is being made, and I'm muddling along towards getting things together. The lathe should be running this weekend, and the AXA toolpost is almost ready to be fitted (I'm machining the base down to the right size to fit on my Sherline....it's painfully slow!)

Going to update an earlier post, since I've now got my parts kit onhand. Two milestones complete!

NS

 

[NavyShooter]

Well,

Struck out with the 3rd importer on the list.

Homegrown solution might be best.

NS

Oh, and here's a pic of my AXA Toolpost installed:

 

[TheIndifferent1]

With all these tool pictures, I figure you guys will get a laugh out of this. I know tiriaq has seen this already, but hopefully it's new for most of you

DRILL PRESS: A tall upright machine useful for suddenly
snatching flat metal bar stock out of your hands so that it
smacks you in the chest and flings your beer across the
room, splattering it against that freshly painted airplane
part you were drying.


WIRE WHEEL: Cleans paint off bolts and then throws them
somewhere under the workbench with the speed of light. Also
removes fingerprint whorls and hard-earned guitar calluses
in about the time it takes you to say, "Ouch...."


ELECTRIC HAND DRILL: Normally used for spinning pop rivets
in their holes until you die of old age.

PLIERS: Used to round off bolt heads.

HACKSAW: One of a family of cutting tools built on the Ouija
board principle. It transforms human energy into a crooked,
unpredictable motion, and the more you attempt to influence
its course, the more dismal your future becomes.

VISE-GRIPS: Used to round off bolt heads. If nothing else is
available, they can also be used to transfer intense welding
heat to the palm of your hand.

OXYACETYLENE TORCH: Used almost entirely for lighting
various flammable objects in your shop on fire. Also handy
for igniting the grease inside the wheel hub you want the
bearing race out of.

WHITWORTH SOCKETS: Once used for working on older British
cars and motorcycles, they are now used mainly for
impersonating that 9/16 or 1/2 socket you've been s earching
for the last 15 minutes.

HYDRAULIC FLOOR JACK: Used for lowering an automobile to the
ground after you have installed your new disk brake pads,
trapping the jack handle firmly under the bumper.

EIGHT-FOOT LONG DOUGLAS FIR 2X4: Used for levering an
automobile upward off a hydraulic jack handle.

TWEEZERS: A tool for removing wood splinters.

PHONE: Tool for calling your neighbors to see if he has
another hydraulic floor jack.

SNAP-ON GASKET SCRAPER: Theoretically useful as a sandwich
tool for spreading mayonnaise; used mainly for getting dog
#### off your boot.

E-Z OUT BOLT AND STUD EXTRACTOR: A tool ten times harder
than any known drill bit that snaps off in bolt holes you
couldn't use anyway.

TWO-TON ENGINE HOIST: A tool for testing the tensile
strength on everything you forgot to disconnect.

CRAFTSMAN 1/2 x 16-I NCH SCREWDRIVER: A large prybar that
inexplicably has an accurately machined screwdriver tip on
the end opposite the handle.

AVIATION METAL SNIPS: See hacksaw.

TROUBLE LIGHT: The home mechanic's own tanning booth.
Sometimes called a drop light, it is a good source of
vitamin D, "the sunshine vitamin," which is not otherwise
found under cars at night. Health benefits aside, it's main
purpose is to consume 40-watt light bulbs at about the same
rate that 105-mm howitzer shells might be used during, say,
the first few hours of the Battle of the Bulge. More often
dark than light, its name is somewhat misleading.

PHILLIPS SCREWDRIVER: Normally used to stab the lids of
old-style paper-and-tin oil cans and splash oil on your
shirt; but can also be used, as the name implies, to strip
out Phillips screw heads.

AIR COMPRESSOR: A machine that takes energy produced in a
coal-burning power plant 200 miles away and transforms it
into compressed air that travels by hose to a Chicago
Pneumatic impact wrench that grips rusty bolts last over
tightened 58 years ago by someone at ERCO, and neatly rounds
off their heads.

PRY BAR: A tool used to crumple the metal surrounding that
clip or bracket you needed to remove in order to replace a
50¢ part.

HOSE CUTTER: A tool used to cut hoses too short.

HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer
nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the
most expensive parts not far from the object we are trying
to hit.

MECHANIC'S KNIFE: Used to open and slice through the
contents of cardboard cartons delivered to your front door;
works particularly well on contents such as seats, vinyl
records, liquids in plastic bottles, collector magazines,
refund checks, and rubber or plastic parts.

DAMMIT TOOL: Any handy tool that you grab and throw across
the garage while yelling "DAMMIT" at the top of your lungs.
It is also the next tool that you will need.

EXPLETIVE: A balm, usually applied verbally in hindsight,
which somehow eases those pains and indignities following
our every deficiency in foresight.

 

[NavyShooter]

So, the big lathe is now turning and burning. Life is good. I have to get my other friend who's a pro machinist to drop by and get things fully tuned/aligned/etc...

That said, there will be an update shortly on my Sten progress...in the meantime, here's the reason for a lack of progress lately:

Got a buddy who's retiring, and had to do up a "little" shell for him.

The block of maple for the projectile was a bit short, so I had to shorten it's dimensions by about 2"....otherwise it would have been exact.

As it is, I followed scale dimensions for it, and it looks pretty good....he was also on the MARLANT team, so he gets the small arms rounds too

Stand-by for progress report...

BTW, so far, here's what this project has taken:

Sten Kit: $275
Metal: $17

Total: $292 (so far)

Time:

1 hour to draft letter for CFO
1 hour with CFO
3 hours trolling CGN and MSC for pics/info/inspiration

Total time: 5 hours

NavyShooter

 

[NavyShooter]

The update...

Cost this evening....$0 Total so far, $292

Time this evening.... 2:05 Total time 7:05


I decided that with the project above out of the way, I'd clean the shop up a bit, that resulted in me being able to see the bench again, which inspired me to put a bit of time into the Sten project....

In order to build, you first have to de-construct. Bringing some stuff to light that hasn't seen the light of day in 60+ years....kinda neat.

So, the job for this evening was to remove the tube from the rear portion....I started with a quick saw down the back, just in front of the rear ring. Didn't go all the way through the bottom, so I used a dremel with a cutting disc inside to complete the circle. (Broke 2 cutting discs in there.)

Here's the start point:

Then I took the dremel and cut around the welded tabs....it took a couple of minutes with a tiny file to finish a couple of the cuts that didn't go quite deep enough (would have been cutting the trigger group if I had) but eventually, I got it all taken apart.

Here's the tube:

And here's the trigger group, as it came free:

Here's a look in the rear of the tube, note the spot-weld.

Here's what it looks like underneath:

Here's the bits that came out:

The back end nicely polished up:

The front end polished up:

Note, only the right side showed evidence of spot welding, the left side didn't show any....just a puddle of weld holding it together. Wartime expedience at it's best!

Note, I did manage to crack that weld at the front, my bad, I'll get it zapped back together as we go along.

And, here's the pile of bits and pieces that I'm working with now:

Note the two chunks of steel on the right, one is my magazine housing, the other is my bolt. I just haven't taken away the chips yet.

So, that's where I'm at just now. It's been a slow-time project to this point, and will continue to be so, but it's good fun.

NavyShooter

 

[tiriaq]

Just a tiny bit of Sten trivia - note that the rear sight on this Brit. gun had a pin which extended down into a hole in the top of the tube, thereby positively locating the tube, and the rear sight. Sometimes this pin engages a notch in the tube, not a hole. I have not seen this detail on a Long Branch casing, although perhaps the early ones were made this way. Stencollector will know. Made the parts self indexing, rather than depending on a jig for alignment.

 

[stencollector]

I have not seen this detail on a Long Branch casing, although perhaps the early ones were made this way. Stencollector will know. Made the parts self indexing, rather than depending on a jig for alignment.

Yes, the early sten cases used the same indexing hole for the rear sight. It wasn't obvious because the pin on the rear sight went in and flush with the inside of the tube.

Another interesting variation (interesting to sten geeks only I suppose) on some early LB's is that you can find them where the L slots for the end cap have been cut the opposite way, so that you have to turn the end cap counterclockwise to lock it.

Navyshooter: Your photo of the old cut off tube almost looks like they welded plates into the bottom of the case. One would have to wonder why they even removed that metal in the first place. I have seen this done to the second type rolled stens, where the sideplates were the same sheet of metal as the body tube. But your gun does not have that trait.

 

[tiriaq]

I have seen one OL LongBranch with the reversed notches. Its odd that they did this, seeing as the were working from UK drawings. Wonder if it was deliberate or accidental?

 

[NavyShooter]

Well, picked up my "tube" today....15" of 1.5" mechanical tubing with .100 walls.

Cost: $10, running total so far $302

Anyone know a source for 12 Ga steel? The local suppliers only have 1/8"....

Just a note about materials, I'm still awaiting the barrel, which (if the chunk I get is long enough) will make 3 barrels, or maybe 1 restricted length, one non-restricted...looks like that chunk of barrel will run me around $200....so about $66 per barrel.

NS

 

[Claven2]

FYI, .100 would be too think for the SAS bolt. You need .095" thickness (I have a bunch). If you're making your own bolt, not such a big deal.

 

[NavyShooter]

C2,

I'm, at this point, unable to source a SAS bolt. The 3 companies that I contacted for import all turned down the idea.

So, I'm down to making my own bolt, I guess...unless there's a possibility of another source?

I've got a chunk of steel that I was planning to use for my bolt, and I have a set of rough sketches with sizes/dimensions that I thought I'd try out. (Got them from tri)

I'm a novice machinist (I did the first term of my apprentice course 15 years ago before dropping out to join the Navy as an electronics tech) so my skill set is at the "entry" or "hobby" level.

I think if I'm able to make a go of this with my skills, it should be an indication that anyone else can too.

Thoughts/advice?

NS

 

[NavyShooter]

*shrug*

Steel is pretty cheap.

Mistakes are easy to make.

Time this evening, 2:15, mucking about with the lathe (setups and aligning things and such)

Total time now 9:20

NS

 

[Suputin]

I've got a chunk of steel that I was planning to use for my bolt, and I have a set of rough sketches with sizes/dimensions that I thought I'd try out.

One thing I discovered fairly quickly is there is no substitute for a 3D rendering of your sketches. Things often look very different in 3D than they did in your head or on a napkin.

Also a 3D rendering shows how all the parts/features will fit together or not as may be the case.

I suggest you go download the Solidworks 2006 off a bit torrent site. Or if you want, send me the sketches and I'll solid model them for you. Solid modeling becomes addictive. I model even the simplest parts now.

 

[NavyShooter]

Hmmm....

Depending on how things go here, I might just take you up on that tubing....

I've just added another 3 hours to my project time, to a total of 12:20, and spent that time turning a piece of 1.5" steel down to the right diameter of the bolt, facing it nicely, then breaking a #44 drill bit inside as I was trying to drill out the firing pin hole from the front.

After breaking it, I decided to carry on and use this as a learner project, see where I go with things....and I'm trying to setup the bolt body in the 4-jaw to drill it for the guide-rod holes. It's rather hard trying to get an offset piece setup in a 4-jaw....

*sigh*

Learning vessel #1, well in progress....

NS