My STEN project...
- Thread starter NavyShooter
- Start date
NavyShooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- XMU Local .303
27"x1.2" OD blank of 9mm Barrel is in town awaiting my pickup. Life is good!
Also, a care package arrived for me with a 9MM reamer, just in time!
NavyShooter
Also, a care package arrived for me with a 9MM reamer, just in time!
NavyShooter
NavyShooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- XMU Local .303
Oh, here's my original task list, with updates:
1. Permission from CFO Office GRANTED
2. Collect parts COMPLETE
3. Acquire SAS-3 Sten Kit UNABLE (built my own, 95% complete)
4. Fabricate SAS Receiver Tube COMPLETE
5. Fabricate Mag-well 80% COMPLETE (welded, not finished)
6. Register Firearm with CFO IN PROGRESS
7. Manufacture Barrel/trunnion TRUNNION DONE, BARREL BLANK ACQUIRED
8. Weld trigger group to receiver tube COMPLETE
9. Assemble Firearm
10. Test-fire
11. Adjust as required
12. Apply metal finish (Parkerizing)
So, as you can see, my project is on the way, I'd say it's about 80-90% there.
Basically, another 10-15 hours of work and I'm good to go!
NS
1. Permission from CFO Office GRANTED
2. Collect parts COMPLETE
3. Acquire SAS-3 Sten Kit UNABLE (built my own, 95% complete)
4. Fabricate SAS Receiver Tube COMPLETE
5. Fabricate Mag-well 80% COMPLETE (welded, not finished)
6. Register Firearm with CFO IN PROGRESS
7. Manufacture Barrel/trunnion TRUNNION DONE, BARREL BLANK ACQUIRED
8. Weld trigger group to receiver tube COMPLETE
9. Assemble Firearm
10. Test-fire
11. Adjust as required
12. Apply metal finish (Parkerizing)
So, as you can see, my project is on the way, I'd say it's about 80-90% there.
Basically, another 10-15 hours of work and I'm good to go!
NS
NavyShooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- XMU Local .303
I have the form 804 signed as verified by the CFO, annotated at the bottom as being "Verified as being semi-automatic only."
I demonstrated the action to him with the bolt I built, and compared the FA bolt to the SA bolt (from the Dewat Sten) noting that the original Sten bolt is too large to even fit in the receiver.
We looked at the differences between the two receivers, noting the differnt hole sizes, the one on the SA Only receiver with the slot instead of the hole for the auto trip lever.
I will return with the project for him to verify once the firearm is complete.
One thing that he noted was the magazines, he stated that he preffered a better method than simply riveting them, and gave a recommendation or two down that front.
Progress is a good thing!
NS
I demonstrated the action to him with the bolt I built, and compared the FA bolt to the SA bolt (from the Dewat Sten) noting that the original Sten bolt is too large to even fit in the receiver.
We looked at the differences between the two receivers, noting the differnt hole sizes, the one on the SA Only receiver with the slot instead of the hole for the auto trip lever.
I will return with the project for him to verify once the firearm is complete.
One thing that he noted was the magazines, he stated that he preffered a better method than simply riveting them, and gave a recommendation or two down that front.
Progress is a good thing!
NS
NavyShooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- XMU Local .303
He said that it was too easy to remove the rivet.
My response was that basically, that showed the intent to break the law right there, an my intent all along has been to follow the law.
I'm going to make the next magazine he sees from me somewhat more secure.
NS
My response was that basically, that showed the intent to break the law right there, an my intent all along has been to follow the law.
I'm going to make the next magazine he sees from me somewhat more secure.
NS
NavyShooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- XMU Local .303
Well,
Here I am, a few more hours into the project, and I believe, going down my list of things to finish up, this is all that remains:
1. Firing pin
2. Firing pin retaining pin/hole
3. Magazine Catch installation
4. Barrel Sleeve Lock installation
5. Apply appropriate finish to metal
Add another 6:45 hours to my total, and I'm now up to 91:00
Add the cost of the barrel blank, and I'm up to $553, however, I have enough barrel remaining to make another 2 Stens.
Tonight I learned how to ream a 9mm chamber. I did the initial bit by turning the headstock by hand, and that worked OK, but applying power and slowly feeding the reamer in, and cleaning every .050 or so, that was the key. I got a feel for when the reamer bit again when I re-inserted it, and it was amazing, I was able to gauge the depths of my cuts to within .001" for every .050" I went in.
As an aside, if you place a collectable mug on the table behind you when you're working on your lathe, don't lean back against that table....it gets messy fast when you dump a glass mug on the concrete floor...
Anyhow, with paperwork on its way, my build is progressing quite well, and I expect to post some pictures up for folks to enjoy tomorrow.
NS
Here I am, a few more hours into the project, and I believe, going down my list of things to finish up, this is all that remains:
1. Firing pin
2. Firing pin retaining pin/hole
3. Magazine Catch installation
4. Barrel Sleeve Lock installation
5. Apply appropriate finish to metal
Add another 6:45 hours to my total, and I'm now up to 91:00
Add the cost of the barrel blank, and I'm up to $553, however, I have enough barrel remaining to make another 2 Stens.
Tonight I learned how to ream a 9mm chamber. I did the initial bit by turning the headstock by hand, and that worked OK, but applying power and slowly feeding the reamer in, and cleaning every .050 or so, that was the key. I got a feel for when the reamer bit again when I re-inserted it, and it was amazing, I was able to gauge the depths of my cuts to within .001" for every .050" I went in.
As an aside, if you place a collectable mug on the table behind you when you're working on your lathe, don't lean back against that table....it gets messy fast when you dump a glass mug on the concrete floor...
Anyhow, with paperwork on its way, my build is progressing quite well, and I expect to post some pictures up for folks to enjoy tomorrow.
NS
NavyShooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- XMU Local .303
1. Permission from CFO Office GRANTED
2. Collect parts COMPLETE
3. Acquire SAS-3 Sten Kit UNABLE (built my own, 95% complete)
4. Fabricate SAS Receiver Tube COMPLETE
5. Fabricate Mag-well COMPLETE
6. Register Firearm with CFO AWAITING CERTIFICATE
7. Manufacture Barrel/trunnion COMPLETE
8. Weld trigger group to receiver tube COMPLETE
9. Assemble Firearm COMPLETE (minus front sight)
10. Test-fire
11. Adjust as required
12. Apply metal finish (Parkerizing)
And here's the latest photos:
Building my new extractor
The welding job...
Welding the extractor into place:
Tack-welded in place
My stamping jo
And, the serial number:
Some more photos since then, including building the barrel, but those will follow.
NS
2. Collect parts COMPLETE
3. Acquire SAS-3 Sten Kit UNABLE (built my own, 95% complete)
4. Fabricate SAS Receiver Tube COMPLETE
5. Fabricate Mag-well COMPLETE
6. Register Firearm with CFO AWAITING CERTIFICATE
7. Manufacture Barrel/trunnion COMPLETE
8. Weld trigger group to receiver tube COMPLETE
9. Assemble Firearm COMPLETE (minus front sight)
10. Test-fire
11. Adjust as required
12. Apply metal finish (Parkerizing)
And here's the latest photos:
Building my new extractor
The welding job...
Welding the extractor into place:
Tack-welded in place
My stamping jo
And, the serial number:
Some more photos since then, including building the barrel, but those will follow.
NS
NavyShooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- XMU Local .303
Spoke with Andre today and offered to send it in while I'm overseas, and he said that the way ahead is to wait for my certificate, and then the Lab may request to see my gun. He said that the FRT people had just called him this morning about my file, so things are going ahead.
NS
NS
NavyShooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- XMU Local .303
Spoke with Angela(?) at the CFR today, and they'd been delaying on issuing my certificate because they didn't know why I wanted to have the firearm....reply "Target Shooting"....
Paperwork should be done by the end of the week and on the way to me!
NS
Paperwork should be done by the end of the week and on the way to me!
NS
Update!
This morning the gun got parkerized. It looks nice except that some of the OA welds wouldn't park - guess I should have used a different rod? It's just a cosmetic thing tough. On the whole it looks pretty good.
Had the now registered completed Sten out to the range today to make holes in paper & test function.
It was a partial success. SKSCanuck was there with me and shot some video of the event, so hopefully that will be up soon.
The gun does go Bang and is definitely a firearm. It also shoots to point of aim at 25 yards.
Bad news is I only got to run about 10 rounds trough her, pretty much as a single-shot. The issue is that the SAS3 bolt geometry is all wrong inside the extractor cut, so the extractor is not camming over the casing rims. For each shot, I had to manually depress the back of the extractor and shove the bolt forward so that I could get the pin to hit the primers.
I had two extractors available. On one I filed the bevel to a more gentle angle, but tht was not enough to solve the issue.
I took a closer look tonight and think I have solved the problem. Got some metal stock and made a small shim. I epoxied the shim into the extractor cutout in the bolt body so that the extractor now sits up higher at the proper angle, and also the back of the extractor is no longer fouling on the tube body when cocking. Hopefully I can get out again next week to give her another go. It is feeding drill rounds now though - that's a good sign IMHO.
This morning the gun got parkerized. It looks nice except that some of the OA welds wouldn't park - guess I should have used a different rod? It's just a cosmetic thing tough. On the whole it looks pretty good.
Had the now registered completed Sten out to the range today to make holes in paper & test function.
It was a partial success. SKSCanuck was there with me and shot some video of the event, so hopefully that will be up soon.
The gun does go Bang and is definitely a firearm. It also shoots to point of aim at 25 yards.
Bad news is I only got to run about 10 rounds trough her, pretty much as a single-shot. The issue is that the SAS3 bolt geometry is all wrong inside the extractor cut, so the extractor is not camming over the casing rims. For each shot, I had to manually depress the back of the extractor and shove the bolt forward so that I could get the pin to hit the primers.
I had two extractors available. On one I filed the bevel to a more gentle angle, but tht was not enough to solve the issue.
I took a closer look tonight and think I have solved the problem. Got some metal stock and made a small shim. I epoxied the shim into the extractor cutout in the bolt body so that the extractor now sits up higher at the proper angle, and also the back of the extractor is no longer fouling on the tube body when cocking. Hopefully I can get out again next week to give her another go. It is feeding drill rounds now though - that's a good sign IMHO.
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stencollector
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
I had the same problem with my SAS bolt when I first built it and was cycling dummy rounds. Rather than mess with the extractor, I removed a bit of material from the face of the bolt where the feedhorns would have been so the base of the round would slide straight across. Since there is no protruding firing pin, the round can do this. If, for some reason, the firing pin was sticking forward (ie firing pin carboned up or the hammer following the bolt home) then the round catches up and the gun jams, preventing any double taps.
NavyShooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- XMU Local .303
Ok,
So if mine correctly cycles drill rounds (racking the bolt at a "rapid" speed") is that a good sign?
Recall, I built my own bolt, and because I frigged up one of the cuts, I had to also build my own extractor too!
NS
So if mine correctly cycles drill rounds (racking the bolt at a "rapid" speed") is that a good sign?
Recall, I built my own bolt, and because I frigged up one of the cuts, I had to also build my own extractor too!
NS
Reliable feeding of dummy rounds is a really good sign!
Incidentally, if a brass "bullet" is turned that will go all the way back to the base of the cartridge case, with a hole drilled through it, primers can be fired to test ignition, as well as feed.
Incidentally, if a brass "bullet" is turned that will go all the way back to the base of the cartridge case, with a hole drilled through it, primers can be fired to test ignition, as well as feed.
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It would seem that Stencollector's SAS project was the first homemade semi auto Sten to be accepted, FaRTed and registered in this country. The SAS design had previously been accepted as semi auto only by the US BATFE. That is, it was recognized as a seriously semi auto design. This increased the likelihood of the design being accepted. Because a FaRT number for the SAS design has been issued, registration of other SAS Stens has been facilitated.
It is possible that an open bolt design might be accepted. After all, the SSD BD-38 and BD-3008 are open bolt and have been approved. Stencollector's gun preceded these, however.
It has been reported that an application to register an open bolt semi auto Sten has been submitted. To date, there has been no news of the gun being registered and a FaRT entry created.
It is possible that an open bolt design might be accepted. After all, the SSD BD-38 and BD-3008 are open bolt and have been approved. Stencollector's gun preceded these, however.
It has been reported that an application to register an open bolt semi auto Sten has been submitted. To date, there has been no news of the gun being registered and a FaRT entry created.
stencollector
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
In the US, the BATF has put the kaibosh on open bolt guns, as they are too easy to modify to full auto. So, companies started to modify gun parts kits by making new receivers which would not accept the full auto components, and would fire from a closed bolt.
In the US, the BATF considers the 12" long 1-1/2 diameter tube on the sten to be the receiver. So companies started making thicker tubes with features that would accept only the closed bolt designed by that company. They were sold in kits which had to be combined with a cut up parts kit to make the gun.
Someone offered to sell me one of these kits about 4 years back, and I built it into a gun expecting that it would be accepted here in Canada as a "not easily converted to full auto" homebuilt gun. Turns out that in Canada, the RCMP believe the magwell is the gun, so I had to make a new one of those too.
It took almost 3 years to finally get mine approved by the CFC/RCMP and now other guys are following in my footsteps cause the path is already made. As can be seen, by following this path, guys are getting their certificates for these guns in a matter of weeks, instead of years. One other forum member has tried to do it the easy way by making open bolt versions and merely making slight modifications to the trigger mech or the bolt. I suspect he will be waiting years, if ever, before he gets a registration cert. Good luck to him though, because if his gets through, then many others of us will likely follow suit.
Legally, there is no outright ban on open bolt guns here in Canada, and certain open bolt guns do exist on the Cdn market (ie the sterling mk4 PC or the BD3008, both are only restricted due to length), so the only reason why guys are going closed bolt on their stens here in Canada is because that is what has been accepted by the CFC.
Of course, YMMV.
Edited to add that Tiraq has said the same thing as me in many less words, and obviously in better time..
Stencollector has mentionned that there are different rulings over what constitutes the legal receiver of a firearm. There is a determination that for Sten type firearms, the magazine housing is the receiver. In the US, a demilitarized receiver can be welded back together, or parts of the receiver can be reused, and the resulting receiver is considered to be new manufacture. In Canada, if a cut receiver, or part of the receiver, is reused, the resulting receiver is considered to be a restored original, and is considered to be in the same class that it was originally. Use part, or all of a Sten receiver, and the resulting gun will be considered to be an unregisterable 12(2) or 12(3). This is why Stencollector, Claven2 and NavyShooter made new magazine housings, and documented the manufacture in photographs.
NavyShooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- XMU Local .303
I should have a mill up and running shortly after CFSAC (late Sept/early Oct) so building things will become....easier....and more accurate.
I may have a go at building another bolt too...not that this one isn't serviceable, but to see how much quicker #2 would be to build with a real machine.
The one I built took about 25 hours on my Sherline. I would expect that with a full-size machine, I can probably cut that by about 80%.
NS
I may have a go at building another bolt too...not that this one isn't serviceable, but to see how much quicker #2 would be to build with a real machine.
The one I built took about 25 hours on my Sherline. I would expect that with a full-size machine, I can probably cut that by about 80%.
NS
