Here's something I've been working on for awhile, and will update as I learn more.
I've posted on here quite a bit about how I like the SIG P229. Great gun:
Some people (like me) like how it looks, some don't. But it shoots like this, and that is what really makes you love these guns. It shoots like this for me, and it will for you too. These are very easy, forgiving guns to operate.
I liked the 229 so much, I got a second one. One of them was my girlfriend's gun for awhile... until she went back to Beretta. Frankly I'm glad she did
Now I got two!
So when I heard that we could get the single-stack P239 in Canada.. I thought "must... have... that":
How does it shoot... have a look at this. Great accuracy with these SIGs:
Then someone was advertising a SIG 228 slide in the EE. I've always wanted a 228. They are tough to get these days (especially restricted ones), so I'm thinking... maybe I can build a mutant Norc/SIG???
So I order up an NP-34 from Marstar:
Actually, the Norinco seems like a pretty decent gun for $350. The only things that seem a little wonky are... the finish is a little rough, the grips feel plasticy and a bit slippery, and the mag it comes with seems to have that "bullet nose down" problem, although that could sort itself out with use.
But I bought the Norc to serve as the platform for my faux 228... so how is that coming along? Here it is with the SIG slide and SIG grips:
A couple of other things about the Norc... the trigger is a solid block - not the "skeletonized" (hollow) trigger that the SIGs have. I'm not sure what a 1980s SIG 228 would have. The current SIGs are all hollow though. Also, the Norc trigger is "ribbed" (ridges) on the front. I am thinking of getting a SIG trigger. One other thing, the Norc takedown lever is a copy of the old-style SIG one, it it looks a little weird. I could try and replace that as well.
Beside a 229:
All my SIGs together:
So... the question comes up... what is the difference between all these guns. Well, guess what I took some pics
Everybody talks about the 228 (and NP-34) having a stamped steel slide, and the 229 (and 239) have a milled slide. You can see that here. You can also see that the NP-34 is a very faithful copy of the 228. The 239 slide is, as far as I can tell, just a slightly skinner, slightly smaller 229 slide.
NP-34, 228, 229, 239:
239, 229, 228, NP-34:
This shot shows the internal vs. external extractor issue that I talk about below.
239, 229, 228, NP-34. You can see the German proofmarks on the 228 slide (underside front). It has what looks like a "pineapple", the "Eagle over N" and then "KG", which I am guessing means "1996". The 229 and 239 slide are made in New Hampshire. The NP-34 is obviously from China.
NP-34, 228, 229, 239:
I believe most of the 228 will have the "contrast"-style sights like this one (third from left). Norinco is shipping theirs with 3-dot sight. The 229 and 239 in this pic have "SIGlite night sights". This pic also gives a good idea of the flare-out on the 229 slide (second from left) compared to the 228 (next one to the right):
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One of the big differences... the 228 (and NP-34) have an internal extractor. You can see that very clearly in this right side shot.
SIG also went for the "half" cocking serations on the 229... and now on the 239TAC as well. The 239TAC has front coclking serations as well, like the Elite models. Many of the SIG, like 226, still use the full cocking serations like the 228 and NP-34 in this photo.
The Norc barrel actually looks realy good. It is the one in the middle here. 229 on the left, 239 on the right:
Another difference is that the SIG 229 slide is thicker. It flares out toward the bottom. The 228/NP-34 slide is totally straight-walled. This is a 229 and NP-34 side by side:
The 239 slide is also straight-walled to maintain its flat skinny feel. Seen here with a 229:
The 229 and 239 are internally quite similar...
The 239 is a bit of a different ballgame though, with its full lenth rails:
This is the NP-34 mostly disassembled. Note the "old-style" trigger bar spring (the long curved one with hooks at either end):
Some of the internal NP-34 components are coated with some kind of red stuff. I'm not sure what that is about:
One thing the NP-34 does is... the locking block bevels up to the top of the rail. I guess this is to provide more support. I have shot the bejesus out of the SIG right next to it and never had any problems. Time will tell how the Norc holds up. I bought it with full knowledge of problems others have had in the past:
O.k., that is pic overkill for now, but I'll post some more ideas later.
I've posted on here quite a bit about how I like the SIG P229. Great gun:
Some people (like me) like how it looks, some don't. But it shoots like this, and that is what really makes you love these guns. It shoots like this for me, and it will for you too. These are very easy, forgiving guns to operate.
I liked the 229 so much, I got a second one. One of them was my girlfriend's gun for awhile... until she went back to Beretta. Frankly I'm glad she did
Now I got two!
So when I heard that we could get the single-stack P239 in Canada.. I thought "must... have... that":
How does it shoot... have a look at this. Great accuracy with these SIGs:
Then someone was advertising a SIG 228 slide in the EE. I've always wanted a 228. They are tough to get these days (especially restricted ones), so I'm thinking... maybe I can build a mutant Norc/SIG???
So I order up an NP-34 from Marstar:
Actually, the Norinco seems like a pretty decent gun for $350. The only things that seem a little wonky are... the finish is a little rough, the grips feel plasticy and a bit slippery, and the mag it comes with seems to have that "bullet nose down" problem, although that could sort itself out with use.
But I bought the Norc to serve as the platform for my faux 228... so how is that coming along? Here it is with the SIG slide and SIG grips:
A couple of other things about the Norc... the trigger is a solid block - not the "skeletonized" (hollow) trigger that the SIGs have. I'm not sure what a 1980s SIG 228 would have. The current SIGs are all hollow though. Also, the Norc trigger is "ribbed" (ridges) on the front. I am thinking of getting a SIG trigger. One other thing, the Norc takedown lever is a copy of the old-style SIG one, it it looks a little weird. I could try and replace that as well.
Beside a 229:
All my SIGs together:
So... the question comes up... what is the difference between all these guns. Well, guess what I took some pics
Everybody talks about the 228 (and NP-34) having a stamped steel slide, and the 229 (and 239) have a milled slide. You can see that here. You can also see that the NP-34 is a very faithful copy of the 228. The 239 slide is, as far as I can tell, just a slightly skinner, slightly smaller 229 slide.
NP-34, 228, 229, 239:
239, 229, 228, NP-34:
This shot shows the internal vs. external extractor issue that I talk about below.
239, 229, 228, NP-34. You can see the German proofmarks on the 228 slide (underside front). It has what looks like a "pineapple", the "Eagle over N" and then "KG", which I am guessing means "1996". The 229 and 239 slide are made in New Hampshire. The NP-34 is obviously from China.
NP-34, 228, 229, 239:
I believe most of the 228 will have the "contrast"-style sights like this one (third from left). Norinco is shipping theirs with 3-dot sight. The 229 and 239 in this pic have "SIGlite night sights". This pic also gives a good idea of the flare-out on the 229 slide (second from left) compared to the 228 (next one to the right):
One of the big differences... the 228 (and NP-34) have an internal extractor. You can see that very clearly in this right side shot.
SIG also went for the "half" cocking serations on the 229... and now on the 239TAC as well. The 239TAC has front coclking serations as well, like the Elite models. Many of the SIG, like 226, still use the full cocking serations like the 228 and NP-34 in this photo.
The Norc barrel actually looks realy good. It is the one in the middle here. 229 on the left, 239 on the right:
Another difference is that the SIG 229 slide is thicker. It flares out toward the bottom. The 228/NP-34 slide is totally straight-walled. This is a 229 and NP-34 side by side:
The 239 slide is also straight-walled to maintain its flat skinny feel. Seen here with a 229:
The 229 and 239 are internally quite similar...
The 239 is a bit of a different ballgame though, with its full lenth rails:
This is the NP-34 mostly disassembled. Note the "old-style" trigger bar spring (the long curved one with hooks at either end):
Some of the internal NP-34 components are coated with some kind of red stuff. I'm not sure what that is about:
One thing the NP-34 does is... the locking block bevels up to the top of the rail. I guess this is to provide more support. I have shot the bejesus out of the SIG right next to it and never had any problems. Time will tell how the Norc holds up. I bought it with full knowledge of problems others have had in the past:
O.k., that is pic overkill for now, but I'll post some more ideas later.
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The 239 and the Norc arrived at basically the same time, one day after another last week (Thursday and Friday), and I decided to take just one new gun to the range at a time. I will be shooting the Norc tomorrow and/or Sunday, and I will let you guys know how it shoots. Eventually I will post how it shoots with and without the 228 slide... I am expecting there to be little or no difference. I should have some targets posted by tomorrow.
