Native led "ban" on moose hunting in BC expanded...

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1899 said:
45ACPKING - very on point with your comment that “the debt is not paid yet”. What exactly do you think needs to be done to pay the debt? That’s the real issue here. The vast majority of Canadians are expected to pay this debt to a small portion of the population but have no say in the matter.

And an equally important question that I have NEVER heard asked is this: Aboriginal Rights are not tied to any reciporical obligations or responsibilities. Why is this so?
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It's a complex issue, one I don't have the answers for but no I do no believe it's fair that every day hard working taxpaying canadian citizens should have to pay for the crown's mistake. I do not support the dual justice system that affords some indigenous people the right to community justice. That's hawgwash and all canadians should face the same justice system, indigenous or otherwise. I do believe that every single corporate entity in this province is responsiible for that debt, from forestry to fishing to mining to agriculture to gas and oil exploration. Some bands are hammering out deals with large corporations that greatly benefit thier communities in societal gain via skilled trades and higher education being made possible by financial gain.
I think once bands sign these types of deals for the rights to profit from the resources being harvested, the taxpayer should be 100% off the hook. However, anywhere politicians and corporations have damaged the environment .... or allowed the public to damage the environment, Indigenous peoples Must be afforded the ability to hold them financially to task. I use the example of the west coast salmon fishery both offshore and in many of our major rivers. Years ago everyone was screaming about the demise of fraser salmon from over fishing by the natives. It was so religioulsy believed to be "thier fault" that it caused confrontations in the fraser valley. I have video of guns drawn on both sides and the scene interupted by trucks of LEO by the aggazis/rosedale bridge LOL
but in the end we all know that over fishing and fish farming coupled with poor stream quality from interior agriculture and logging practices is what is killing our once great rivers. I still remember what a 25pound thompson river steelhead looks like but the memory is getting foggy now it's been that long.

anyhow, I'm easily sidetracked today. I don't have the answers but negativety towards all aboriginal people just because some guys here can't go moose hunting is something that i've been around this site long enough to speak out against. Whether it makes me unpopular or not.
 
frabill said:
45acpking you should have to buy tags like the rest of us. Wanna be equal? Buy some damn tags. Who cares what rights you have, spend some cash and buy some tags even if you don't need to. Set an example.

"I'm metis and I buy tags and put in for priority on LEH hunts. If I don't get drawn I won't hunt. We all need to stand up and do what's right to conserve wildlife."

But nah you would never do that. Neither would any other native person. Keep preaching but until you hunt like the settlers you're nothing but a hypocrite.
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do you read my posts? or do you just see the word Metis and spout off ?

I purchase tags every year and a BC hunting license every year since I was 28 years old. I'm 49
I have been a member of BCWF since I was 20? maybe 25 actually. I've been a paid member of 2 different river fishing clubs since I was 20. I've been a member of the sheep society for over 20 years. I've donated time and money to many salmon enhancement projects, river clean ups and I could go on and on.
As I have said countless times here.... in BC my metis status means diddly. My dad is metis, makes me metis and the BC metis community identifies me as metis...... and that is where it ends. I get zero tax breaks nor do I receive any benefits or privledges. I can hunt migratory game birds all year IF I get a metis harvesters card..... that's it.
So, let me be very very clear so there is no confusion here.....my life as a Canadian citizen is exactly the same as every other Non indigenous canadian. I work, pay taxes, I got no special breaks to start my business though as a metis they were availlable to me..... I pay the same taxes and benefits premiums as anyone else.
I take the same quotas and bag limits as everyone else.
The only difference for me is I have permission from two different BC band councils to harvest within thier territories. This does not mean Harvest outside the wildlife act it just means that if I have a tag and there is a valid season.... I have unfettered access to those territories. I believe that being metis had a part in that but I also respect indigenous people and thier lands/traditions so could be that too.
 
45ACPKING said:
It's a complex issue, one I don't have the answers for but no I do no believe it's fair that every day hard working taxpaying canadian citizens should have to pay for the crown's mistake. I do not support the dual justice system that affords some indigenous people the right to community justice. That's hawgwash and all canadians should face the same justice system, indigenous or otherwise. I do believe that every single corporate entity in this province is responsiible for that debt, from forestry to fishing to mining to agriculture to gas and oil exploration. Some bands are hammering out deals with large corporations that greatly benefit thier communities in societal gain via skilled trades and higher education being made possible by financial gain.
I think once bands sign these types of deals for the rights to profit from the resources being harvested, the taxpayer should be 100% off the hook. However, anywhere politicians and corporations have damaged the environment .... or allowed the public to damage the environment, Indigenous peoples Must be afforded the ability to hold them financially to task. I use the example of the west coast salmon fishery both offshore and in many of our major rivers. Years ago everyone was screaming about the demise of fraser salmon from over fishing by the natives. It was so religioulsy believed to be "thier fault" that it caused confrontations in the fraser valley. I have video of guns drawn on both sides and the scene interupted by trucks of LEO by the aggazis/rosedale bridge LOL
but in the end we all know that over fishing and fish farming coupled with poor stream quality from interior agriculture and logging practices is what is killing our once great rivers. I still remember what a 25pound thompson river steelhead looks like but the memory is getting foggy now it's been that long.

anyhow, I'm easily sidetracked today. I don't have the answers but negativety towards all aboriginal people just because some guys here can't go moose hunting is something that i've been around this site long enough to speak out against. Whether it makes me unpopular or not.
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45acpking with the head fake side step!

Me thinks you're about to get tackled before the end zone man.
 
45ACPKING - we agree on many things, but that’s not the direction we are heading in - in fact we are heading towards even more divisions.
 
frabill said:
Yup you're right. You completely ignored everything in my post about setting the right example. But nahhhh.
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if the example you speaking of is to post like you have no reading comprehension........ nah brahh .... you got that covered for the rest of us.
but thanx anyways.
 
1899 said:
45ACPKING - we agree on many things, but that’s not the direction we are heading in - in fact we are heading towards even more divisions.
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well.... I'm not here trying to perpetrate more of those divisions.
I decided a couple years ago when i see folks beaking off (not speaking about you) in this hunting forum with negative comments about natives that have no business being in the discussion, I'm not going to sit silent. I was raised "white" but always taught to respect aboriginal people. In my adult understanding of my Metis/cree father's history and his heritage as a descendant of one of canada's treaty signing chief's (chief little hunter/treaty 6) ..... it is bestowed upon me to never forget that heritage and to honor it in what ways I can. To see people here spit out the word native like a swear word bothers me. Some of my closest friends and people I look up to are natives and they aren't the reason some guys here are mad about moose hunting restrictions LOL

I have lived a life like any other non aboriginal canadian in every single facet of my life since i was born till today. Paid all the same dues and blood and sweat to get to where I am today. I expect nothing from the canadian tax payer or the government outside of the regular everday services we all work and pay for. I should also note that because I chose to marry a non aboriginal .... a landed immigrant even!! ..... my children do not receive metis status. Dies with me for whatever it was worth LOL
 
bearkilr said:
No moose ticks in the areas I'm speaking of and there's plenty of ideal habitat and an abundant food source. White poplar and willow don't get "harvested".
The northern FN always play the caribou blame game. One year the MB FN fly into SK and shoot up hundreds, next year the SK FN come into MB. That news article doesn't hold much water for me, I know the inside story.

And here's what I was talking about. Read this clip from the article.
This year’s alarming hunt comes at a time when game, including caribou, which traditionally sustained northern First Nations, is under more stress than anytime in the past. The twin pressures of climate change and industrial development are issues on which First Nations are actively lobbying governments, and in the meantime, they have to save the herds if they can, Nepinak said.

There is no industrial development up there. It's tundra.

We need to make this about conservation of the animals, not a blame game. If the numbers of any given species are so low that it's in danger of disappearing from that area, then the hunt needs to be closed for everyone. The problem is that with many treaties, if the area is closed, it can only be reopened with first nations consent, which is the reason many provincial governments are reluctant to close an area for all. I'm not sure if this is the case in BC however, but it is in the prairie provinces, different treaties.
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Thanks for the correction BK. I was thinking in terms of SE Manitoba where the population has plummeted.

And thanks for the background on the treaties, it's a complicated world and you're correct in that boosting the population is paramount.
 
frabill said:
Hahahaha hahahahaha hahahaha haha haha hah


I'll never let natives decide what and when I hunt. I have access to 500+ acres on land we own outright. Never gonna happen.


Also the ndp are gone next year. Ucp won't let natives control crown land.
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look up c262 private property no more exist ....
 
I work with natives all the time, I love hearing the storries of how their boats would take 300, 400, sometimes 500 salmon a day....every day to sell to the cannery. But now because of the white guy there is no more salmon.
How they would poison the creeks sothe salmon won't go up to spawn so they can get them all in their nets.
Seen them bring in deer that they caught swimming between island, put a rope around their neck an dragged it with the boat until it drowned.
Shooting black ducks off their nesting grounds in the spring by the thousands, bring them back, some come get some, most of them sit in a fish tote on the dock to rot and end up in the land fill.
Stringing gill nets across the sockey creeks that are no go zones for even anglers.
Long lineing halibut. We have a size limit they take 200 pounders 8 and 10 at a time.
When they bring in their food fish, they take the sockeye.....but that's all they will eat. Totes...probably 300 to 600 depending on the year, of pinks and coho go to the landfill.
Where I moose hunt I see the trucks out at night with asians in the passenger seat shooting bears, east indians in the passenger seat shooting moose. Guided hunts from Vancouver? Not sure.
Then they tell me that beyond this point is their grandfathers traditional trapping area and I can't go past there.
Ya....sure thing.
 
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Vladthepes said:
I will continue to use my rights as a Canadien (since 1624) no matter what!
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Speaking as a WASP Canadian that will put most of us doing our shooting solely on approved ranges and game preserves (priced high exclusively for the well to do) well within 10 years.
Hunting and fishing for wild game on crown land will be an exclusively aboriginal gig.
The only place non-aboriginals will be able to possess firearms is on a cfo approved range and uber expensive game preserves.
 
Diablo7101 said:
I work with natives all the time, I love hearing the storries of how their boats would take 300, 400, sometimes 500 salmon a day....every day to sell to the cannery. But now because of the white guy there is no more salmon.
How they would poison the creeks sothe salmon won't go up to spawn so they can get them all in their nets.
Seen them bring in deer that they caught swimming between island, put a rope around their neck an dragged it with the boat until it drowned.
Shooting black ducks off their nesting grounds in the spring by the thousands, bring them back, some come get some, most of them sit in a fish tote on the dock to rot and end up in the land fill.
Stringing gill nets across the sockey creeks that are no go zones for even anglers.
Long lineing halibut. We have a size limit they take 200 pounders 8 and 10 at a time.
When they bring in their food fish, they take the sockeye.....but that's all they will eat. Totes...probably 300 to 600 depending on the year, of pinks and coho go to the landfill.
Where I moose hunt I see the trucks out at night with asians in the passenger seat shooting bears, east indians in the passenger seat shooting moose. Guided hunts from Vancouver? Not sure.
Then they tell me that beyond this point is their grandfathers traditional trapping area and I can't go past there.
Ya....sure thing.
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It makes sense culturally as Hunting and gathering was, and it would seem still is, not the same as "fair chase" hunting.
 
torontogungal said:
Speaking as a WASP Canadian that will put most of us doing our shooting solely on approved ranges and game preserves (priced high exclusively for the well to do) well within 10 years.
Hunting and fishing for wild game on crown land will be an exclusively aboriginal gig.
The only place non-aboriginals will be able to possess firearms is on a cfo approved range and uber expensive game preserves.
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Once hunting is no longer a recognized activity, the why would anyone "need" a firearm in Canada crowd will be pretty loud.
Today we often hear politicians who are trying to come off as fair towards legal gun owners say that they recognize the legal right to hunting, collecting and target shooting..... they usually don't mention self defense even though it's legal.

Take away hunting access and the slope gets pretty slippery. I'm starting to think that anchoring gun rights(privileges) to the right to preserve life is the smart move.
 
Can-down said:
Once hunting is no longer a recognized activity, the why would anyone "need" a firearm in Canada crowd will be pretty loud.
Today we often hear politicians who are trying to come off as fair towards legal gun owners say that they recognize the legal right to hunting, collecting and target shooting..... they usually don't mention self defense even though it's legal.

Take away hunting access and the slope gets pretty slippery. I'm starting to think that anchoring gun rights(privileges) to the right to preserve life is the smart move.
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Sure but how are we going to make that into law?
Not one of the current mainstream political parties once elected would support that position.
The CPC might say as much before the election but political amnesia would kick in again the day after the election and gun owners would become mute and invisible to the CPC for another 4 years.
 
torontogungal said:
Sure but how are we going to make that into law?
Not one of the current mainstream political parties once elected would support that position.
The CPC might say as much before the election but political amnesia would kick in again the day after the election and gun owners would become mute and invisible to the CPC for another 4 years.
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Baby steps, led by strong women and senior citizens demanding the de decriminalization of human on human self defense tools.
Start with kubotans, pepper spray, tazers and eventually handguns.

It's hard to imagine going straight to CCW firearms but Pepper Spray is a good start.
 
A lengthy and monotonous thread for sure.
A lot of very valid points and opinions for sure, a number of heated rhetoric responses given in anger, not so valid.

Without stating my opinion nor expressing my personal opinions I will say this, as much as people as chirp about what needs to get done or what they think they need to do in response, there is really only one thing to do.
We have to follow the process, the only process we really have and that is to put people in positions politically and stand together as voters. If that group proves unworthy then just continue the fight until something changes.
Most people on this website represent a HUGE majority of voter strength. It's not ideal but that's all we have.
Firing off threads on the internet at most does NOTHING except make some people feel better, the least, probably get banned from here.

Just my 2 cents.
 
:puke: “Baby steps”
Reminds me of that nauseating fall of 2015 mantra on here by the throng of CPC shills trying to force feed us c42.
I’m going to vote CPC.
Are you allowed to take a barf bag into the ballot booth?
I’ll try not to get any on my shoes.
 
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