- Location
- New Brunswick
Well said.
Nature of Things: Coywolf
- Thread starter wgamble89
- Start date
Well said.
Yep. I showed my bud your post who I get a lot of our meat from and he said to tell you if you lost a couple hundred lambs and a dozen or so calves over a few years due to them like he did you would think totally differently. But to each their own.
I am well aware of it. Sheep farming/herding in Newfoundland took a big hit from coyotes. They're opportunistic predators, what did we expect them to do? Lay down with the lambs? So, you respond accordingly with legal, humane methods of predator control. Some people might develop a "hatred" for an animal that is simply doing what it is biologically coded to do, but that's not me. Sorry. I've had loved ones in moose-vehicle accidents, but I don't have a 'hate on' for moose either.
Like I said you have your opinion and I have mine. I have never seen anyone here chase them or run them over with snow machines and I would be very suprised if too many of those in the pic were either. We just don't have the open spaces to do it even if it wasw an option. You can use all the legal, humane methods of predator control you have available and you are still going to lose live stock here since they already took care of the deer and rabbits. They are in the same group as a rat to me. When you find a method that works please let us know since in 30 plus years of trying we are still no further ahead on the farms. Last year he had orders for 225 lamb and ended up with 126 cannot stay in business too long like that. take care
Then consider yourself surprised.
The coyotes in the pic were killed in the Gisborne Lake area of southern Newfoundland, where there is plenty of open, barren ground.Much of the problem here is that here on the east coast, where you and I are, the farms and livestock operations are small and concentrated (as compared to elsewhere) and the coyote population is relatively new. That there would be a clash, and not a great deal of "know how" of how to deal with it, shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. The scale of agriculture and livestock in western Canada and through the midwest of the United States is far, far beyond what we have here. And coyotes have been present in those places for thousands of years, in much higher numbers than down east. And despite that fact, they somehow still have deer, rabbits, etc, and they still have livestock. Do coyotes still cause problems sometimes? Of course. And those guys deal with it because they have the knowledge and experience.
And, btw, rats wouldn't be the pest they are if it wasn't for human activity. So there is a little more to that story too.
Then consider yourself surprised.
Much of the problem here is that here on the east coast, where you and I are, the farms and livestock operations are small and concentrated (as compared to elsewhere) and the coyote population is relatively new. That there would be a clash, and not a great deal of "know how" of how to deal with it, shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. The scale of agriculture and livestock in western Canada and through the midwest of the United States is far, far beyond what we have here. And coyotes have been present in those places for thousands of years, in much higher numbers than down east. And despite that fact, they somehow still have deer, rabbits, etc, and they still have livestock. Do coyotes still cause problems sometimes? Of course. And those guys deal with it because they have the knowledge and experience.
And, btw, rats wouldn't be the pest they are if it wasn't for human activity. So there is a little more to that story too.
Have no idea with respect to how these were taken on the rock but if all run over these guys must be something else on a snow machine. Have you ever hunted and shot coyotes out west or in the US. I have a few times and they are like puppies compared to ours not to mention not very aggressive, Yes the farms what are left here are very small and the one I know too well is owned by a guy almost 80 who is just too far along in age to get to involved with any new methods other than traps and shooting them. I would be suprised if this year will not be the last for the cattle and sheep which is very sad. His sons were involved but after the old coyote showed up in the 80's now they want nothing to do with keeping it going and trying to deal with the coyotes. Since it is right on the margaree river they will probally sell it all off for high end building lots and I would probally do the same if in their shoes.
What you see in the photo is a couple of weekends' worth of "hunting". Largely chasing em down on a snow machine and using a firearm to finish the job.
Yes.
Many farms down east are marginal to start with, so when they started to take damage from coyotes, on top of the usual pressures, it hurt plenty. I know. There are hardly any sheep producers left here.
Agree on the farms. They could not afford to lose 6 lamb a year let alone 100's. Ok if you have hunted them in other areas were any over 50 pounds I bet not. My largest here was just over 60 and there has been some bigger taken.Bottom line they are a totally different dog in NS and the rock vs out west etc
What have they done to your caribou. I have not been over in 5 years but hear some sad stories if true.
I don't disagree that they are different animals. But then again, they also have many more coyotes, much more livestock, a much larger territory, and a much longer history of living alongside coyotes.
Between coyotes and black bears, caribou calf mortality is brutally high. Upwards of 80%. Again, just doing what nature tuned em to do. Do they need to be controlled? Absolutely. Do I think both species deserve fair chase? Yes.
- Location
- New Brunswick
The claims of huge coyotes are made here in New Brunswick as well. I don't mean to stir the pot but does anyone actually weigh the coyotes that they shoot or trap? I've been hunting and trapping coyotes for 20 years here in NB and have seen quite a few come through my fur shed but I could count on one hand how many were actually 50lbs or over. I've found the average weight, and this is over a sample of a couple hundred coyotes, to be about 35lbs. So IMO, 50 or 60 lb eastern coyotes are rare.
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
Wolves don't control coyote populations. There are plenty of both where I live and when push comes to shove, the coyote is much more adaptable than a wolf and populations rebound much faster. While wolves do kill coyotes and foxes if they come across them, it hasn't been my experience that they "hunt" them on a regular basis.
You are right in what you are saying but my point is the northeastern coyote in Newfoundland and Nova Scotia on average is 15-25% larger than its western cousins. Also I am finding over the last 30 years one hand would no longer take care of the males starting to show up at 50 pounds and the overall average now they say is closer to 38-40 not 35 anymore. The ones around homes are growing to be a good size , all different colors so who knows what they are breeding with .We had a group with a shepard running with them for a few years here and yes I weigh the ones I think are big. PEI I think had an almost 65 pounder not too long ago if I recall also rare yes but it is happening . Trappers here have hit them hard in the past few years since the bounty and yes I find the size down as a result.
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I was not intimating that wolves "hunt" coyotes. When they are both present in the same area coyote numbers will be stable. Not growing on a continual basis as seems to be the case in Eastern Canada. There are many ways wolves stabilise coyote numbers besides actually killing them.
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
Well, maybe that's the case in areas of BC but I have not seen that happen here in MB. The coyote and wolf population is higher than it's ever been in most areas here.
Wish I didnot lose my pics last year when I crashed since I had quite a few of these eastern coywolf 38 pounders saved that were taken. Surely however with your role in Predator Hunt Canada you must have some nice ones on file to share with the boys here.
That brings me to another question why is it the inital pick I posted changed stories from when it first appeared years back from newfoundland trapper takes 27 coyotes in 4 days to I quote "a couple of weekends' worth of "hunting". Largely chasing em down on a snow being run over with snow machines " especially and correct me if I am wrong you shared the story first ?? Any how just a couple of the 38 pounders I have left on file. First one was the rock, second 3 hours from me and cannot remember location of the third pic and of course last years 65.4 pound pei offering Cheers
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The average weight figure comes from the NL Department of Environment and Conservation, which has been collecting the data from the hundreds (probably thousands) of carcasses returned for the $25 fee they began paying several years ago.
But yeah, there are quite a few pics from across Canada on PHC. Not many from Newfoundland, but the guys from PEI have done very well this year, and it seems to me that a good proportion of the big ones are coming from there.
I didn't think it was me who first posted the pic, but I am sure you can find the thread and post if you want. It was March 2007, iirc, and I think there are at least 25 dogs in the photo.
Any how just a couple of the 38 pounders I have left on file. First one was the rock, second 3 hours from me and cannot remember location of the third pic and of course last years 65.4 pound pei offering Cheers
The guy in this pic does not do himself (or his yotes) any favours by standing well behind them to make them look bigger. (The old, lame guides' trick). They're respectable enough not to need that silliness.
I know the taxidermist in the photo personally. I would trust his attestation as to its weight. Another big PEI coyote.
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Some big boys here also and if you are not seeing any on the rock you will especially after that strange looking wolf being taken last year. I cannot see him or his type being alone or not breeding with coyotes
Just wondering on that initial pic if it is as originally posted a trapper to save caribou or run down with snow machines which I also think is not good if true
Yes sir on the pei one and that is the place you have to ask about big ones since I find the old trappers here keep their cards pretty close to their chest . Like any coyotes this year, OH a couple. Any big ones NO. Last thing they want is us guys with a 223 and fox pro's around.
Been good conversation. Thank you and take care
Sorry, away from the computer for a bit. I am guessing you are in an area of heavy agriculture, where we are primarily wilderness here with clear cuts in varying stages of regrowth. Our populations of anything will be more stable given the ecosystem is more diverse here. The point I was driving at was the Eastern Coyote is a still developing its niche in Eastern Canada. A niche that does not have to accommodate wolves. Hard to say where things will settle out as far as population densities go, but it will be different than their behaviour and population levels out west. In many eastern areas they may be the apex predator (PEI?). What will be their population control? Food is limitless etc. Their birth rate and generation time make for exponential growth. As an aside predator #'s are up in our area right now as well but not abnormally so.
Now a question: I do not see a lot of mange out west here but I do not hunt coyotes so not a lot of up close and personal looks. It seems to be that mange is common in eastern Canada. Is there a difference in incidence of this disease between eastern and western Canada? If the coyote population densities keep increasing a disease will get them at some point is my guess. The disease carrier might well be mange or something similar.
