Neck turners/precision reloading

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RunningRiver

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Ive been doing quite a bit of research recently because I was recently gifted a new 6.5prc rifle with a wicked scope, and I feel the need to really make the gift worthwhile by ensuring I only load ammo worth shooting out of it.

In my research I've come to the conclusion I need to make additions and changes to my reloading game, these include: using dies with bushings, annealing, improved scale for powder accuracy. I've been doing a bit of reading on neck turning, and I think I should go down this road as well. I've been eyeing the sinclair 4000 model - Is there a different brand for neck turning that I should be looking at?

In addition to what I listed in terms of process, is there anything I'm missing that I should consider?

I've been reloading for about 9 months and I really just want to be able to improve my handloads to a point that I am extremely pleased with the results.

Thank you for your help!
Ian
 
I like the PMA tool neck turners. One thing to make sure is to make sure you use the same manufacturer for both your expander mandrel and turning mandrel.
 
Thinking maybe to first buy something to verify concentricity - are your current load actually straight? Can not know unless you measure - and most other stuff sort of useless if you are producing crooked loads in the first place. Neck turning is about matching your brass with a bullet with your chamber - not a guarantee that is improves anything? If your brass has measure-able variance in neck thickness, reason to assume that variation runs clear down through body of the case - so, not likely a "cheap" or "quickie" solution? Once loading straight and neck thickness sorted out, then bushing dies become possible?

Scales - the whole point of "ladder test", "nodes", "optimal barrel time" is to find a load that up to .3 or .5 grain plus or minus does not make difference in your target groupings. Thinking anything giving you plus or minus 0.1 grain is about as good as it gets, unless you actually cut grains of powder to get finer weightings than that?
 
After much research many years ago.. I went with a 21st Century Neck Lathe.
They are not cheap, but I am more than happy with it.

My two cents.... spend your money on a quality scale (A&D with an Autotrickler for example) first.
 
I would look at consistent annealing before neck turning. When I'm ready for the next step in reloading, I'll be getting an AMP annealer. After that I would look into neck turning.
 
I have the Forster outside neck turning add on to the Forster case trimmer. I think it works well but I have never used anything else so I have no comparative experience
 
RangerPark said:
I would look at consistent annealing before neck turning. When I'm ready for the next step in reloading, I'll be getting an AMP annealer. After that I would look into neck turning.
Click to expand...

If you have a tight neck chamber, annealing without neck turning will get you nowhere...
 
For the best return on your dollar I would suggest ( if your goal is reduced neck run-out and bullet run-out) to size your cases with a Redding body die, size the neck with a Lee Collet die and seat your rounds with a Forster benchrest seating die. This will get you great #'s and unless your rifle is a bench gun you will not see any difference with more expensive dies. JMO
 
hunters home said:
For the best return on your dollar I would suggest ( if your goal is reduced neck run-out and bullet run-out) to size your cases with a Redding body die, size the neck with a Lee Collet die and seat your rounds with a Forster benchrest seating die. This will get you great #'s and unless your rifle is a bench gun you will not see any difference with more expensive dies. JMO
Click to expand...

That's what I do ^^^.

Concentricity is 0.000-0.0005" with the above set up. Alternatively a Lee 4 die set will produce 0.000 -0.001" run out.

I skim turn the necks so all are the same.

A good scale like the FX120i makes life easy weighing powder, bullets, cases, to 0.00 -0.02 grains.

Bushing dies leave any irregularities on the inside of the neck, not good for consistent bullet release, Lee collet is much better.

I get single digit ES using the propane torch and a drill motor, 8 seconds in the flame.

Sub 1 moa for 10 shots at distance is normal using these tools.
 
Bushing dies work best with custom rifles with tight neck chambers. In a off the shelf factory rifle it will have a larger SAAMI chamber and the case neck will expand more.

If you neck turn the brass it will expand even more in a SAAMI chamber and need to be reduced more in diameter when resized.

If the neck thickness varies more than .002 with a bushing die you will need to reduce the neck several thousanths more and use the expander.

The more you reduce the neck diameter with a bushing die the greater the chance of inducing neck runout. This is because the bushing floats, it can move from side to side and even tilt inducing neck runout.

You would be better off buying high quality brass with uniform wall thickness. And remember what benchrest shooters do to their brass and custom chambers will have little effect in a factory SAAMI chamber.

Bottom line, with a factory SAAMI chamber with a bushing die and neck turning you can end up working the neck more and not gain anything. There is a reason why so many reloader use a body die and a Lee collet die vs a bushing die.

 
1340 said:
Wouldn't neck turning also give consistent neck tension?
Click to expand...

Neck turning can give more consistent neck tension, and it also can cause donuts as the brass flows upward into the neck.

Many reloaders just skim turn the case necks and only take off the high spots.

You can also just check and sort the cases for neck for uniformity and not neck turn with the type gauge below.

blZCE83.jpg


I have also read that the Lee collet die with use will make the necks more uniform. Meaning the collet will compress the necks to a uniform thickness.

Or you can buy Lapua or other types of high quality brass and not do anything at all to it.
 
bigedp51 said:
Neck turning can give more consistent neck tension, and it also can cause donuts as the brass flows upward into the neck.

Many reloaders just skim turn the case necks and only take off the high spots.

You can also just check and sort the cases for neck for uniformity and not neck turn with the type gauge below.

blZCE83.jpg


I have also read that the Lee collet die with use will make the necks more uniform. Meaning the collet will compress the necks to a uniform thickness.

Or you can buy Lapua or other types of high quality brass and not do anything at all to it.
Click to expand...

Using the Lee collet die the 'donut' is formed on the outside at the base of the neck, when the case causes an increase in bolt closing effort it is time to outside neck turn the donut off.

The cutter is set up so no brass is removed until the donut is reached thus not thinning the neck more than desired.
 
And if you do not neck turn, then a donut never forms as the brass flows up into the neck.

Again if you buy high quality brass like Lapua it should not need neck turning.

And on the flip side of this, I have had Remington .223 brass with .009 neck thickness variations.
 
I lucked out one day at a gun show and picked up a 243 neck reaming die and reamer.
Better than neck turning by far.
I also use a Lyman setup for my case trimmer and that has worked pretty good for me, but not as good as reaming.

David
 
bigedp51 said:
And if you do not neck turn, then a donut never forms as the brass flows up into the neck.

Again if you buy high quality brass like Lapua it should not need neck turning.

And on the flip side of this, I have had Remington .223 brass with .009 neck thickness variations.
Click to expand...

I use Lapua brass exclusively, there are variations in neck thicknes, although not great.

Alpha seems a bit better in that regard.
 
BCBRAD said:
I use Lapua brass exclusively, there are variations in neck thicknes, although not great.

Alpha seems a bit better in that regard.
Click to expand...

Have you ever had a problem with the body die/Lee collet die set-up causing donuts.. I've used this method in 3 of my heavy barreled rifles and have never got a donut. Maybe just lucky.
 
RunningRiver said:
In my research I've come to the conclusion I need to make additions and changes to my reloading game, these include: using dies with bushings, annealing, improved scale for powder accuracy. I've been doing a bit of reading on neck turning, and I think I should go down this road as well. I've been eyeing the sinclair 4000 model - Is there a different brand for neck turning that I should be looking at?

Thank you for your help!
Ian
Click to expand...

Welcome to the world of reloading

1) Largest measurable gain buy a quality scale as others have mentions A&D fx120i is a good scale
2) Quality dies with the proper bushings... Redding or Whidden bushing. start testing using .003thou neck tension then try less .002thou
2a) Lee Collet makes a great system they use a mandrel for their neck tension. the mandrel pushes any variations in neck thickness to the outside.
3) measuring tools calipers and micrometer...don't skimp on these.

do you know you neck chamber dimension; is your rifle a no turn neck or requires neck turning
you need a min of .003thou neck clearance for best results, more is fine.

ALL brass has neck variations, you want go down the rabbit hole it will improve your groups but at a high cost (time).
preferred neck turners
21st century, PMA, and my favourite The Pumpkin (hard to source) sinclair is not in the top three of neck turners
you should buy an expander from the same manufacturer as the turner

Case donuts are sometimes a byproduct of neck turning you can avoid the donut by:
- turning the brass to proper depth beyond the neck shoulder junction (pictured below)
- avoid seat bullets past its pressure ring
- don't neck size the entire length of the neck

turned necks like this avoid the donut. no milling machine required

millturn3.jpg


Annealing is proven and has shown results, it is costly and not one of your must have tools ...yet

enjoy your 6.5PRC

Trevor
 

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hunters home said:
Have you ever had a problem with the body die/Lee collet die set-up causing donuts.. I've used this method in 3 of my heavy barreled rifles and have never got a donut. Maybe just lucky.
Click to expand...

It is not a problem but after a lot of cycles, 10-15 depending ,I find the bolt has a bit of stiffness upon closing. I set the cutter up so it does not affect most of the neck just the swell/donut at the base of the neck.

Much prefer the body die and Lee collet die, as opposed to bushings, which transfer any irregularities to the inside of the neck.
 
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