Need a bear gun...Marlin Lever?
- Thread starter mdbuckle
- Start date
wise choice. it is now confirmed, 444 with 385-400 grain bullets drops elephant and cape buffalo. was chatting with beartoothbullets so there you have it. two capable calibers.
concerning penetration with standard weight bullets, no need to worry in a 444. if the fellow who makes the bullets tells you that a 290 grain slug can punch through both shoulders of a 1200 pound moose and still smash through to knock out a golfball size hunk of granite out of a boulder, that should be sufficient in this continent.
cheers
forgive me for the final 444 plug, just wanted to dispell some myths about the calibre.
a fellow used one three times on safari, apparently its pretty good for taming lions too!
concerning penetration with standard weight bullets, no need to worry in a 444. if the fellow who makes the bullets tells you that a 290 grain slug can punch through both shoulders of a 1200 pound moose and still smash through to knock out a golfball size hunk of granite out of a boulder, that should be sufficient in this continent.
cheers
forgive me for the final 444 plug, just wanted to dispell some myths about the calibre.
a fellow used one three times on safari, apparently its pretty good for taming lions too!
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m1978 said:
yes they will, but so does a 6.5x55, .303brit, 8mm Mauser, and .30-06.... blah blah blah.
HUNTING sure. STOPPING, not quite. the guys taking big bore lever guns to africa are doing so as a publicity stunt, nothing more...
some good articles on this topic floating around the 'net.
when the guy who makes the bullets tells you he has no reservation using it for that task, thats gotta mean something, so blah blah yourself smart guy. one shot one kill is a stop. geez, ignorance must be bliss eh?
if you can tell me that a 45-70, 450, or 444 cannot drop any of the big five with the right bullets you are on crack.
and they would be absolute dynamite on the thin skinned game. not the best choice for the big stuff perhaps, but certainly up to the task
if you can tell me that a 45-70, 450, or 444 cannot drop any of the big five with the right bullets you are on crack.
and they would be absolute dynamite on the thin skinned game. not the best choice for the big stuff perhaps, but certainly up to the task
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..............The guide gun rocks. I am contemplating going to a Weaver K2.5 fixed scope though. I was shooting at dusk the other evening at the range and i would have liked the low power scope. Good for light gathering and a low power would be good for quick target aquisition. The peep is awesome out to 100 yards easy though. Points like a shotgun.
do your home work, when they first took the Garret rounds over with the .45-70 guide guns on buffalo hunts there was a major ####storm that followed. even a hotloaded .45-70 only generated 3500ft.lbs, far less then what most African PH's consider suitable stopping power.
but you go take your .444 after some buff. can I have your rifle when you get smooshed?
they will kill fine, but they will not stop. an african hunting round (so those that work there say) needs to have both. there is a reason the .375H&H is reguarded as the MINIMUM for these endevors.
but you go take your .444 after some buff. can I have your rifle when you get smooshed?
they will kill fine, but they will not stop. an african hunting round (so those that work there say) needs to have both. there is a reason the .375H&H is reguarded as the MINIMUM for these endevors.
didn't say it was the first choice. you're telling me a hard cast bullet in those rifles will not penetrate the braincase, but an ak 47 fmj will, and we all know that a hell of a lot of poacher use the ak. if you're 450 isn't up to the task of buffalo, why the hell did you buy it when a 444 or 405 would do just as good of a job on north american big game?
.............I don't know. I look at that big 405 grain chunk of lead and think to myself it should be good for anything on the planet short of a whale.
...........If 280's and .270's are used for moose i can't see why a .45-70 can't do in every animal on this planet.
...........If 280's and .270's are used for moose i can't see why a .45-70 can't do in every animal on this planet.
Win94 said:
guess our forefathers had bigger stones. get close, fire. done.
amphibious, you seem to enjoy bashing the 444. do you have any tales of where it performed less than satisfactory? everyone i've talked to who has used it has NEVER complained. please, no story of 240 grain bullet failing on a huge animal need be passed on, i am talking when the proper bullet has been matched to the game. i have used both and cannot see any notable difference in performance.
as a side note, out of curiousity, does the 450 give better case life than the 45-70?
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m1978 said:
when have I bashed the .444? it is not aqequate for stopping large African game. FACT. not a bash.
maybe it's the .444 owners suffering from a napolian complex?
I;m sure the .444 will do just fine on all north american game. but it does not have the stopping power, or bullet selection of the .458's. FACT. and for me, if I am buying a gun for dealing with large nasty wounded things, with claws and teeth, in close quarters, the .444 would not be my first choice.
back to topic, big bore lever guns for black bear
both the 444 & 45-70/450 Marlin are excellent choices, given proper ammunition
IMO, since you're going to be throwing big chunks of bullet, and ranges will be close anyways, might as well go big and choose the 45 cals.
If recoil is a problem, get a 30-30
both the 444 & 45-70/450 Marlin are excellent choices, given proper ammunition
IMO, since you're going to be throwing big chunks of bullet, and ranges will be close anyways, might as well go big and choose the 45 cals.
If recoil is a problem, get a 30-30
