i wasnt refering to you either, i guess i should have quoted the person this was aimed at.In any case, i'm sorry.Longshot said:Ok first of all,jackass,telling me to STFU and blathering on like an idiot when we could be disscussing this like men is a good way to get a timeout.
If you had taken a minute to read my post without flying off the handle you would have seen I said "within your skill level".I said nothing about not doing it.I think when the dude is asking questions about what calibers are go to go that far and all he's shot is an AR then think it's fairly obvious it's not within his skill level.I myself might take such a shot if conditions were perfect and I had enough gun.
So be a man.Appologize for your bad behavior and carry on with this conversation.
need a longer range rifle!!
- Thread starter marlin1895gs
- Start date
marlin1895gs
CGN Regular
- Location
- Medicine Hat / Southern Manitoba
an ar isn't all i've shot, i've shot lots of rifles, including a .300 wm, i just can't honestly say i practiced enough to be any good with the thing.. and that 1000 yd thing... someone else threw that number out, and i thought.. yeah i would kinda like to do that. doesn't mean im gunna put together a rifle and go try and do it tomorrow.. but if im gunna spend the money, i'd rather have something that i know could, and maybe would someday, or something... rather then a nother fancy paper weight which i dont use much because its no better then what i already have, and i certainly ain't gunna buy 5 guns on the way up to something worth while just to practice with to get 'prepared'.. that kinda money i dont have, all of the calibers we've talked about here so far wouldn't be extreme enough, imo to stop me from learning on it without tons of prior 'upgrading.' i know it won't be easy, but if it was i wouldn't be doing it.. the guide gun just doesn't cut it past 300 yrds..
- Location
- Hillbilly shack in the boonies
The guide gun was ment for CQB with nasty. And brush hunting, 300 meters
don't think so, can be done, but why push it when there are many fine guns that are designed for this range.Get a 243, or other 1k-capable 6mm, or 6.5. Shoot it. Lots. At 1k at the range. By the time you're good enough to reliably hit stuff way out there, your rifle will probably be shot out. Then do it again, with a 7mm RM. Once that one's toast, go to a 300WM. Then get a 338RUM or Lapua.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Well, let's give this guy a game plan to work from if he is serious about LR shooting.
Start with something you can afford to shoot. You are going to need to bust a lot of primers to learn how to dope conditions.
The least expensive and very instructional is a 22LR shot at 100 to 200yds. There are many rifles that can shoot MOA to 1.5 MOA at these distances. Very few shooters can dope enough to do that well on any given day.
You learn how to do that and you have mastered the hardest part of LR shooting.
The next 'best' choice is a fast twist 223. The Savage 10 and 12's get the nod as they come with decent triggers, are accurate and have the bits and pieces to make the trip worthwhile.
Even your AR can be made to work if fitted with the many awesome top end kits used for service rifle comps. Some shoot as well or better then a bolt rifle. Problem is most ranges don't let you shoot far.
If willing to build a rifle and want a 'true' LR cartridge, one of the easiest is the 6BR. www.6mmbr.com for more info then you know what to do with.
By the time you wear out any of the above, you will have a solid understanding of ballistics, doping, real accuracy and how to reload (well not in the rimfire). From there, let your budget decide. Start saving for support optics. You will spend a small fortune.
I don't recommend anything larger in bore simply because of recoil and costs. I shoot alot of LR and have cannons up to the 338. Big boomers are exciting but when you burn $1 to $2 per pop, most are going to find trigger time expensive.
The 308 is an excellent tutor but it will recoil more then the 223 and ballistics are essential the same out to 1000yds.
I will not bother with the LR hunting scenerios as you are well aware of lack of experience. longrangehunting.com is an excellent location to learn more about this segment of hunting. You will be looking at very large cannons and this will be expensive.
Worry about hitting clays on the long side of 500yds. When you can pop a clay at 700 to 800yds on any given day you would hunt on, you can start thinking about hunting real game. 87gr Vmax from a 6BR is deadly at these ranges.
I have burnt alot of powder, barrels, primers, bullets, etc over the last 9yrs. Still, there are more times that the bolt is opened and another day chosen to make the shot.
LR hunting is alot of time shooting/practising and spotting game and very very few shots at them.
Jerry
Start with something you can afford to shoot. You are going to need to bust a lot of primers to learn how to dope conditions.
The least expensive and very instructional is a 22LR shot at 100 to 200yds. There are many rifles that can shoot MOA to 1.5 MOA at these distances. Very few shooters can dope enough to do that well on any given day.
You learn how to do that and you have mastered the hardest part of LR shooting.
The next 'best' choice is a fast twist 223. The Savage 10 and 12's get the nod as they come with decent triggers, are accurate and have the bits and pieces to make the trip worthwhile.
Even your AR can be made to work if fitted with the many awesome top end kits used for service rifle comps. Some shoot as well or better then a bolt rifle. Problem is most ranges don't let you shoot far.
If willing to build a rifle and want a 'true' LR cartridge, one of the easiest is the 6BR. www.6mmbr.com for more info then you know what to do with.
By the time you wear out any of the above, you will have a solid understanding of ballistics, doping, real accuracy and how to reload (well not in the rimfire). From there, let your budget decide. Start saving for support optics. You will spend a small fortune.
I don't recommend anything larger in bore simply because of recoil and costs. I shoot alot of LR and have cannons up to the 338. Big boomers are exciting but when you burn $1 to $2 per pop, most are going to find trigger time expensive.
The 308 is an excellent tutor but it will recoil more then the 223 and ballistics are essential the same out to 1000yds.
I will not bother with the LR hunting scenerios as you are well aware of lack of experience. longrangehunting.com is an excellent location to learn more about this segment of hunting. You will be looking at very large cannons and this will be expensive.
Worry about hitting clays on the long side of 500yds. When you can pop a clay at 700 to 800yds on any given day you would hunt on, you can start thinking about hunting real game. 87gr Vmax from a 6BR is deadly at these ranges.
I have burnt alot of powder, barrels, primers, bullets, etc over the last 9yrs. Still, there are more times that the bolt is opened and another day chosen to make the shot.
LR hunting is alot of time shooting/practising and spotting game and very very few shots at them.
Jerry
Fantastic advice guys !
Appology acceptedCarry on.
I would also tell you to get out on a long range and practice practice practice!1,000 y is a long way.That's not to say that you can't get there.But it takes work.You should get a decent rifle and get to every long range competition you can get your hands on.Get someone who has been there to partner up with.LISTEN to what he/she has to say.Be a sponge.Absorb everything you can from them.I find that's one of the fastest ways to learn.
Appology accepted
Carry on.I would also tell you to get out on a long range and practice practice practice!1,000 y is a long way.That's not to say that you can't get there.But it takes work.You should get a decent rifle and get to every long range competition you can get your hands on.Get someone who has been there to partner up with.LISTEN to what he/she has to say.Be a sponge.Absorb everything you can from them.I find that's one of the fastest ways to learn.
marlin1895gs
CGN Regular
- Location
- Medicine Hat / Southern Manitoba
what do you guys know about the 8mm remington mag?
and for curiosity, whats the diff between a 300 win mag and a 300 rum?
and for curiosity, whats the diff between a 300 win mag and a 300 rum?
Well gentlemen interesting conversation. I have a 223 and just purchased a 300 win mag browning Abolt stainless stalker with the boss. I am wanting to use it for moose this fall, I'm going to start loading it with 180 grain nosler accubond Hogdon H1000 with winchester LR primers. Has anyone had some experence with this or something simmilear? Also does anyone have more information on some of the long range shooting ranges or clubs? I agree practice is the key to all of this, and for me this summer i'm going to determine my limitations.
deertaker said:
H1000 should be fine. I'd go with partitions over bonded though - they'll perform better at 300 WM speeds.
I'd also bank on more than one summer to get proficient at LR shooting, unless you have already sent several thousand 223 rounds downrange at longer distances
Marlin1895gs: If you are bound-and-determined to go to a 1000 yard hunting-capable cartidge in one step probably something between the 7mm Remington Mag and the 7mm Remington Ultra Mag. Everything in that class will launch a good 180 grain bullet fast enough to still deliver 1000 footpounds (which some folks consider the lowest energy level to reliably kill big game animals, given good shot placement) at 1000 yards
Thanks gentleman, I also have a pound of H4831 too but I heard it was more prone to fluxuation due to temp change. But I'm going to try that too. Partitions are my second choice, curious to see how the accu bonds hold up. And I grew up hunting ground hogs on about 3000 acers with my 223, 243 and 225. I'm used to making pretty long shots but definatly want to see my limitations and then shoot well within them for a moose. Thanks again and sorry for jumping in on the discussion, but I thought you might find it interesting.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
My first impression was to suggest you try a mild caliber like the .308 or as suggested one of the 6.5's because they are cheap enough to shoot that you can shoot them a lot, and the only way to shoot well at long range is to shoot a lot. With respect, 1000 is not 500. At these ranges everything changes, bullets plunge and a range miscalculation of 25 yards means that your bullet might drop 2' below the target, or strike 2' above it. A breath of wind can do like wise, and unless you have a static scope set up on a tripod, you will have no idea where the target is once the mirage starts to flow.
When I saw that you wanted to take game at these extended ranges I realized that a mild caliber rifle will not serve your purposes. A .30-378 Weatherby would be a good place to start, and a .338 Lapua or a .338-378 might give you better game bullets for long range. If a person uses a laser rangefinder, and a map to verify the range, or better yet, puts out bait at a pre-measured location where he regularly shoots, and shoots there often enough to know where your bullet will strike you might prevail.
It's interesting to note that in a shoot here a few years back, the range was 820 meters, that many of the uninitiated thought they could easily hit caribou at that range and further - based by how close they came to getting hits with our pre-zeroed rifles. What was interesting was that they left their rifles in their pick-ups when they saw what we were shooting, and only 4 of us had any idea how to zero a rifle for that range - which is still far short of 1000. The fellow who won that day was shooting a .30-378 and the other two rifles were my .308 and a Sendero in .25-06.
When I saw that you wanted to take game at these extended ranges I realized that a mild caliber rifle will not serve your purposes. A .30-378 Weatherby would be a good place to start, and a .338 Lapua or a .338-378 might give you better game bullets for long range. If a person uses a laser rangefinder, and a map to verify the range, or better yet, puts out bait at a pre-measured location where he regularly shoots, and shoots there often enough to know where your bullet will strike you might prevail.
It's interesting to note that in a shoot here a few years back, the range was 820 meters, that many of the uninitiated thought they could easily hit caribou at that range and further - based by how close they came to getting hits with our pre-zeroed rifles. What was interesting was that they left their rifles in their pick-ups when they saw what we were shooting, and only 4 of us had any idea how to zero a rifle for that range - which is still far short of 1000. The fellow who won that day was shooting a .30-378 and the other two rifles were my .308 and a Sendero in .25-06.
- Location
- Ft. Mac. Alberta
deertaker said:
I'm not too sure how a Partition will do out at the extended ranges you want to shoot.
most LR hunters use a boat tailed bullet of special construction , high BC and SC.
Maybe give bulletsmith a yank and see just what you are getting into.
he has done some super research and is an accomplished LR hunter also.
He bilds some VERY fine bullets! It is not something that happens overnight, that is for sure!!
Cat
marlin1895gs
CGN Regular
- Location
- Medicine Hat / Southern Manitoba
ok, so i've been doin some readin and thinkin, maybe i'd be happier with a 6mm because its probably a lot cheaper to shoot, and can still shoot coyotes etc a long way out, but which 6mm would be best, and where can i find an ammo price list, which version is the most powerful etc? and which rifle would you all suggest me to get it chambered in if i would go this route?
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
243 in a Savage 12fv. Bed the action, tune the trigger as light as it will go, learn how to reload. Open up the foreend so that there is at least 1/8" of space between stock and barrel and these stocks will work just fine.
I use mine to shoot 1/4MOA and no issue being sub MOA to 940yds in my sporter contour 7RM Savage. Despite their continued bad rep, the factory stocks work just fine.
The rest is practise, practise, and more practise.
Jerry
I use mine to shoot 1/4MOA and no issue being sub MOA to 940yds in my sporter contour 7RM Savage. Despite their continued bad rep, the factory stocks work just fine.
The rest is practise, practise, and more practise.
Jerry
marlin1895gs
CGN Regular
- Location
- Medicine Hat / Southern Manitoba
can i use any 6mm cartridge in the factory 243 action?
i think i have to get #### done to it.. probably what does this stuff normally run at, and would a new barrel be recommended, or could i wait till i can make use of it, and concentrate on a scope first
i think i have to get #### done to it.. probably what does this stuff normally run at, and would a new barrel be recommended, or could i wait till i can make use of it, and concentrate on a scope first
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no, there are a lot of different 6mm cartridges that are dimsionally different from the 243. 6ppc, 6 remington, 6br, 6 wssm, etc.
With the 243 case there are dozens of different bullets you can load, from 55gr up past 100 grains.
With the 243 case there are dozens of different bullets you can load, from 55gr up past 100 grains.
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Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Maybe you mean this - any cartridge that shares the same bolt head dimensions can be used in that action. The limitations will be whether it will fit or feed from the mag. Single shot no problem.
Any cartridge will require a new barrel and appropriate fitting.
You are over analysing this. Forget about the bling and concentrate on the quickest way to get you to the range. That would be a factory rifle of good quality.
The 243 will do more then you can for a very long time. By the time 1500rds have been sent downrange, you have answered all of your upcoming questions through your own experience.
'Nuff said, now go make some noise.
Jerry
Any cartridge will require a new barrel and appropriate fitting.
You are over analysing this. Forget about the bling and concentrate on the quickest way to get you to the range. That would be a factory rifle of good quality.
The 243 will do more then you can for a very long time. By the time 1500rds have been sent downrange, you have answered all of your upcoming questions through your own experience.
'Nuff said, now go make some noise.
Jerry
