Need advice, new precision rifle shooter

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MartyK2500

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Hello, i have desire to participate in this sport, i am new so i have limited investment.
For rifle, i have bought a Savage 10TR .308 bolt from SFRC, price seemed great for a starter setup and featured options.
For scope, i will purchase in the next comming weeks, vortex viper pst, FFP, and still debating if i go 4-16 or 6-24. Advice on this could be cool, it will be a starter precision rig all year long, with 2-3 coyote hunts per year.

Now where i wish not to waste any money, would be rail and rings.
The man who i will hire so to speak for a few range sessions to properly get me starting, strongly suggested me to buy a 20moa rail for the rifle and ditch the factory one, where can i find a good one at a good price?
I have seen a badger one at wolverine supplies, but would like to see oter options too.

As far as rings go, how low can i / should i go with these rifles? I do not plan on installing a chassis, if ever i do someday id probably look at MDT LSS which would remain lightweight, and would keep my scope mounting intact.
 
as low as possible for rings is how I like to run things. If your new a lot of rifles will out preform YOU! get a good optic that you can transfer from rifle to rifle as you progress in your quest for accuracy ;)
 
Congrats on the new rifle.

As for the scope, if you're going to hunt with the rig, I'd probably say to go the 4-16x route. If you're going to be shooting long range precision-ish, go for the 6-24x. At 16x you can just barely see your bullet holes in your targets at 200yrds. Just pickup a nice spotting scope.

As for the rails, do you know what distances you'll be shooting mostly? If your are shooting at the range that's only 200yrds, there's no need to upgrade the rail to a 20MOA. If you're going to shoot 800+yrds, then the 20MOA might be an asset. Some folks have stripped those rail screws on their 10TR rifles and had some headaches trying to remove them.

If you do go with a 20MOA rail, EGW makes some pretty solid rails that won't break the budget. I've got a couple of them and have had zero issues.
 
Thanks for the tip on EGW i'll check them out.
At first i wont shoot pass 600, but i have been told he will put me to the challenge quick enough and this rail would be good.
Since i am not mounting scope myself, i do not wish to dismount later on to go to 20moa. I do plenty of 10/22 and 1911 mods myself, but i wish to get the scope gunsmith installed (not gun shop installed ;) ). Just to be sure im off a good start.

I get you mount scopes as low as you can, i am scared that scope will rub on rail if i go too low. If anyone has experiences mounting scopes on 10TR please share your ring height. Btw im on mobile, i will search and review the 10TR thread going on too.
 
I usually recommend 20 MOA and EGW make good rails as do many others. I prefer steel over aluminum. Talley are also fine and are often found in your local gun shop. For rings, I like Burris - esp the signature Z - at the lower price point but prefer over all others the TPS rings which are excellent value.

I know many, many people are big fans of Vortex and they do have a great warranty but I think there are better scopes at the price point and recommend you look at Sightron and the Elite series from Bushnell before making a final decision. As far as magnification is concerned I usually recommend as much as you can get if most of your shooting is going to be at paper.
 
With a 20MOA rail and a 50mm objective on a 30mm tube, you can use low rings like the Burris Xtreme Tactical series. Keep in mind that not all scope ring makers version of low are the same. Stick with standard length rails and avoid the extra long rails or you might end up having to chop off a piece of the rail if the objective bell makes contact with it.

With a 50mm objective, you might want to check your cheek weld height. If you find you are having to sit the stock on your chin area, you might want to pickup an adjustable cheek rest, either a strap on bag type or one like the Tac Pro kydex ones. Your gunsmith should be able to size you up for proper eye relief and cheek weld.

Oh, pickup a scope bubble level while you're out shopping as well.

Let the fun begin!
 
Nice choice in rifles and scopes, I generally prefer Tikka and Remington for my rifles, but the Savage that I own is a shooter for sure. The EGW rail is good, but you could use Burris signature rings with the factory rail and get the offset inserts to get the 20MOA you need and save some money, remember you have to buy rings anyways and these are reasonably priced and are good quality. The advice for a bubble level is sound, you need to keep that rifle positioned as consistently as possible and the only way to really do this is to use a bubble level. I like the type that clamps on the scope tube, position it for your off side eye, with a little practice you will see the bubble in left eye (right hand shooter) but it will appear as though it is inside the scope, once you are levelled out and the sight picture is good, you can close the left eye if you wish and the bubble disappears clearing up your sight picture.
 
I think EGM rails are generally aluminum, but most of the Savage factory rails are manufactured by EGW and are a decent product. When I put my 20moa on I went with a Farrel. It was a really nice piece of equipment. I have a custom Murphy Precision on my .338 Savage in 40moa. They are a little more, but the final fit is better. I use all Vortex Precision matched rings on all my scopes now. They are made by Seekins. They run about $120, but dont require any lapping. I always look at my rail and my rings like the most amount of interfaces between my reticle and by bore. The better quality I use, the less variences there will be and the less chance of anything coming loose as I go. I do try to find a balance point on cost vs quality though. Hard to justify the cost of the Nightforce or Badger stuff when there are so many other great products available.
 
I don't see the need for the 20MOA rail myself, I have the same rifle, but I have a Bushnell Elite 6500 on it and I'm able to put in adjustments to get out to 1,000 yards. I would say save your money on the rail (not sure what the adjustment range is for the Viper though, you may need it)
I went 4.5-30x50 for scope, so I would say 6-24
with my 50mm objective with the factory rail, low rings worked for me

if you haven't already, you may want to have a look through this thread - http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1019704-Savage-10TR-le-military

Then you can see what other people are running for set ups and give you some ideas.
 
The Vortex only has 65moa of adjustment. That is more than enough for 500m, but once you get started shooting "long range" it is pretty addictive. 500 gets pretty easy pretty quick and it is only a matter of time before 1000 is your end goal. If the Vortex is in your budget, I would very seriously just look at the Sightron. More adjustment and better glass. The Bushnell Elite HDMR is likely the next step up from there before Nightforce. It is very easy to keep bumping yourself a hundred or two at at time and before you know it your into a 1800-2000 piece of glass. The Sightrons are likely the best bang for the buck. Mystic can set you up with one for a good price.

If 500 yards is all you plan on doing for now, hold off on the rail like Condomboy said and spend the money on the glass. Go with the 6-24x and you will be ready for more distance when the time comes. The rifle will do it and so will the round.
 
Cool thanks for all the replys guys, this here info combined to my smiths recommendation have brought me to some decisions.
I have also looked extensively at the 10TR thread for ideas.

Seems like rails and rings can make or break precision, i'll probably bend over and settle for badger ordinance.
Have the 20MOA rail red loctighted in, and buy low 30mm rings. Some sort of extreme version that has 6bolts per ring.
Bipod i havent got a clue yet, not researched that.
Scope i have minded myself for 6-24x50, since i will shoot 98% ranged paper. I do not know if it will be vortex now since it seems i have options from what i have read. I cannot afford one cent more, 1200$+tx is the very most i could pay. Scope bubble is a great idea thanks!
What i liked about vortex, no b.s. Warranty. So down the road it means easy resale value for when i wish to upgrade.
Muzzle brake, have not researched yet.
Last detail which seems not worth mentionning i do feel the tac pro adjustable cheek rest will be needed, but i'll wait to the very end for that.
 
Sightron 8-32x56 is in your budget. This is the pick of the litter as far as I'm concerned from Sightron.

Bipod - Mmmm, I've reviewed most here as I'll say that if you want the best tactical bipod out there get a LRA but they are not cheap. A Harris type will do you just fine and the knock off Harris' are going to be just as good as the real thing for a .308

I am not a fan of tac-pro. I recommend a removable cheekpad like those offered by Blackhawk and many others - one especially good one is made by a a CGN'er and it is the Coyote Cheek Pad.

Gizzly Gun Works is where you ought to look for a brake but do you really need one ?
 
You don't need 6 bolt cap rings for.308...........just stick with the 4 bolt cap rings........but I would buy rings with the hex cross bolt that tightens to the rail......this way you can use a torque wrench and properly tighten the rings to the rail.........I use badger Ordnance Maximized rings and love them........

Forget the muzzle brake......you don't need one on a .308......

My buddy just picked up a Vortex PST 6 - 24 X 50mm and is very happy with it........
 
For a scope I would go with Sightron for your budget. Go with a 6-25 or 8-32
As for the FFP part from your earlier post I personally would save your money and not worry about it. To me it's useless, I'll explain my reasons for this rather than have to reply later to the guys saying it's the best and you need it.

If I'm close enough that I'm at less than maximum magnification I probably don't need to be using it for ranging or for measuring holdover.
I'm typically using maximum magnification at everything past 100 yards when shooting for accuracy off a bench or prone so my reticle is accurate for almost all my shooting.

To me it's just another fad that you don't really need and costs you an extra $200-$500.
 
First focal plane will be a must, I wish to run different postions with differents yards and such, if I get my interest up for hunting it will also help.
I have seen that Mystic is stocking Sightron, I will give them a very close look in due time. The scope will be my last purchase ( I hope by end 2014), as I wasn't totally ready yet to get into precision, but did not want to miss out on the latest batch of Savage 10TR, a perfect rookie rifle that (I hope) will give me some bang for the buck to start off with.
No muzzle brake at first noted, will get one down the road if I wish to annoy a line ;)
I guess my next shopping list could happen at wolverines

http://www.wolverinesupplies.com/de...il-Savage-Short-action-20-MOA-cant-54-oz.aspx
http://www.wolverinesupplies.com/de...-30mm-Max-50-Scope-Rings-Standard-Height.aspx ( I now know 6 bolts is overkill but they are priced lower that the 4 bolts for some reason)
http://www.wolverinesupplies.com/details/10189/Harris-Bipod-6-to-9-with-notches-Swivels.aspx

For the cheek piece I could go with a removable one as someone suggested, seems to make much more sense.
 
Seems like you are on the right track. The Badger stuff is good, but very expensive. If you are on a budget, you can do better for less money.

Ken Farrell
20moa Rail - http://www.kenfarrell.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=20_28&product_id=391 $118
Rings - http://www.kenfarrell.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=18_45&product_id=473 $167

I got my Vortex Precision Matched Rings from Natures Corner in Edmonton for $160.00. They should ship.

For a bipod, the Harris works, but no comparison to the Atlas. They are more money, but definitely worth it. The best would be the LRA.

For a quick add on brake, the Grizzly Defcon 1 is an excellent design.

I put a TacPro on my Savage .338. I'm happy with it. Don't really like the stock packs, but you have to be committed when you start drilling holes in your stock.

GO SIGHTRON I have owned 3 Viper PSTs and I have upgraded each of them in less than a year. The warranty is fine, but to be honest, you should only need to use it if you are buying a junk scope. Never needed warranty on my Nightforces. I haven't seen many reviews on the Sightrons failing. The glass has been compared to Nightforce for half the money. If your budget is $1,200 plus tax, you can easily get a Sightron. The 6-24 will get you more elevation, the 8-32 will get you a better picture for bullet holes on paper. I have had no issues using my 5.5-22 out to a mile plus on steel.

The new Nightforce SHVs are in stock at Hirsch Precision and priced at your budget. Great reticles, but the turrets aren't a true target/tactical. They do have covered full click adjustment turrets though. I am going to be getting rid off my last PST for a Nightforce SHV this winter. No more Vortex for me. More hype than substance.
 
I will chime in agan but this time on the FFP issue - I've joked in the past that I am a dyed in the wool SFP guy but, quite seriously, if you are on a budget do consider saving the $2-300 extra that FFP costs. The ranging attributes of FFP are clear - yes, you can range at all magnifications whereas with SFP the reticule is only accurate at one particular setting - but most of us who shoot really do not need this. I have many rifles and all wear very nice glass but only one is FFP and that is the Elite DMR which, incidentally, was the best value scope in the Precision Rifle Blog recent tactical scope test.
 
Shecter81, thanks for your input, and links, will look into it.
I am not scared of drilling a stock for a cheekpiece, as i have already bought 2 cans of krylon flat OD... Figure the rest lol
I know thats far from being necessary, i just like my gear to be different than the other 1000 10TRs.
Mine has just changed status to shipped! Yeah cant wait to feel the bolt, see if its more on the gritty side of rem700SPS or on the slick side of tikka T3. Trying not to get hyped so i don't get dissapointed.

Now guys you really have me for sightron. Which model compares to what i wanted in vortex?
In vortex i was going with 6-24x50, FFP, mil/mil, ebr1 reticule
Looking at their website, i am clueless about these, as the only canadian retailer i have found that carries these the info seems confusing to naviguate.
Edit, this seems like the closest in specs : SIIISS 6-24X50 LRFFP/MH
2nd edit, in stock at hirsh prcision 1090$ + tx + ship, that is a cool price point. Looking forward to read some reviews on this!

Tomochan, i completely get where you are getting at.
If i we're shooting off a bench for ultimate precision, id be going SFP for the fine crosshairs, and MOA/MOA to be able to chat precision with the target guys. The man which i will pay to teach me long range shooting, will get me shooting at different distances and conditions requiring quick adjustments in the scope. Thats why he steered me towards FFP MRAD, there is definatly a place for SFP MOA but thats not where i wish to play at this moment.
 
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