Need help deciding on my second Lever action...

c-fbmi said:
The 444 is just a bad joke.......45-70 all the way, or a 71 in 348 is a powerful set up like G H said. If you want the most power in a levergun go to the Win 95 in 405 WCF, a true powerhouse and ammo is available for it as well as loading components.
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Another great rifle / cartridge combo , and also waaay cooler than any 45-70 or. 444
 
c-fbmi said:
The 444 is just a bad joke.......45-70 all the way, or a 71 in 348 is a powerful set up like G H said. If you want the most power in a levergun go to the Win 95 in 405 WCF, a true powerhouse and ammo is available for it as well as loading components.
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That's probably what Mr. Moose thought,

;)until a 265gr Hornady took his shoulder out. There have been a number of others but this is the only photo I had close by.
 
I never said it wouldn't kill moose Johnn. It is just very, very limited with respect to factory loaded bullet weights and even reloading selection is minimal above 300 gns. The brass is proprietary and expensive IF you can find any and factory ammo is almost never seen outside the biggies. 45-70 is a much better choice on all these counts, brass is nearly as common as 223, bullet weights "ad infinitum" , virtually every corner store has 'em on the shelf and you give up nothing to the 444 at all, power, trajectory, availability all fall in favor of the 45-70 with one load or another.
And then there is the selection of firearms available in 45-70 compared to the 444...............well, need I say more......


Personally I'm still touting the 95 in 405 WCF...........the true heavy hitter of the leverguns!!!!!
 
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c-fbmi said:
I never said it wouldn't kill moose Johnn. It is just very, very limited with respect to factory loaded bullet weights and even reloading selection is minimal above 300 gns. The brass is proprietary and expensive IF you can find any and factory ammo is almost never seen outside the biggies. 45-70 is a much better choice on all these counts, brass is nearly as common as 223, bullet weights "ad infinitum" , virtually every corner store has 'em on the shelf and you give up nothing to the 444 at all, power, trajectory, availability all fall in favor of the 45-70 with one load or another.
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No arguement there. To chose between the two, my 1895GS in 45-70 would get 1st pick over the 444S. That being said, I would have no hesitation in pulling the 444 out and taking it for an outing. If the 444 ever was any kind of joke, it was made so by virtue of Remingtons initial factory offerings, not unlike most of the factory offerings for the 45-70. That 240gr 'pistol' bullet left a lot to be desired. I found a world of improvement in results reloading with the Hornady 265gr FP. I'll keep my 444S though. It's knocked down a number of Moose, Black Bears and Deer and none shot at ever got away. Brass for the 444 'can' be a little hard to come by but I've had no trouble acquiring an 'adequate' supply.
 
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Realistically I can't see myself reloading anytime soon. There seems to be several comments that there are a wider array of choices when reloading for the 45/70, and more factory options as well, which is appealing. Are there factory loaded cartridges available that are comparable to the 444 factory loads? Or are all the factory 45/70 (in canada) milder to accommodate the older rifles?
By the way, I often shoot 1 once slug through short barreled 870 remington, is recoil comparable?
 
lawman_1000 said:
Realistically I can't see myself reloading anytime soon. There seems to be several comments that there are a wider array of choices when reloading for the 45/70, and more factory options as well, which is appealing. Are there factory loaded cartridges available that are comparable to the 444 factory loads? Or are all the factory 45/70 (in canada) milder to accommodate the older rifles?By the way, I often shoot 1 once slug through short barreled 870 remington, is recoil comparable?
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I believe so, the ones I've seen are. The 45-70 comes into or reaches it's real power potential with reloads in a modern day firearm.
 
Factory ammo is mostly downloaded to meet the weaker Shikari actions. Still OK for moose etc. but 45/70 does not come into it's own until it is loaded hotter than minimum. If you look at some loading manuals it will have different loads for falling blocks, Marlins and Ruger single shots, depending on receiver strength.
 
Yes, most factory ammo for 45/70 is tamed down due to the older guns around. If you want some full throttle 45/70 performance in a factory cartridge, look around for a 450 Marlin.
Hornady Leverevolution ammo should also give you a little better performance than other factory ammo as well (in theory anyway).
 
Have you considered the 338 Marlin Express? Similar muzzle power as the 45/70 and 444 but a better trajectory and retained energy than both.. Wicked round.
 
I own a BLR in 270wsm. For me I love the BLR because it allows you to use more "standard" hunting rounds. With most tube style levers your stuck with a lot of heavy short range calibers. I carry my BLR moose hunting and can be shot comparable to any long range bolt action. Not common for levers. My BLR has a few hundred rounds through it, Ive tried 5-6 different ammo brands, killed multiple animals. knock on wood, has never jammed or failed on me. I love it.
 
lawman_1000 said:
My appologies if this has been beaten to death. I have read hundreds of threads on the American forums, but everyone seems to be driven emotionally by what they have. Just looking for more objective discussions.

I just picked up a nice stainless 336ss 30-30, but I still feel like I NEED a big bore too!

Trying to decide between the 45/70 or a 444. I know practically the same for my applications (paper at range, maybe Moose/elk eventually), but looking for general pro's and cons. Also, if I pick up a big bore, will I actually still need the 30/30?? Lets hear from you that have all, or both or none at all but just have an opinion.

Thanks again guys.
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I would go eather smaller towards a little 357 or 44 magnum lever action or up towards the 45-70. IF you're looking to scope something the BLR is the way to go. For the range a little 357 is a nice fun toy, and for small game as well.

I like the 348s, the 405s but they are reloaders cartridges, if you dont reload best go for something more common. Even if you dont reload the 45-70 kills game pretty good.

And if you get a 45-70 and dont need to scope it, get a Winchester/Miroku 1886, its 3 times the quality at twice the price of an 1895. I had them lay a regular 1895 next to a 1886 extra lightweight side by side on the gun counter, it was all the convincing I needed to fork out the cash for the Winchester. I have a marlin 1894, they make some nice guns, but their 1895 is just crude.

Save your brass whatever you get!!!
 
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I had a BLR in 358 as well as a stainless 45/70 Rossi Rio Grande, I sold the BLR only because my long suffering Wife liked the "shiny rifle", still not sure if I made the right choice as I think the BLR is a superior rifle. It's fun to have to decide.
 
CPA said:
I own a BLR in 270wsm. For me I love the BLR because it allows you to use more "standard" hunting rounds. With most tube style levers your stuck with a lot of heavy short range calibers. I carry my BLR moose hunting and can be shot comparable to any long range bolt action. Not common for levers. My BLR has a few hundred rounds through it, Ive tried 5-6 different ammo brands, killed multiple animals. knock on wood, has never jammed or failed on me. I love it.
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This was the exact rifle I bought about 6 years ago when I got back into hunting after a long hiatus. It is undoubtedly a superior lever design and a very nice rifle to carry and operate. It likes every hand load I have tried. It will be going in the will.
 
lawman_1000 said:
I just picked up a nice stainless 336ss 30-30, but I still feel like I NEED a big bore too!
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Lever action 12GA...
Canada Ammo has em with full stock right now. Very nice price. Barrel might be a touch short, but non-res and if there's a shotgun only zone near you...
 
Ok, so just had the opportunity to pick up a BLR from a family friend, wasn't really considering it but heard nothing but good things....Its been stored for years and looks to be in excellent condition so couldn't resist! Made in Belgium, 308. I still feel like I need/want a big bore? Can the 308 do pretty much everything the others can do? Debating selling it to fund the big bore or keeping it as more of a longer distance gun. Decisions decisions...
 
lawman_1000 said:
Ok, so just had the opportunity to pick up a BLR from a family friend, wasn't really considering it but heard nothing but good things....Its been stored for years and looks to be in excellent condition so couldn't resist! Made in Belgium, 308. I still feel like I need/want a big bore? Can the 308 do pretty much everything the others can do? Debating selling it to fund the big bore or keeping it as more of a longer distance gun. Decisions decisions...
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Looks like you wont stop until you get your big bore.. might as well just get one :D
 
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