Need help finding the appropriate round.

[Major Sights]

I asked several weeks ago about the ethics of using .223 on whitetail deer.
(.223 vs deer; http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=602421 )

After reading through ALL of the responses I have to come to the decision of that YES, a .223 is an ethical round in PROPER circumstances. The area I hunt is mostly wooded so there is not much fear of a long shot. I am an extremely responsible hunter, who WILL only take shots that will drop the deer, and as I am a cook I want as much meat as possible (headshot or neck/spine). As trophies are not high up on my priority list (nor full head mounts...) I would be investing in several hundred dollars of ammunition BEFORE hunting season to ever begin and PRACTICE until I know the exact feel of the shot BEFORE the shot is taken.


Now with all that said. I ask unto you, What is the BEST .223 Round for the job? Price is NO barrier when it comes to it. My only barrier is that I am unable to reload at this time, so please don't suggest it.

 

[t-star]

maybe somehting like a 22-250 , since you haven't got the weight , go for velocity- anything above 60 grains , and use a well-contructed bullet- something like a 70 grain speer or equivilent, and keep your ranges fairly short- stay away from anything listed as "varmint " or "grenade" -

 

[bisonhd]

Can't handload, that really limits your choices.

Doesn't appear any mfg's produce .223 cartridges with a bullet they deem appropriate for "big" game. You have a choice of, explosive varmint loads, fmj military type loads or match target ammunition.

If your rifle can stabilize heavier bullets, it would be interesting to experiment for penetration with 60+ grain match loads.

 

[Major Sights]

Would something like this be appropriate? it has a hollow point and is over the 60grain mark.

HORNADY SUPERFORMANCE 223 REM 75GR BTHP

 

[t-star]

there's one other consideration if you go 223 /5.56 and that's your twist rate- the 1/12 twist is only good to 60 grains, the 1/9 to about 70, and if you go faster than that , you're ok- that load you show should be ok with a 1/9 or so, but i like a 1/7 for just about everything- you'd sure make this a LOT easier if you'd do the decent thing and step up to a 243- a cartridge that has NO PROBLEM putting down a deer- both in weight and velocity- your shots are going to have to be surgically precise, with well constructed bullets

 

[dutchhunter]

If you shoot the deer threw the ribs in to the lungs most 223 bullets will put them down quik . I have seen lots of big bucks shot with a 222 . Never lost one yet dutch

 

[Norton]

I don’t understand why someone would deliberately choose to use a .223 for deer hunting. Please step it up to .243
That being said, I suppose I would see how the 60gr Federal Premium Nosler partition vital-shock shot out of the rifle.

 

[burnt_servo]

I asked several weeks ago about the ethics of using .223 on whitetail deer.
(.223 vs deer; http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=602421 )

After reading through ALL of the responses I have to come to the decision of that YES, a .223 is an ethical round in PROPER circumstances. The area I hunt is mostly wooded so there is not much fear of a long shot. I am an extremely responsible hunter, who WILL only take shots that will drop the deer, and as I am a cook I want as much meat as possible (headshot or neck/spine). As trophies are not high up on my priority list (nor full head mounts...) I would be investing in several hundred dollars of ammunition BEFORE hunting season to ever begin and PRACTICE until I know the exact feel of the shot BEFORE the shot is taken.


Now with all that said. I ask unto you, What is the BEST .223 Round for the job? Price is NO barrier when it comes to it. My only barrier is that I am unable to reload at this time, so please don't suggest it.

with head and neck shots your likely hood of wounding the animal is very very very high .

i have seen alot of guys aim for the neck , the animal runs away and they assume they missed ...........

when what actually happened is they just went through some soft tissue and the animal slowly bleeds out hours / days later .

instead aim for just behind the front shoulder . it is a much larger target , if your off by a few inches your may damage a bit of meat , but the animal won't suffer for days .

you want to use the 223 and you don't reload ....... why bother then ......

get a 243 / 6mm or larger as there is tons of comercially available ammo out there ..... hell even a sks in 7.62x39 with their shotgun like groupings is a better choice

you also need to beaware of hydrostatic shock ........ the faster a bullet travels , the greater hydrostatic shock is put into the soft tissue of a animal .

this is great to putting down a animal reall really fast ....... but it turns huge sections of soft tissue ( ie meat ) into blood jello . ( again if you aim for the lungs this isn't really a issue , but hit something like the spine and you can turn all the meat around the spine into a gooey mess .... )

after rereading your post , your probally better off with a 45-70 , or even a 45 colt / 454 casull / 44 mag rifle, with their heavy slow moving bullets

 

[bisonhd]

Ah Oh. This is going to turn into yet another one of those 223 threads if posters don't read the OP's original post. He's already been convinced that 223 is what he will use. Wants to know with what factory load?

 

[Amphibious]

Would something like this be appropriate? it has a hollow point and is over the 60grain mark.

HORNADY SUPERFORMANCE 223 REM 75GR BTHP
]

that is MATCH ammo, NOT HUNTING ammo. do not try to use this on game.

 

[USP]

The problem is how many hunting type rifles have twist rates fast enough to use the specialty heavy stuff in .223 (alot of that stuff is match ammo or military type stuff as well). I think to go past 70 + grains you are looking at at least 1:8 or faster.

 

[LawrenceN]

that is MATCH ammo, NOT HUNTING ammo. do not try to use this on game.

X2!!!! Though I personally am much happier with my .308 for deer, If the man has a good rifle and is a very good shot, he SHOULD be able to put his animal down with one well placed round. My rifle can put 5 rounds into a nickel at 100 yds. Though I have taken most of my deer in the classic heart shot, I have taken deer with spine and head shots. As we stand hunt, all the deer we've shot were basically ambushed. Typically, we'll see a deer coming, get into position and calmed down, wait for it to enter a clean field of fire, line up the shot and drop the animal clean. I was leading a doe passing in the woods, and when her head came past the tree, I fired and broke her spine just back of the skull. She dropped like a stone and never twitched. If I wasn't supremely confident of my ammunition, my rifle, and my own skill, I wouldn't dream of taking a shot like that. If it were my rifle, I'd try all the soft point hunting ammo I could beg borrow or steal until I found the one that gave me the best possible groups and that would be my hunting load. That's what I've done in past, and now that I'm finally re-loading, I'll work up different loads for each rifle until I find the best performance for each one. That will be my hunting load.

 

[Major Sights]

you want to use the 223 and you don't reload ....... why bother then ......

get a 243 / 6mm or larger as there is tons of comercially available ammo out there ..... hell even a sks in 7.62x39 with their shotgun like groupings is a better choice

I don't reload *CURRENTLY* I know that is the BEST option for .223 but first need to purchase the rifle, the scope the bi-pod the ammo to practice with first and then the hunting rounds. If you would like to ship over a press with all the items needed for reloading I would be more then happy to do that. but until then, factory ammo it is.

Yes I realize "neck" shots are not good I was meaning more so the spinal column running through the neck, and not the soft tissue.



To everyone else wanting to debate the ethics of this, NO this is not a debate on weather or not I can/can't, should/shouldn't use a .223. It is a question of finding the best round to do the job. If you have an opinion of why I shouldn't/can't use a .223 then, as your mother probably told you at one point "if you don't have anything nice to say, then F##k off!"


@Amphibious- Thank you, I did realize that round was match ammo but wasn't sure of its "game taking" abilities. I will NOT use that round.

Anyone think of a round I could use? Rifle being used is a Remington 700 in .223 with a 1:9 twist.

 

[djchapman]

are you using a scope ? whats your max distance for a shot ? 223 is light for deer!! Yes it will do the job but so will a well placed shot from a .22 .. from 50 yds keep in mind if your hunting in wooded areas with such a light cal the smallest twig that u cant see with the naked eye will alter your shot vastly i would suggest moving up in calibre there are so many other choices much better suited for bush hunting

 

[shoota]

I am going to give you my 2 cents, as well I am going to answer your original question

Well I would never hunt a Whitetail in the northern US or all of Canada with a .223 (except those small coastal BC deer), their bodies are just bigger than their southern cousins, watch the hunting shows southern deer are the size of large dogs with genetically grown antlers, Florida, South Carolina etc. I would probably take a .223 to avoid excess meat damage and overkill on one of those but for the rest of North America, you need a decent deer cartridge and I don't consider a .223 to be decent enough, yes with a close range accurate shot it can be done.

But it sounds like you don't have much hunting experience can you honestly say you aren't going to have the buck feaver when you get a nice deer in your sights? A few inches in any direction from the vitals is going to lead to an injured deer and you having a s**tty feeling in your gut, then you are going to wish you picked up a decent Whitetail round/rifle. Part of Hunting is being ethical, just because you can doesn't mean you should, is it really ethical to take a .223 to hunt Whitetail I would say no.

But if you must they list these for deer:

223 Remington 64 gr. Super-X® Power-Point®
http://www.winchester.com/Products/rifle-ammunition/super-x/power-point/Pages/X223R2.aspx

I would really try to get my hands on some of the new power max bonded in 223 65 grain:

http://winchesterproductdemos.winchester.com/PowerMax.html#/WatchTheVideo

 

[USP]

You location is Peterborough, do your WMUs allow for rifle hunting your way? Alot of southern Ontario and stuff is Shotgun season only.

I am puzzled that as you dont hunt and dont reload how you feel that .223 is the way to go?

What possible benefit is there to using this round on Deer?

I guess when you shoot the deer and just blow a chunk out its neck and it runs away, maybe next season you might get something heavier?

 

[Dukester]

I don't reload *CURRENTLY* I know that is the BEST option for .223 but first need to purchase the rifle, the scope the bi-pod the ammo to practice with first and then the hunting rounds.

Once you got that bi-pod let us know what flash suppressor you are using.

You truly are a flagship member of the 223 for deer crowd, and an example to us all.

LOL

Oh, my recommendation - 40 grain varmint grenades, less chance of anything being injured after your first unintended targets take hits!

lol

too funny

 

[Major Sights]

are you using a scope ? whats your max distance for a shot ? 223 is light for deer!! Yes it will do the job but so will a well placed shot from a .22 .. from 50 yds keep in mind if your hunting in wooded areas with such a light cal the smallest twig that u cant see with the naked eye will alter your shot vastly i would suggest moving up in calibre there are so many other choices much better suited for bush hunting

Yes, using a scope 3x9. Where my stand is, surrounded by tall old hardwoods with very little twigs in the way just solid trees, probably 75-100y line of sight. Up there I would only shoot within the 75-80 yard, but every deer I have shot has been under 30y (Bow hunter) I have patience...


shoota- I do have hunting experience, and yes everyone, no matter who has a minute or so of buck fever but since I don't go out hunting with the intention of bringing home the biggest baddest deer in all the land I am able to calm myself much quicker. To me its just a beautiful steak waiting to be cooked. I have passed on may of deer before because the rifle I had been using was unfamiliar to me (apprentice hunter at the time borrowing dads, uncles, friends rifles) and didn't want to risk it.

USP- WMU 60 (North of Stony Lake) is a rifle zone. Not sure where you read that I am NOT a hunter... I am however a new PAL owner but been around guns almost... well turned 24 last week so 24 years... I have asked about using .223 here, my hunting buddies, and lots of local hunters of where I grew up... even got a story of how one guys dad was unable to buy food to put on the table back in the 50's would just sit in a brush pile with some crab apples in front and wait for the deer to come in and then pop them one in the head with a .22lr...

The majority of the people I talked (face to face not post to post) to were in favor of the .223 round WITH proper discipline in shooting, understanding of the rifle and its capabilities (no 300+yard shots for me ) and proper bullet. This is why I am asking about the proper bullet for the job.

If you would like me to be as ethical as possible (in your opinion) then help me choose the right round.

 

[Major Sights]

Once you got that bi-pod let us know what flash suppressor you are using.

You truly are a flagship member of the 223 for deer crowd, and an example to us all.

LOL

Oh, my recommendation - 40 grain varmint grenades, less chance of anything being injured after your first unintended targets take hits!

lol

too funny

so.... stabilization is a bad thing?... hmm..... ok.... where my stand is I have a seat and could use a longer bipod to make my shot as steady as possible and you laugh? thanks for the great recommendation on the round too... really appreciate it...

 

[Amphibious]

i would get someone to handload the 50gr Barnes TSX. should work great on the ontario deer. White Tail are small, and you won't be shooting far...

Federal loads the 50gr TSX