Need help with newly bought factory 9mm ammunition... (picture).

Requiem said:
And I can attest to that. OP here, final outcome of this situation below.

I went to Flaherty first thing in the morning before coming in into the office. The gentlemen there were very courteous & helpful. The main guy (manager maybe, I don't know them personally) asked to see the bullets I was bringing back, inspected them and rapidly agreed that I was correct and that there was something wrong with them (and unlike some people on this forum, never suggested that I might be responsible).

He sent me to the back where the ammos are stored with a younger clerk who started opening boxes to find & validate a replacement. After opening 5, it became obvious that they all suffered from the same problem. We found one that looked better (all the headstamps were the same, and they all had the same height), but even then they showed bulging around the bullet seating. All the similar boxes of 50 I saw there were flawed. That was also the only brand they had.

But then the guy fetched a "value pack". They are the same winchester 115gr, but they come in boxes of 100 and are just loose in the box without the neat little styrofoam holding tray. Even to my untrained eye, it was immediately obvious that these were right. The headstamps were all "win 9mm luger", they were all equally clean and shinier than the others, they were all the same height, and they showed no bulging what so ever.

Since I had bought 3x50, the guys proposed to give me one of those and keep opening boxes of 50 until we found one that was OK. I told him that I had somewhat lost confidence in the boxes of 50 and that I would be more comfortable grabbing 2 value packs, paying for the difference as appropriate.

The guy didn't hesitate for a second and apologized for the inconvenience. I paid the difference and left a satisfied customer. Incidentally, the value packs are cheaper, so I put in only $6 more and left with 50 bullets more (2x100). So I'm happy.

Props to Flaherty's for handling this like pros. They are currently pulling their boxes of 50 off the shelves and opening them to check. Discussing amongst themselves, they mentioned that they'd bring it up with the winchester guys. So it looks like it was a bad batch.

Thanks everyone for their input.

P.s.: I can also post pictures of my receipts, visa slip, and exchange receipts if my word is still being questioned.
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GOOD! An EXCELLENT mark to Al Flaherty's for the professional approach in resolving this concern.
 
JB said:
they should gave you the xtra 50 rounds free for your trouble :rolleyes:
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It would have been nice but I have to say that most of the trouble I had with it was due to my inexperience. A knowledgeable shooter would have known they were wrong without having to post here with an accompanying picture and all that. Some people may even have caught it on the spot before leaving the store in the first place. And I did offer the pay the difference outright.

In the end, the shop is a 15mins drive away from work, so it all worked out fine. I'm satisfied with the final result.
 
JB said:
they should gave you the xtra 50 rounds free for your trouble :rolleyes:
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I was thinking about that too. But I've kinda rationalized the situation to myself.

Here's what I came up with;

The OP and the staff are kinda stunned about the whole situation, since this is not normal and probably the first time it's happened to the store. So everyone is kinda disoriented or preoccupied thinking, how this happened.

The staff is trying to find a suitable replacement and the OP stated that he's not to confident with the 50 pack and offers to pay the difference on the two 100 packs. The clerk/manager says sure and a deal is done.

I'm sure if the customer asked to cut a deal, the staff would of made some kind of concession. But because the OP first offered to pay the difference, they took the "power of suggestion" and went with it.
 
Glad to hear things have worked out. Being a newb to shooting as well, these guys have been number one in service to me. Being the most helpful with suggestions and ideas. I would hate to lose confidence in them.
I have bought quite a few firearms(this sport/hobby is like crack, not that i have done crack or anything) from them in the last 6 months and nothing but excellent experiences.
thanks to reading this post i will now check ammo before leaving.
 
lanis said:
Trust is earned, not given.

Attacking last remaining gun store in Toronto, just when they are giving an honest effort to expand their business, is not taken kindly here.

In decades of shooting under my belt, I have never ever seen reputable gun store sell reloads, as factory ammunition.

This is an illegal act, and could shut them down for business permanently, and all this is coming from someone who just joined CGN.

All that being said, it is not impossible, but highly unlikely.

If it happened, I am certain that store was duped and will deal with affected customers fairly.
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I don't think the OP ever suggested they were reloads, until members here did!
 
mlehtovaara said:
I don't think the OP ever suggested they were reloads, until members here did!
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To be honest, before this incident, I'm not sure I could have told a reload from a manufactured bullet. As far as I know, these could still have been poorly manufactured ammo. My initial assumption was that it was a mix of 115, 124 & 143, which shows a lot about how little I know.

Also, my intent, I hope it's clear now, has never been to "attack" anyone. I was merely stating the facts and trying to understand what I was looking at.
 
Shep546 said:
Never been to Al's, how many employees does he have?

Comes across to me like an employee botched a s**t load of reloads, realised he just wasted $200 on reloading components and thought he could pull the ol' switcheroo and have it fall on winchester.
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absurd assumption.

as for Al's, they should have happily replaced all three boxes with Value packs. The inconvenience and potential catastrophe is not insignificant to the op. in any case, nice catch op. and nicely handled.
 
This is quite interesting,Ive just seen the post.

A friend of mine who just bought a shadow,bought a few boxes of Winchester white box from the local gun shop to try his new gun at the range.He was getting a lot of jams,and looking closer,it was obvious that the LOA of the rounds was way over spec and wedging themselves in the mag.I had a look at the ammo and it looked exactly the same as the OP.There were various headstamps and the LOAs of the rounds varied wildly.I told him to stop shooting these and take the ammo back to the store.This ammo was sold as factory rounds,and not as reloads,although they certainly look as if some novice reloader had a go at them

Now the thing that I find interesting is that we are on Vancouver island but this looks like the same issue as the OP,so difficult to blame an individual dealer for this.I havent heard back from my friend yet,but I would really like to find out what cuts with this winchester "factory" ammo.

Anyone else out there noticed any strange ammo?
 
Shep546 said:
Never been to Al's, how many employees does he have?

Comes across to me like an employee botched a s**t load of reloads, realised he just wasted $200 on reloading components and thought he could pull the ol' switcheroo and have it fall on winchester.
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In fairness to AF, we are not sure who did what. Could have been switched @ AF by a pathetic insider, the Canadian Distributor/importer or somewhere in between. From now on, check each and every ammo purchased regardless if it is a commercial reload or a factory load. Vigilance is the key to safety. AF should definitely notify Winchester about this incident. No accident is at least the happier ending we got out of this safety concern.
 
Don't blame the store. I bought 2 boxes of Winchester Q4172 9mm 115grains at Latulippe store in Quebec City last spring and the boxes contain mixed headstamp (WIN 9mm Luger and WCC 10 + a symbol).

I did notice at this moment the mixed headstamp but didn't worry about it. I didn't shoot them yet and i didn't measure the OAL yet. I will check with my calliper soon and keep you informed of the result but to my eyes they seem to be the same OAL.

Lot number :*24DF51
 
mlehtovaara said:
I don't know about that.

This isn't the first time there has been a thread about similar issues with this same ammo, I believe.

Usually it is only a couple rounds out of spec though.
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My bad,

Just in my head it didn't add up when you think about how an assembly line would work for mass produced ammo. It would make sense if the last couple rows were out of spec but random rounds scattered through out doesn't add up unless something seriously went wrong in the manufacturing process.
 
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