(never mind, OLD, OLD, OLD, please IGNORE)

There is an unwritten rule which developed in UseNET conversations, back when newsgroups were the height of computer information exchange (so we're talking 80s to mid 90s?) - the rule said, if you brought Nazis into any argument, to support or justify or explain your position, you automatically lost that argument (unless it was an argument about the Nazis, of course).

I think we need a rule like that dealing with 9/11: if you bring 9/11 into a conversation to justify something, unless it's something that actually IS related to hijacking airliners using knives, you lose your argument. Because it is just sooo waaaaay over the top. "9/11" has become the modern version of "ohh, if it saves one life, it will be worth it" - a meaningless statement which can be used to support/justify anything.

(off topic)
Different world after 9/11? Give me a break. We've had terrorist attacks, suicide attacks, civilians killed, etc, for decades before 9/11; this was just the first time it happened to north americans, who always thought they were immune. The only thing that's changed is it opened their eyes a bit to what the world is really like; the world itself hasn't changed one bit.
(/off topic)
 
Popurhedoff said:
You have to remember this is Post 911 and this is a hotel next to an International airport, this airport took in almost a hundred airliners that were diverted on 911... I applaud the staff for their due diligence and the police for their follow up and subsequent dismissal of the investigation.
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If you truly and honestly believe in what you wrote, you are welcome to sort my blue bin every week and harrass me about empty ammo boxes. Why, go ahead, that's the same thing as leaving them at the hotel, coffee shop or Walmart. Why, send ERT - it's too dangerous out there.
 
omen said:
Sooo.. a bunch of empty (Empty, EMPTY!!) Winchester USA boxes prompted a call to the RCMP... Hmmm.... :puke:

If/when the nationals go back to NS and if that hotel is the match hotel, we'll need to make sure we speak to the manager ahead of time, and explain some things to him/her....

;)
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Sorry to hear that Omen. The call of inquiry doesn't wrankle me as much as some of the others here, but its does seem to have been a somewhat hostile call, so I am pretty certian it wasn't from an NS RCMP CGN member.
I think Pops statement is more true than folks want to acknowledge. I doubt the hotel took making the call to the Mounties lightly (as an irrelevant side note, I worked with a company in Hali that had a hotel, which had been the scene of a shooting [drug deal gone bad] where the night deskman ended up wrestling the shotgun from the bad guy).
As someone else in this thread knows, there are alot of touchy police in this world when it comes to guns, in, near, or around airplanes. I think you will find the hotels at/near airports have stepped up thier 'security' quite a bit in the last few years.
 
omen said:
There is an unwritten rule which developed in UseNET conversations, back when newsgroups were the height of computer information exchange (so we're talking 80s to mid 90s?) - the rule said, if you brought Nazis into any argument, to support or justify or explain your position, you automatically lost that argument (unless it was an argument about the Nazis, of course).

I think we need a rule like that dealing with 9/11: if you bring 9/11 into a conversation to justify something, unless it's something that actually IS related to hijacking airliners using knives, you lose your argument. Because it is just sooo waaaaay over the top. "9/11" has become the modern version of "ohh, if it saves one life, it will be worth it" - a meaningless statement which can be used to support/justify anything.
Click to expand...


Well since you brought it up...

Hotel next to the Internationa Airport; empty ammo box in garbage; Post 9/11 (hence beefed up security, additional protocols)... DUH...still can't make a vague connection? Decretion on the side of caution is all it is, and a good call.

Not a meaningless statement at all if arrived from the proper context. But I do like your unwritten rule thingy...

Anyone that continously posts whines on the internet should be E-Biatch-Slapped... remember ...

The planets revolve around the sun... not the other way around :p
 
Could someone please explain to me, like I was a 6 year old, the connection between ammunition and 9/11? Or, in fact, betwen ammo and any terrorist attacks or threats which made the news in the past, ohh, 5 years? What terrorist attacks or threats involved the use of ammo?

The only connection is that, to the ignorant public, fed daily gang shooting news reports, "guns" and anything to do with guns (such as ammo) are always linked, in their minds, to evil, violence, horror, crime, terror, etc, regardless of what instruments are/were actually used to commit all those acts (like 9/11). This explains what happened, but I'm sorry, it does not justify it.

I live close to an elementary school. A passer-by sees empty boxes in my recycling blue box, so it's reasonable and justifyable for me to get a visit from the local swat team? That would probably be a better case for police action than empty boxes in a hotel room, located 5min from one of the largest shooting ranges on the east coast.

The biggest effect of the 9/11 attacks is that we are bending over backwards to accomodate security mechanisms blindly, anything done in the name of securty or anti-terriorism is good and worthy regardless of what, if any, effect or impact that particular action has. Very much like gun control - anything done in the name of gun control is expected to have the blind support of the society, since "gun control" is very important, and we need to be safe from gun violence, right? There is no common sense anywhere anymore.

Fine, international airport 5min away. So ####ing what? What are you going to do with pistol ammo? You can't get it through securty, right? you can't get guns through security. Checked in, it's useless as a weapon.
 
Unfortunately the hotel was the hotel used for IPSC. He didn't just show up there alone. Weren't they advised that this was going to be the host hotel for this event. Were they unable to do an internet search for IPSC and see what it was? Did they have no interest in their clients? Screw them they were wrong! Complain.
 
Omen, make no mistake there are plenty of those in law enforcment and intelligence fields that welcomed 9-11. This basically gave them a green light in many areas to increase police powers, search and seizure, wire tapping and other clandestine operations. South of the border theres no denying that since 9-11 peoples rights and freedoms have been curtailed. Yeah we fight for freedom by curtailing it.

I see Tritiums point and its solid and valid. But at the same time there seems to be abit of excessive justification for an investigation that at best is nothing more than a waste of police resources.

ALthough the true #######s here are the staff of the Hilton, it bothers me that no matter what the outcome that fellow police inevitable always support other police no matter how frivolous the investigation.

We need to change things, so that in our society when we see empty ammo boxes left in hotel rooms the response is different. If police resources are truly streched as thin as possible...it seems apparent that they always have the resources left over to harass law abiding gun owners...

As theres plenty of daily examples of property crime and theft and assault where they dont even bother to make a report or show up..
 
Actually if you read all the posts, it WASNT the IPSC madated hotel:ar15:

And comparing empty boxes in a hotel room to a blue bin outside your house is garbage. A hotel spends alot of time and money on security for their guests and for them to spend 3-4 minutes to find out that the boxes were used for a weekend of fun shoot after police made a 2 or 3 minute phonecall and not for loading several pistols was worth every minute.

You can rant and rave about unfair it was for him to take 2 minutes to talk to someone from the RCMP on the phone, but its not like they kicked in his door or the hotel tried to embarass him in the lobby.

Being pro-gun is all well and good, but there's a second side to every story. Including the hotel who wants to make sure everyone stays safe.
 
I wonder what hotel staff would have done if it had been razor blade packaging or the containers for box cutters, I believe the weapons of choice in the 9/11 incident.
 
No one was hurt. No one lost an eye. Everyone has a job to do, no matter how remedial it can get some times (ie: dog complaints, etc.). they got a job to do, and I don't imagine they get a joy out of calling you Omen, but they are responsible to follow up and close the file.
no one stuck a finger up your bum and asked you what you had for dinner;....:puke:
....well not in this incident anyway...:p
 
It's hard to get an idea, that legal things can't be investigated? I'll repeat in capital letters: empty cartons are legal, regardless of what is written on them. Do you get it now?
 
Well, I think that we've all had a chance to voice our options about this, lessons have been learned, and all that.. This might be a good time to stop - we'll probably just end up going round and 'round and 'round in circles here, from now on...

I'll let you guys know if any new developments come up, but I'm not expecting any... ;)

:beerchug:
 
I don't understand the problem??? RCMP called Omen and that was it, nobody got into trouble over that. Come on guys, nothing wrong with leaving empty ammo boxes in hotel, and nothing wrong with reporting unusual item by a cleaner to his boss, who just follows the rules.

My question is,
how some of you will feel when you come form church on Sunday and find some 20 empty cases from 50BMG on your lawn. Would you laugh about?
I would most likely investigate how they end up on my lawn.

Same with poor, underpaid cleaner in the hotel, he is used to condoms and beer cans but not ammo boxes, how many Canadians actively shoot pistols?
 
^20 empty 50BMGs? your lucky you didnt get mugged by somebody on this board for the brass...

best hide the stuff and sell it later on...
 
Mike K said:
The thing to do at the next large match where a bunch of people are staying at at hotel like that would be to have everybody leave some empty boxes in their garbage.
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Great idea.

Such a different world out east. 2 or 3 times a year someone will bring their new gun to work to show to fellow workers. When the public has seen this they were more interested in looking at the new gun then calling the cops.
 
I have left blood stained towels at a hotel and no one ever called for "follow-up"...

Funny thing is neither did anyone from the downtown Hilton in Chicago, when I forgot my $200 folding knife on the bedside table...

Hmmm....
 
Boxes They Were Worried About Boxes

BOXES THEY WERE WORRIED ABOUT BOXES?:confused: I would of been more worried about your used hand towels by the bed!:eek: :puke: They should treat that as HAZMAT or BIO-WASTE!! I hope the staff was wearing gloves!:D
 
Our society has become excessively conditioned to associate firearms with criminals and bad news. I think that it has a lot to do with what the media collectively decides is newsworthy. A recent shooting here in Calgary results in front page and television lead stories about several shots fired in the street and emphasizes the regretable loss of life. But, we never (or at least very rarely) seem to hear about the many dozens of peaceful shooters and hundreds or thousands of rounds fired at even the four shooting ranges that are located within the city limits during that same day (and every day). The percentage of gun shots in the city on that day that were of a criminal nature is miniscule, but those are the only ones that the public at large hears about. Automobile collisions kill far more people than guns do, but because everyone sees cars being used peacefully every day, they know and understand the non-criminal uses of them. We need to work on bringing the safe and legal use of firearms into the same light. I'm just not sure how to do that.
 
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