New 870`s have problems?

canadiangunuser said:
The 870P has a plastic trigger guard? Are you certain? I'm not trying to insult you or argue, but I am under the impression that the 870P specifically has a metal trigger group and is much better polished than an express- as though it's an upgraded wingmaster. An new express, or even a "tactical" runs $400-500, whereas a new 870 Police Magnum runs $800. What would the price difference be if not metal parts and decent QC. Perhaps you mean some type of 870 tactical model with lots of fancy dress up parts? Usually these are just express models with extras.
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No I'm talking a #25015 870P here.

They went to a plastic guard recently, I'm not sure that's such a big deal as the sintered aluminum of the metal one is not exactly confidence inspiring IMO but it matters to some. As far as fit and finish my 'P' was none too impressive, the action bars looked almost like sand castings, the parkerizing might as well have been spraypaint, the chamber was rough and there was just a lot of sharp edges and grittiness throughout.

A friend of mine had one with a consecutive serial number and it was the same story. I managed to get mine squared away with no small amount of effort on my part but I doubt I'll ever buy a recent Remington again.
 
tjhaile said:
Besides having a plastic trigger group, rough chambers, and a rust-prone finish, the 870 express also has plastic magazine cap and spring retainer instead of the ball detent on the barrel lug and steel spring cup retainer.

This setup uses a dimpled magazine tube to hold the retainer in, which prevents a magazine extension from functioning unless the dimples are removed. In addition, the lack of a ball detent means that if you add an extension, you will have to either have a ball detent installed or use blue Loctite on the threads to hold it on.

Even if you have no intention of fitting a magazine extension, the Express retainer setup is still cheap and junky, as well as being "non standard" compared to other 870 models.

This does not apply to the Express models with extended magazines. These guns use the conventional ball detent on the barrel lug.

If you must buy new 870, get either the Wingmaster or Police models so as not to encourage Remington to continue to make shoddy products. If cost is an issue, there are lots of reasonably priced used 870s kicking around, which can be readily modified to your requirements.
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O.k. everyone is always b!tching about the "plastic"
I'm yet to see a "plastic" trigger gaurd fail.........Have you?
As for the mag cap retainer setup I dont like it ether, but it's cheaper to make and we all want an express price but wingmaster quality.

Oh yeah and there was a company making handguns with "plastic" frames.
hmmm what was their name?........shoot, I'd bet you've heard of it too.....



ohh yeah!!......GLOCK!!
 
870P said:
No I'm talking a #25015 870P here.

They went to a plastic guard recently, I'm not sure that's such a big deal as the sintered aluminum of the metal one is not exactly confidence inspiring IMO but it matters to some. As far as fit and finish my 'P' was none too impressive, the action bars looked almost like sand castings, the parkerizing might as well have been spraypaint, the chamber was rough and there was just a lot of sharp edges and grittiness throughout.

A friend of mine had one with a consecutive serial number and it was the same story. I managed to get mine squared away with no small amount of effort on my part but I doubt I'll ever buy a recent Remington again.
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Wow, that's unfortunate, so what the hell is the point of a "P" model then? Do you have any older models to compare the recent one to, so you can note what exactly the differences are- so that anyone can look for an "older" model that isn't rickety?
 
TBMH said:
O.k. everyone is always b!tching about the "plastic"
I'm yet to see a "plastic" trigger gaurd fail.........Have you?
As for the mag cap retainer setup I dont like it ether, but it's cheaper to make and we all want an express price but wingmaster quality.

Oh yeah and there was a company making handguns with "plastic" frames.
hmmm what was their name?........shoot, I'd bet you've heard of it too.....



ohh yeah!!......GLOCK!!
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I'm glad someone finally said that. I've got 2 870 expresses, one with a Remington barrel and one with...gasp:eek:..a Norinco barrel. ZERO issues with either. Normally all I shoot is cheap bulk federal. If someone is really bothered by the cheaper detent system it's not that much to replace it (aprox $80). Much less than the price difference between a wingmaster/police and express.
 
My issue isn't with a little bit of plastic this, and ball detent that. The issue is that ALL of these things together with poorer QC are causing concerns. I chimed in asking about the 870P because I had expected that this model was immune to these problems- apparently it isn't. A pump action shotgun is pretty simple, and if I can't take it out of the box and beat it up a little, and fire cheapo crap out of it then something has gone wrong.
 
TBMH said:
O.k. everyone is always b!tching about the "plastic"
I'm yet to see a "plastic" trigger gaurd fail.........Have you?
As for the mag cap retainer setup I dont like it ether, but it's cheaper to make and we all want an express price but wingmaster quality.

Oh yeah and there was a company making handguns with "plastic" frames.
hmmm what was their name?........shoot, I'd bet you've heard of it too.....



ohh yeah!!......GLOCK!!
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Frankly, I don't care how well the plastic trigger groups work; I just find them unacceptably cheap and nasty for my tastes. I, for one, am willing to accept paying a higher price for quality.

As for Glocks, they work OK, but they aren't my cup of tea either.

I buy guns for my own enjoyment and I see no shame in admitting that subjective preferences and aesthetics are part of the equation.
 
1300_stainless said:
X2 Maybe some are just lemons? All I shoot from mine is cheapo shells. I've fallen on it, dropped it, etc and it's still kickin. I agree the finish is cheap but a little gun oil goes a long way.
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I think it's mostly the guys using 'em. I find alot of big talk and not much game on this site. I've had many a 870 and they all have worked just fine. If you don't like the remmy's then buy a mossburg or a chinese gun............
 
tjhaile said:
Frankly, I don't care how well the plastic trigger groups work; I just find them unacceptably cheap and nasty for my tastes. I, for one, am willing to accept paying a higher price for quality.

As for Glocks, they work OK, but they aren't my cup of tea either.

I buy guns for my own enjoyment and I see no shame in admitting that subjective preferences and aesthetics are part of the equation.
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.............So have you seen a "plastic" trigger gaurd fail?
You sound like you have rich taste a not much budget. maybe you should stick to your holland and holland and leave the pump guns to us poo' folk.
 
canadiangunuser said:
Wow, that's unfortunate, so what the hell is the point of a "P" model then? Do you have any older models to compare the recent one to, so you can note what exactly the differences are- so that anyone can look for an "older" model that isn't rickety?
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I don't have any others on hand at the moment and my basis of comparison is any number of older models owned by others. I'm not a gunsmith but you can pretty much tell at a glance that the older stuff is just better fit and finished and has slicker actions and controls, even ones that don't have a lot of rounds through them. This isn't absolute as you might run into an older "lemon" or a newer gun that's well made but the older stuff usually a cut above.

The 870P is probably still the best overall "hard use" shotgun being made at this point but that probably says more about the cheapening of shotgun manufacturing in general than anything.
 
Only things I heard was the silly little key thing sometimes giving people trouble and the usual need to break them in with 2-300 rounds to get them to work smoothly.
 
RobSmith said:
Only things I heard was the silly little key thing sometimes giving people trouble and the usual need to break them in with 2-300 rounds to get them to work smoothly.
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Yeah they suck but it's a easy fix.......s&j over sized safety it'll run ya about ten bucks.
 
TBMH said:
.............So have you seen a "plastic" trigger gaurd fail?
You sound like you have rich taste a not much budget. maybe you should stick to your holland and holland and leave the pump guns to us poo' folk.
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No, I haven't seen one fail, but that isn't the point; I don't LIKE them.

As I mentioned previously, you can get an old 870 and have the choke reamed out to modified to handle steel shot, usually for less than the cost of a new Express. I think this is a far better choice for a budget shotgun.
 
870P said:
I don't have any others on hand at the moment and my basis of comparison is any number of older models owned by others. I'm not a gunsmith but you can pretty much tell at a glance that the older stuff is just better fit and finished and has slicker actions and controls, even ones that don't have a lot of rounds through them. This isn't absolute as you might run into an older "lemon" or a newer gun that's well made but the older stuff usually a cut above.

The 870P is probably still the best overall "hard use" shotgun being made at this point but that probably says more about the cheapening of shotgun manufacturing in general than anything.
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Alright then, I'll just have to look closely. In general I know exactly what you are talking about as I've seen the "slickness" factor on certain models. Still, I'll be looking for as many metal parts as possible as a possible sign of reliability.
 
Thanks genius, I HAVE A GLOCK. My point was that the older models had metal parts, and the older models have shown better QC (this is also through my personal experience not just what 1 guy said on the internet)- so if I'm looking for an older model I will look for metal parts.

Secondly we are not talking about glocks. We are talking about models of the Remington 870 shotgun. Some of which are apparently having problems. Yes all guns will have problems- but WHY did Remington switch to platic parts? Did they issue a press release saying "now with the new and improved polymer parts!" or did they openly say "hey it's just as reliable but cheaper to make, and we'll pass along the savings". Honestly- did they say that? If they have officially said that it is a PRODUCT IMPROVEMENT than I stand corrected. If they just said "it's plastic now" then I don't like it. Lots of things have always been plastic and have always worked. The 870 used to be all metal and always worked, now it is less reliable and some parts are plastic. So unless this is done as a product improvement or to cut down on costs WHICH GET PASSED ALONG AS SAVINGS then to me it is a devious development. 870s aren't any cheaper then they used to be, and they aren't the same price. I would pay a little more for a few things to get a good gun. But if Remington skimps on a few things on THOUSANDS of guns then they make lots of money.

And to respond to what many people are likely thinking "you can buy it and upgrade it"- I don't want to. If a firearm is sold in whatever form, and then someone comes up with something novel and different that improves it, no problem. (surefires, side saddles, etc.) But if quality slides, or a company refuses to IMPROVE a product that people like when they could easily do it- I don't want to buy something one day and turn it in to the gunshop the next so that I can make it as good as it used to be when it came out of the box.
 
..........as I already said if you dont like remmys then buy a mossburg or a chinese gun.
My express has spend many months bumping around on commercial fishing boat, a ton of time in the bush and just as much time in my hands and is yet to fail.

Yes, my wingmaster "looks" nicer but do the metal parts make it any more reliable?
NOPE
Now as for the "savings" maybe remingtons aren't any cheaper but it is a lot more expensive to make them.



oh and I do belive the chinese guns have metal trigger groups!
 
TBMH said:
..........as I already said if you dont like remmys then buy a mossburg or a chinese gun.
My express has spend many months bumping around on commercial fishing boat, a ton of time in the bush and just as much time in my hands and is yet to fail.

Yes, my wingmaster "looks" nicer but do the metal parts make it any more reliable?
NOPE
Now as for the "savings" maybe remingtons aren't any cheaper but it is a lot more expensive to make them.



oh and I do belive the chinese guns have metal trigger groups!
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Well it appears that you have missed my all of my points completely. But I am not going to debate this anymore.

HAS ANYONE ELSE HAD ANY GOOD OR BAD EXPERIENCES WITH RELATIVELY NEW 870s?
 
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