New Aboriginal Hunting and Fishing Rights?

[tactical870]

I never said it made it right.............................I just said it has been taking place for years and the C.O's can lay all the charges they want, the crown prosecutors throw it out so it is just wasting yours and my tax dollars. The effort needs to be focused at the root of the problem.......finding politicians with the balls to say NO it is not ok to step outside the treaties you signed and go where you want. Do what you like on your home reservation but step off of it and the laws off the reserve apply to ALL.

Agreed.

Care to share the link or literature for this?

x2 - link please

Still no link....

I had a hell of a time finding any info on it. I have seen the internal MNR email regarding it though....

http://www.channel12.ca/News/LN/12-11-14/Williams_Treaty.aspx

A pretty quick and basic summary.

Heres one of the links

I think what most posters are getting at ( myself included ) is this. If an indian goes out hunting at night, out of season with a rifle and a spotlight and takes 4 moose. That is his given ancestrial right. If I, I white person, did that. I am breaking the laws which hunters are suppose to follow. Making me one of those " poachers " you speak of. And that is racist bullsh!t ! Those laws are there to protect and manage wildlife and should be followed by everyone. Including indians.

You are 100% correct. When those treaties were signed, many of the guns and hunting aids we have today were not available. There were next to no moose in this area, cars and electric lighting were uncommon. We also shot those natives who didn't abide by the rules. The North West Mounted Police used to publish a booklet instucting how to collect your bounty, which was supplied with certain "indian contract" guns. (actually a member on here owned one a couple years ago) Times have changed, and the law needs to as well.

 

[Dusty23]

I think what most posters are getting at ( myself included ) is this. If an indian goes out hunting at night, out of season with a rifle and a spotlight and takes 4 moose. That is his given ancestrial right. If I, I white person, did that. I am breaking the laws which hunters are suppose to follow. Making me one of those " poachers " you speak of. And that is racist bullsh!t ! Those laws are there to protect and manage wildlife and should be followed by everyone. Including indians.

Anyone regardless of race or ancestral rights who hunts at night with lights are poaching. That's a no brainer, and they should obviously be penalized.

Not once did I use the term racist! A lot of others seem to be throwing it around though. So who's screaming racist?

 

[Dusty23]

Agreed.







I had a hell of a time finding any info on it. I have seen the internal MNR email regarding it though....





You are 100% correct. When those treaties were signed, many of the guns and hunting aids we have today were not available. There were next to no moose in this area, cars and electric lighting were uncommon. We also shot those natives who didn't abide by the rules. The North West Mounted Police used to publish a booklet instucting how to collect your bounty, which was supplied with certain "indian contract" guns. (actually a member on here owned one a couple years ago) Times have changed, and the law needs to as well.

That's oppression at its finest right there! If the Savages get out of line, just shoot'em. Kinda similar to another well documented oppressed race. The Black Man, if he doesn't listen just beat him. Oh wait, there's that card again! Oops.

 

[sksavenger]

Anyone regardless of race or ancestral rights who hunts at night with lights are poaching. That's a no brainer, and they should obviously be penalized.

Not once did I use the term racist! A lot of others seem to be throwing it around though. So who's screaming racist?

Yes. I am calling it racism cause thats what it is.

 

[Slackbunny]

That's oppression at its finest right there! If the Savages get out of line, just shoot'em. Kinda similar to another well documented oppressed race. The Black Man, if he doesn't listen just beat him. Oh wait, there's that card again! Oops.

I think he was referring to the necessity of changing the law over time, not that it should be acceptable to shoot anybody. There was a time for these treaties, but that time is not now. Our laws have changed a great deal since these treaties were signed, and now it is time for those treaties to change as well. We no longer live in a world with unlimited resources, and conservation is EVERYBODY'S responsibility. We are all Canadians. We all share what resources are available. To tell one man that he can do something that another can not based solely on the color of his skin is racist plain and simple. And that is exactly what those treaties do. They are outdated and are blatant violations of my rights as a Canadian.

 

[titch--]

I think he was referring to the necessity of changing the law over time, not that it should be acceptable to shoot anybody. There was a time for these treaties, but that time is not now. Our laws have changed a great deal since these treaties were signed, and now it is time for those treaties to change as well. We no longer live in a world with unlimited resources, and conservation is EVERYBODY'S responsibility. We are all Canadians. We all share what resources are available. To tell one man that he can do something that another can not based solely on the color of his skin is racist plain and simple. And that is exactly what those treaties do. They are outdated and are blatant violations of my rights as a Canadian.

Ill vote for yeah

 

[bearkilr]

haha wow this thread again

Seems to be popping up quite often lately, doesn't it? Its good to discuss these things and get them out in the open. Many don't know the facts and believe what the media tells them.

Manitoba just passed a ruling that Metis share the same hunting/fishing rights with first nations, thanks again to an Ontario court ruling. Don't blame the governments, thank the judges.

 

[tactical870]

That's oppression at its finest right there! If the Savages get out of line, just shoot'em. Kinda similar to another well documented oppressed race. The Black Man, if he doesn't listen just beat him. Oh wait, there's that card again! Oops.

Not quite what I meant. What I'm getting at is that times have changed since these treaties were signed. I personally know of at least 6 moose shot in the past week (closed season, no tags, status indian). While I truly believe not everyone will abuse this right, I know for a fact there's enough guys around to really hurt our local game and fish stocks.....

 

[old hound]

some groups and races have more rights than others in Canada.

 

[firemachine69]

And not to mention the no income tax when working on their reserves............

I'll GLADLY let them live tax-free on their reserves, so long as I don't have to fork over one more dime of tax dollars to those thieves!

I think he was referring to the necessity of changing the law over time, not that it should be acceptable to shoot anybody. There was a time for these treaties, but that time is not now. Our laws have changed a great deal since these treaties were signed, and now it is time for those treaties to change as well. We no longer live in a world with unlimited resources, and conservation is EVERYBODY'S responsibility. We are all Canadians. We all share what resources are available. To tell one man that he can do something that another can not based solely on the color of his skin is racist plain and simple. And that is exactly what those treaties do. They are outdated and are blatant violations of my rights as a Canadian.

Thank you for summing up the current issue so nicely.

 

[sulisa]

Time for change, time for decisions. Leave the reserve and live like the rest of us, no tax breaks, no special accommodations, or stay on the reserve, and live in the traditional manner (we'll have to expand some of the reserves to ensure a proper amount of flora and fauna). We'll fence it in and you'll need to apply to Canada to come out to visit. Their insistence on continuing on in this in-between hell in which they live (poverty, alcohol and drug abuse, unemployment) has to stop. Are they going to continue like this for another 100 years?

Why should the guy in the next office over get the same pay I get, but have so much less taxes, and be able to hunt anywhere, anytime? We were born in the same country, at the same time, and both of our families have roots in Canada going back 300 years. That his family goes back farther than that should be as irrelevant as it is to the new Canadian who just became a full citizen last week.

We just love to feel shame, and pity, and regret, and apologize for things we had nothing to do with. If the aboriginals want a special deal, they should dig up their ancestors from the 1600-1800s and sit them around a table with my relatives dug up from the 1600-1800s, because this trouble is between them, not between the living, and certainly shouldn't be something their and my great grand-kids will still be arguing about.

Edit: I'm not racist, if I was racist, I wouldn't care if they continued to live in substandard housing, with no schools. An endless supply of money will NOT fix this - only a fundamental, earth-shattering change in their lives will. Sadly, this means a look at the Math: If the land cannot provide, and they need to buy modern items like groceries, clothes etc (and that would make more sense than getting it from the land), PLUS if having it costs big bucks to fly these supplies into areas, PLUS if there is no revenue being generated in their communities, then that EQUALS destitute living, trying to manage how to allocate handouts. It can't be continued.

Sounds like an off-topic rant, but the should-I-stay-or-should-I-go decision is exactly the fix for this hunting/poaching problem. If they're on reserves, they can hunt that reserve dry, but no trespassing off it. If they want to hunt the whole area, then they have to drop their special accommodations, and join the lottery like the rest of us. Hunting (and fishing, in BC) the whole countryside dry doesn't work for the rest of us, or for Nature.

 

[hawk-i]

some groups and races have more rights than others in Canada.

You can thank Trudeau and his charter of rights for that!

 

[Highwind]

There are reasons why Elk, caribou, and Bison disappeared from their original homelands... And they have been re-stocked in some of these traditional homelands to try and re-establish them. And if your hunt just for trophies, I trust your eating the game that your get.

 

[boots-]

im the 13th generation born in canada on my dads side. 6th or so on my moms my family has been in logging and before that the fur trade since they came here. how much more canadian do you get? but i have no native blood in me so i have to follow laws that the natives don't. whatever "crime against tradition" we commited has been long paid for. it really is time for equal treatment under the law. thats not racist that how it is soposed to be there is a law we follow it or we risk punnishment. my great grandfather had a loaded handgun in his truck whenever he was out of town. i would go to jail for the same act no matter how much i pleaded it was tradition

 

[.264 Win Mag]

I wont comment on the whole not paying taxes and everything else cause I will just get frustrate.
What i will comment on is when people say I know lots of "whites" that just leave game and take the head or shoot game out of season, or pitlamp game. This is very frustrating and true but when they are caught the get punished when natives do it its called tradition and nothing happens. Whether its on their land or not, Pretty sure if i owned a quater or section of land that I couldnt do that on "my land." I strongly agree that certain laws pertaining to "first nations" needs to change guess that makes me racist!!

 

[Bland]

The law is a black and white animal. Treaty's have not been established in most of BC so there is no law. What a mess. The hunting/fishing rights cannot be established until the treaties have been settled. This is my understanding. If there is no treaty then there is no basis in law for a judge to make a ruling? Native rights are federal and hunting/fishing are provincial so another FUBAR.

 

[Kenny_G2]

There are reasons why Elk, caribou, and Bison disappeared from their original homelands... And they have been re-stocked in some of these traditional homelands to try and re-establish them.

Those reasons being over hunting by everyone (not just natives - buffalo are a good example) or policy decisions by government. For example, in Ontario the woodland caribou has been pushed further north because of logging techniques that encouraged moose habitat which was a government policy at the time.

 

[Enfield303]

This reminds me of a thread I started many moons ago. Whites abuse the rules just as much as natives. There are good and bad in every culture. To say that the natives are to blame for the lack of game is naive to say the least. I am metis, I have an MMF card, I buy tags just like everbody else. The Indian act just like our glorious firearms laws need to be scrapped. For those of us (white and otherwise) that choose to live in the bush, we should be able to hunt year round. If you live near a grocery store and do not need wild game to survive, TOO BAD.

 

[5440fight]

I think he was referring to the necessity of changing the law over time, not that it should be acceptable to shoot anybody. There was a time for these treaties, but that time is not now. Our laws have changed a great deal since these treaties were signed, and now it is time for those treaties to change as well. We no longer live in a world with unlimited resources, and conservation is EVERYBODY'S responsibility. We are all Canadians. We all share what resources are available. To tell one man that he can do something that another can not based solely on the color of his skin is racist plain and simple. And that is exactly what those treaties do. They are outdated and are blatant violations of my rights as a Canadian.

Bingo, best post here. The current policy of taking "blood money" depreciates any remaining dignity of the native society.

 

[CreamySmooth]

Go ask farmers in most of rural Saskatchewan why they are posting their land. Most will tell you it's not because of "non-Indian" hunters, because the number of tags bought keep dwindling down each year, there are less hunters than ever. Ask farmers why, and it's because they are sick of native bands from the area driving right onto their crop land, blasting 5 or 6 moose and loading up and leaving. No permission asked, much field damage and one pissed off farmer. I've been having problems with it on my land... it's all posted up now.