New Aboriginal Hunting and Fishing Rights?

I'm all for aboriginals having some extra rights,

I'm not. We all share the land and its resources and should all have equal rights and equal treatment under the law. Allowing uncontrolled hunting will cause devastation to animal populations and screws over every other ethical, responsible hunter. The myth that natives are any more stewards of the land than anyone else needs to be killed off for good.


Mark
 
I just recently became aware of a new ruling in a court case which allows aboriginal peoples to hunt without licenses, seasons or restrictions. I am not sure if this applies to all bands or just the local Anishinaabe (Curve Lake) band. Regardless, a number are already abusing the priviledge and quite a few deer have been shot this week with no tags required. I hear there is a moose hunt planned for the near future as well. I fear if this isn't stopped in the very near future, we will have little left to hunt in the area at all. Local MNR is under orders to not charge anyone with status. Anyone else know anything about this?

If they have no seasons or restrictions to obey, and don't need a licence, what are they abusing?
And remember, we're only guests here, in Canada.
 
If they have no seasons or restrictions to obey, and don't need a licence, what are they abusing?
And remember, we're only guests here, in Canada.
I'm no more a guest in this country than anyone of aboriginal descent.

Aboriginals do have special privileges and rights - that's been enshrined in Canadian law for hundreds of years. That's why they have special consideration, not because I'm a guest and they're not.

I think the problem is that those extra considerations are perceived by others as being abused.
 
I'm no more a guest in this country than anyone of aboriginal descent.

The way our Gov't is getting rid of our heritage and culture, so as to not offend the Asians, Muslims, and what have you, we'll be lucky to even have guest status.
We will be owed by our new immigrants and refugees(certainly out-numbered, anyways). Best to brush up on your Punjabian!
 
How is this racism? They do it here in northern sask and our deer, moose, elk and fish are all still good here. Sounds like some guys are more jealous then anything. I'm aboriginal but still buy tags so I can hunt with co- workers and friends that are not. I have never heard them call my rights racisist.... Hmmmm....
Cheers
Geoff
 
One other thing a lot of the youth and 20 something's that are aboriginal now don't even hunt so don't stress it. They lost lots of the cultural background from the late 70's on around here anyway.
 
How is this racism? They do it here in northern sask and our deer, moose, elk and fish are all still good here. Sounds like some guys are more jealous then anything. I'm aboriginal but still buy tags so I can hunt with co- workers and friends that are not. I have never heard them call my rights racisist.... Hmmmm....
Cheers
Geoff

It is racism on Governments behalf. It is perpetuating segragation and different standards for different skin colours. It is very obvious that these rights are heavily abused in some areas. Reserve land and surrounding habitats have dismal moose numbers.
 
I recall reading an article in the paper about 10 years ago regarding Native fishing.
They were pulling out thousands of salmon from the Fraser R, and selling them to non-natives.
Pickup truck boxes full of fish.
The DFO was all set to raid them, then at the last minute, the CO's got a call from their supervisors NOT to do anything. The frontline guys were so frustrated they took their story to the media.
 
I recall reading an article in the paper about 10 years ago regarding Native fishing.
They were pulling out thousands of salmon from the Fraser R, and selling them to non-natives.
Pickup truck boxes full of fish.
The DFO was all set to raid them, then at the last minute, the CO's got a call from their supervisors NOT to do anything. The frontline guys were so frustrated they took their story to the media.

The big case on the issue of selling fish was R. v. Van Der Peet 1996 CanLII 216 (SCC); 137 DLR (4th) 289; 109 CCC (3d) 1; 50 CR (4th) 1;

Here is the summary:
Per Lamer C.J. and La Forest, Sopinka, Gonthier, Cory, Iacobucci and Major JJ.: A purposive analysis of s. 35(1) must take place in light of the general principles applicable to the legal relationship between the Crown and aboriginal peoples. This relationship is a fiduciary one and a generous and liberal interpretation should accordingly be given in favour of aboriginal peoples. Any ambiguity as to the scope and definition of s. 35(1) must be resolved in favour of aboriginal peoples. This purposive analysis is not to be limited to an analysis of why a pre-existing doctrine was elevated to constitutional status.


Aboriginal rights existed and were recognized under the common law. They were not created by s. 35(1) but subsequent to s. 35(1) they cannot be extinguished. They can, however, be regulated or infringed consistent with the justificatory test laid out in R. v. Sparrow.


Section 35(1) provides the constitutional framework through which the fact that aboriginals lived on the land in distinctive societies, with their own practices, customs and traditions, is acknowledged and reconciled with the sovereignty of the Crown. The substantive rights which fall within the provision must be defined in light of this purpose. The French version of the text, prior jurisprudence of this Court and the courts of Australia and the United States, academic commentators and legal literature support this approach.


To be an aboriginal right an activity must be an element of a practice, custom or tradition integral to the distinctive culture of the aboriginal group claiming the right. A number of factors must be considered in applying the “integral to a distinctive culture” test. The court must take into account the perspective of the aboriginal peoples, but that perspective must be framed in terms cognizable to the Canadian legal and constitutional structure.


In assessing a claim to an aboriginal right a court must first identify the nature of the right being claimed in order to determine whether a claim meets the test of being integral to the distinctive culture of the aboriginal group claiming the right. To characterize an applicant's claim correctly, a court should consider such factors as the nature of the action which the applicant is claiming was done pursuant to an aboriginal right, the nature of the governmental regulation, statute or action being impugned, and the practice, custom or tradition being relied upon to establish the right. The activities must be considered at a general rather than specific level. They may be an exercise in modern form of a pre-contact practice, custom or tradition and the claim should be characterized accordingly.


To be integral, a practice, custom or tradition must be of central significance to the aboriginal society in question -- one of the things which made the culture of the society distinctive. A court cannot look at those aspects of the aboriginal society that are true of every human society (e.g., eating to survive) or at those aspects of the aboriginal society that are only incidental or occasional to that society. It is those distinctive features that need to be acknowledged and reconciled with the sovereignty of the Crown.


The practices, customs and traditions which constitute aboriginal rights are those which have continuity with the practices, customs and traditions that existed prior to contact with European society. Conclusive evidence from pre‑contact times about the practices, customs and traditions of the community in question need not be produced. The evidence simply needs to be directed at demonstrating which aspects of the aboriginal community and society have their origins pre‑contact. The concept of continuity is the means by which a "frozen rights" approach to s. 35(1) will be avoided. It does not require an unbroken chain between current practices, customs and traditions and those existing prior to contact. A practice existing prior to contact can be resumed after an interruption.


Basing the identification of aboriginal rights in the period prior to contact is not inconsistent with the inclusion of the Métis in the definition of “aboriginal peoples of Canada” in s. 35(2) of the Constitution Act, 1982. The history of the Métis and the reasons underlying their inclusion in the protection given by s. 35 are quite distinct from those relating to other aboriginal peoples in Canada. The manner in which the aboriginal rights of other aboriginal peoples are defined is not necessarily determinative of the manner in which the aboriginal rights of the Métis are defined.


A court should approach the rules of evidence, and interpret the evidence that exists, conscious of the special nature of aboriginal claims, and of the evidentiary difficulties in proving a right which originates in times where there were no written records of the practices, customs and traditions and customs engaged in. The courts must not undervalue the evidence presented by aboriginal claimants simply because that evidence does not conform precisely with the evidentiary standards applied in other contexts.


Courts considering a claim to the existence of an aboriginal right must focus specifically on the practices, customs and traditions of the particular aboriginal group claiming the right. Claims to aboriginal rights are not to be determined on a general basis.


In identifying those practices, customs and traditions that constitute the aboriginal rights recognized and affirmed by s. 35(1), a court must ensure that the practice, custom or tradition relied upon in a particular case is independently significant to the aboriginal community claiming the right. The practice, custom or tradition cannot exist simply as an incident to another practice, custom or tradition. Incidental practices, customs and traditions cannot qualify as aboriginal rights through a process of piggybacking on integral practices, customs and traditions.


A practice, custom or tradition, to be recognized as an aboriginal right need not be distinct, meaning "unique", to the aboriginal culture in question. The aboriginal claimants must simply demonstrate that the custom or tradition is a defining characteristic of their culture.

The fact that that practice, custom or tradition continued after the arrival of Europeans, and adapted in response to their arrival, is not relevant to determination of the claim; European arrival and influence cannot be used to deprive an aboriginal group of an otherwise valid claim to an aboriginal right. A practice, custom or tradition will not meet the standard for recognition of an aboriginal right, however, where it arose solely as a response to European influences.


The relationship between aboriginal rights and aboriginal title (a sub‑category of aboriginal rights dealing solely with land claims) must not confuse the analysis of what constitutes an aboriginal right. Aboriginal rights arise from the prior occupation of land, but they also arise from the prior social organization and distinctive cultures of aboriginal peoples on that land. In considering whether a claim to an aboriginal right has been made out, courts must look both at the relationship of an aboriginal claimant to the land and at the practices, customs and traditions arising from the claimant's distinctive culture and society. Courts must not focus so entirely on the relationship of aboriginal peoples with the land that they lose sight of the other factors relevant to the identification and definition of aboriginal rights.


The first step in the application of the integral to a distinctive culture test requires the Court to identify the precise nature of the appellant's claim to have been exercising an aboriginal right. Here, the appellant claimed that the practices, customs and traditions of the Sto:lo include as an integral element the exchange of fish for money or other goods. The significance of the practice, tradition or custom is relevant to the determination of whether that practice, custom or tradition is integral, but cannot itself constitute the claim to an aboriginal right. The claim must be based on the actual practices, customs and traditions related to the fishery, here the custom of exchanging fish for money or other goods.


The trial judge made no clear and palpable error which would justify an appellate court's substituting its findings of fact. These findings included: (1) prior to contact exchanges of fish were only "incidental" to fishing for food purposes; (2) there was no regularized trading system amongst the appellant's people prior to contact; (3) the trade that developed with the Hudson's Bay Company, while of significance to the Sto:lo of the time, was qualitatively different from what was typical of Sto:lo culture prior to contact; and, (4) the Sto:lo’s exploitation of the fishery was not specialized and that suggested that the exchange of fish was not a central part of Sto:lo culture. The appellant failed to demonstrate that the exchange of fish for money or other goods was an integral part of the distinctive Sto:lo culture which existed prior to contact and was therefore protected by s. 35(1) of the Constitution Act, 1982.
 
How is this racism? They do it here in northern sask and our deer, moose, elk and fish are all still good here. Sounds like some guys are more jealous then anything. I'm aboriginal but still buy tags so I can hunt with co- workers and friends that are not. I have never heard them call my rights racisist.... Hmmmm....
Cheers
Geoff

I am from northern Sask as well, and I have seen on countless occassions, and witnessed the killing of elk and moose on the side of the road and left intact where they died. I am not a guest in this country. I am a descendant of many generations living in this country. There should not be any segregation of rights, we all live here, we all should benefit from the use of the land and resources in the same ways, regardless of skin colour and ancestory. "White" Canadians (for a lack of a better term) recieve no special treatment or priveleges over any other ethnic immigrant group. They are not considered "guests". We are ALL Canadians and all people need to be treated equally when it comes to the laws of hunting/fishing.

Hunting at night with high powered rifles and spotlights is ridiculous.
 
How is this racism? They do it here in northern sask and our deer, moose, elk and fish are all still good here. Sounds like some guys are more jealous then anything. I'm aboriginal but still buy tags so I can hunt with co- workers and friends that are not. I have never heard them call my rights racisist.... Hmmmm....
Cheers
Geoff

Give me a special right or privilege that indians dont get and watch the racism crys and the sh!t hit the fan. I have noticed that racism only exists one way in this country.
 
thought we won that war and occupied the territory , cut them loose no special treatment, pay your taxes like everybody else. most of the chiefs will sell you a status card for 500$ anyways. Have seen fish dumped on rivers edge because they could not sell it all ,what a waste.
 
Folks I agree with a lot of the points made here, and I am Native. However, there are individuals who are Non-Native as well as Native that abuse hunting and fishing regulations and/or rights. If by abuse of rights you mean taking an animal for monetary gain, then yes I agree with the term abuse! If by abuse you mean the taking of an animal(s) for personal use(ie. to feed ones family), whether in season or out of season then I disagree.
In these parts I have seen poachers have a way more negative impact on the local moose population than Natives. I do not know of any Natives that actually hunt in the area where I hunt, but every year I seem to find a few dead moose left on the side of dirt roads. One this season was actually left right on a road with its legs/shoulders hacked off. So in my experience, I see way more Non-Natives abusing the system.
I have also known a handful of Natives over the years who do abuse our rights. These type of individuals p*ss me off because it looks bad on the rest of us.
My point here is that it's not right to paint everybody with the same brush based on the actions of a few.

Whether or not it is fair that Natives have more privileges is not for you or I to decide. That was whole point of signing treaties years ago. To set standards as to what would be acceptable to both sides.
 
Last i heard it was in thier traditional territories only. Its been going on for years, if you don't like it look away, all your #####ing will not change it. There are many bigger and more worthwhile issues out there.
 
All Im going to say is that Canadian government need to grow some f'in ballz ALREADY. In this day and age cant you buy a nice set of ballz?
 
Last i heard it was in thier traditional territories only. Its been going on for years, if you don't like it look away, all your #####ing will not change it. There are many bigger and more worthwhile issues out there.

That could be a problem in BC, where due to overlapping territory claims, approx 115% of the province is being claimed.
 
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