New AR - Questions on Optics and Best Load

Pr589

Pr589

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Just finished my first AR build and can't wait to try her out. I'd like to try out some accuracy loads and wonder what others have found to be best in a Rainier Ultramatch 16" barrel (1 in 8 twist).

Also, I'm planning on shooting benched at 100 to 300 yards initially, and then shooting 3-gun style when I complete my black-badge. I've kinda stretched my wallet on the build and want to go mid-range on optics. What optics would you guys recommend?

I'm currently leaning in the direction of the Nikon M223 3-12 BDC which will then be teamed with a red-dot like a Burris FF3 or something similar.

As my first build and first AR, I think it is quite pretty and my wife thinks I'm weird because I had to go downstairs last night to say goodnight before putting her to sleep:cool:.

Aeroprecision upper and lower, Rainier Ultramatch 16", Daniel Defense BCG, Griffin M4SD Compensator/flashider, Giessele SSA-E, Midwest Industries 15" Keymod handguard, Hogue and Magpul furniture.
(Magpul CTR with cheekrest came from my M305...waiting on a replacement CTR and the cheek rest will come off).

Very impressed with the light weight and slimness of the Keymod handguard. Can't wait to shoot this thing...:dancingbanana:


 
Nice rig! I'm looking at the same trigger and compensator. I have heard good things about the Nikon scope as well. I have to make a decision about a scope.. But I'm sorta leaning toward the Bushnell AR 1-4x... As for the wife, women won't ever be able to understand the relationship we have with our guns. My girlfriend at least doesn't.
 
Great build and a sweet rifle Pr!!!

I use a VISM 1x4 scope on my Norc M4 clone (14.5" bbl) in a Burris PEPR mount. Works quite well for me, and the scope and mount cost me $250 from an Edmonton dealer (I got such a sweet deal because the scope/mount were a display model).

I've had no problems with the VISM scope, but the dealer I bought it from did say he wouldn't recommend it on a rifle that recoils harder than a .223 Remington....

It works great for me, YMMV.
 
Not too sure if this fits your "mid range" budget but I really like my Vortex PST 1-4. Nice reticle for running and gunning but I find it tough to ring steel at 400 yds, 4 power issue..

I run a 16" 1:7 barrel, 69gr SMK's @2700fps shoot pretty well out of it. Holds around 1/2 MOA at 200 yds

You can PM me for details on the load if you'd like

Edit: fixed barrel specs... :redface:
 
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Pr589 said:
Just finished my first AR build and can't wait to try her out. I'd like to try out some accuracy loads and wonder what others have found to be best in a Rainier Ultramatch 16" barrel (1 in 8 twist).

Also, I'm planning on shooting benched at 100 to 300 yards initially, and then shooting 3-gun style when I complete my black-badge. I've kinda stretched my wallet on the build and want to go mid-range on optics. What optics would you guys recommend?

I'm currently leaning in the direction of the Nikon M223 3-12 BDC which will then be teamed with a red-dot like a Burris FF3 or something similar.

As my first build and first AR, I think it is quite pretty and my wife thinks I'm weird because I had to go downstairs last night to say goodnight before putting her to sleep:cool:.

Aeroprecision upper and lower, Rainier Ultramatch 16", Daniel Defense BCG, Griffin M4SD Compensator/flashider, Giessele SSA-E, Midwest Industries 15" Keymod handguard, Hogue and Magpul furniture.
(Magpul CTR with cheekrest came from my M305...waiting on a replacement CTR and the cheek rest will come off).

Very impressed with the light weight and slimness of the Keymod handguard. Can't wait to shoot this thing...:dancingbanana:


Click to expand...
Now that is a ###Y gun I would be saying goodnight to that every night if I owned it.Question for you where did you get it from and what did it cost? If you don't mind me asking.
 
Very nice.

Try to find some Black Hills 77gr Mk 262 Mod 1 ammo, My 12 inch PWS with 1:8 twist will put them into sub moa groups.
As for handloads, well you'll just have to do some development with your favorite heavier bullet.

For a decent scope on a budget have a look at the Hi-Lux CMR 1-4, Wolverine carries them for $400 and they have a great illuminated reticle with BDC, great turrets with zero-stop, and good clear glass. You can order red or green illumination.
http://www.wolverinesupplies.com/de...th-Illuminated-CMR-Ranging-Glass-Reticle.aspx
 
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Thanks y'all...as our Southern neighbors say. As a new AR guy I have to say that the Lego-like nature of the AR is really interesting and certainly made the build quite easy, although I can't say enough about how I hate steel roll pins used on an easily scratched aluminum chassis.

ante_up said:
Nice rig! I'm looking at the same trigger and compensator... I'm sorta leaning toward the Bushnell AR 1-4x
Click to expand...

Thanks Ante. Can't say anything about the compensator yet but the trigger is truly sweet, light with very tight reset and a predictable, clean break....love it. I like the Bushnell offerings as well...nice controls but I'm not sold on the BDC reticles (on either the Nikons or the Bushnells). Once you start tailoring your loads, it seems to me one might as well use mil hash marks. Also the later allows ranging, although if the BDC reticle "stadia" we're published these might also be usable...maybe.

dusticles said:
Not too sure if this fits your "mid range" budget but I really like my Vortex PST 1-4. Nice reticle for running and gunning but I find it tough to ring steel at 400 yds, 4 power issue..

I run a 16.5" 1:8 barrel, 69gr SMK's @2700fps shoot pretty well out of it. Holds around 1/2 MOA at 200 yds

You can PM me for details on the load if you'd like
Click to expand...

Dust - Vortex is nice but I think you have validated my thought that 4x might be a little light if I'm trying to punch small holes past 200 yards. Good to hear that your 16.5" 1:8 is shooting well. I have high hopes for mine. Will post a range report when I get to shoot it....soon I hope....darn ATT nonsense. PM inbound with Thx.

shredder said:
Great build and a sweet rifle Pr!!!

I use a VISM 1x4 scope on my Norc M4 clone (14.5" bbl) in a Burris PEPR mount...the dealer I bought it from did say he wouldn't recommend it on a rifle that recoils harder than a .223 Remington....
Click to expand...

Thanks shred! I took a look at some of the VISMs and do like the PEPR mount. One thought, and call this my over thinking, is that while I'm buying an optic for the AR, I'm thinking that I want the flexibility to move it to my heavier calibre rifles at a later date. If I like 3 gun, my AR may end up only with a red dot, holo sight or a 1-4.

How do you find the cheek weld with the PEPR? Was kinda shocked at the cost of some of the high, cantilever mounts out there.

Savage78 said:
Now that is a ###Y gun I would be saying goodnight to that every night if I owned it.Question for you where did you get it from and what did it cost? If you don't mind me asking.
Click to expand...

Savage - Thanks...still fondling mornings and evenings. Frustrated until we consummate the relationship.
The rifle is my first AR and first ground-up build. Parts came from a variety of dealers (e.g. Arms East for Giessele trigger, IRunguns for lower, CTCS for barrel and compensator) plus some parts that came from the EE.

The cost....well I would have been better off buying a DD, and swapping out the parts that I wanted to upgrade (match barrel, trigger and keymod handguard). I started collecting bits before AR prices started to plummet and had too much to change track. I am afraid to total my receipts but I think I am in for at least $2k including taxes and shipping. I tell my wife that its the cost of really getting to know the rifle...i.e. By building from the ground-up. Hah! At least she is not a CGN'r although if she were...hmmmm

 
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Since you mention 3Gun or the games as your destination, I suggest a 1-6 as being the better choice as it will give you a broader field of view. I have a Leupold HAMR 4 x and the DeltaPoint combo which I find excellent but it may blow the budget. Most gamers I know use a 1-4 or a 1-6. For ranges in some parts of the country the 1-4 is adequate as you don't see many shots over 200. Bear in mind that if you go the two optic route, it puts you in the Open class. That doesn't matter much to me as I shoot purely for the joy of it and will never be a front runner.
 
Keep in mind that military shooters do fine back to 500m with a 3.4 power scope and really want less magnification inside 25m.
The biggest advantage to higher power optics is that you can more easily see your swirl and the mirage.

I have been running a 20" ultra match since May and it is a solid moa barrel (10 rnd groups) with the same load (69gr SMKs @ 2875) I fed my Stag before the barrel swap. I am pretty sure I can shrink it down when I find some 77gr SMKs and do some load development.
 
dusticles said:
Not too sure if this fits your "mid range" budget but I really like my Vortex PST 1-4. Nice reticle for running and gunning but I find it tough to ring steel at 400 yds, 4 power issue..

I run a 16.5" 1:8 barrel, 69gr SMK's @2700fps shoot pretty well out of it. Holds around 1/2 MOA at 200 yds

You can PM me for details on the load if you'd like
Click to expand...

holy! what rifle is that? Thats bolt action accuracy...
 
ive been thinking of running just one optic as well, i kinda like the elcan specter 3x
not to much mag for in close shots, and the rapid aiming reticle helps with that, and great glass for longer shots.
of course the specter dr would be my number one choice, but its 2k, I already have one mounted on my tavor and it is phenomenal. Maybe ill get another one for my ar... still on the fence with that.
 
mikethebike said:
ive been thinking of running just one optic as well, i kinda like the elcan specter 3x
not to much mag for in close shots, and the rapid aiming reticle helps with that, and great glass for longer shots.
of course the specter dr would be my number one choice, but its 2k, I already have one mounted on my tavor and it is phenomenal. Maybe ill get another one for my ar... still on the fence with that.
Click to expand...

One optic is ideal but too rich for my blood right now. With my eyesight I need help seeing targets at 100 let alone 200+, so looking for something more than 4x.

What do you guys think of the Sightron S-Tac 1-7x? The only negative I've seen is that the reticle illumination is not really daylight visible.
 
Pr589 said:
One optic is ideal but too rich for my blood right now. With my eyesight I need help seeing targets at 100 let alone 200+, so looking for something more than 4x.

What do you guys think of the Sightron S-Tac 1-7x? The only negative I've seen is that the reticle illumination is not really daylight visible.
Click to expand...

I thought you were on a budget or I would have suggested that optic. Sightron makes great scopes with very clear glass. I would take a Sightron over a Leupold any day. My Sightron 6-24x50 is almost as clear as my Nightforce. Why would you need daylight illumination? you can see the reticle fine, It's for the evening when the light starts to go.
 
Pr589 said:
Thanks y'all...as our Southern neighbors say. As a new AR guy I have to say that the Lego-like nature of the AR is really interesting and certainly made the build quite easy, although I can't say enough about how I hate steel roll pins used on an easily scratched aluminum chassis.



Thanks Ante. Can't say anything about the compensator yet but the trigger is truly sweet, light with very tight reset and a predictable, clean break....love it. I like the Bushnell offerings as well...nice controls but I'm not sold on the BDC reticles (on either the Nikons or the Bushnells). Once you start tailoring your loads, it seems to me one might as well use mil hash marks. Also the later allows ranging, although if the BDC reticle "stadia" we're published these might also be usable...maybe.



Dust - Vortex is nice but I think you have validated my thought that 4x might be a little light if I'm trying to punch small holes past 200 yards. Good to hear that your 16.5" 1:8 is shooting well. I have high hopes for mine. Will post a range report when I get to shoot it....soon I hope....darn ATT nonsense. PM inbound with Thx.



Thanks shred! I took a look at some of the VISMs and do like the PEPR mount. One thought, and call this my over thinking, is that while I'm buying an optic for the AR, I'm thinking that I want the flexibility to move it to my heavier calibre rifles at a later date. If I like 3 gun, my AR may end up only with a red dot, holo sight or a 1-4.

How do you find the cheek weld with the PEPR? Was kinda shocked at the cost of some of the high, cantilever mounts out there.



Savage - Thanks...still fondling mornings and evenings. Frustrated until we consummate the relationship.
The rifle is my first AR and first ground-up build. Parts came from a variety of dealers (e.g. Arms East for Giessele trigger, IRunguns for lower, CTCS for barrel and compensator) plus some parts that came from the EE.

The cost....well I would have been better off buying a DD, and swapping out the parts that I wanted to upgrade (match barrel, trigger and keymod handguard). I started collecting bits before AR prices started to plummet and had too much to change track. I am afraid to total my receipts but I think I am in for at least $2k including taxes and shipping. I tell my wife that its the cost of really getting to know the rifle...i.e. By building from the ground-up. Hah! At least she is not a CGN'r although if she were...hmmmm
Click to expand...

Thats not to bad if you are running 2k because that is what I am budgeting for my AR-15 I would love to build an AR-10 from the ground up but my budget would be blown.
 
cr5 said:
I thought you were on a budget or I would have suggested that optic. Sightron makes great scopes with very clear glass. I would take a Sightron over a Leupold any day. My Sightron 6-24x50 is almost as clear as my Nightforce. Why would you need daylight illumination? you can see the reticle fine, It's for the evening when the light starts to go.
Click to expand...

Definitely on a budget (for now...) so just window shopping. Thought the 1-7 range was amazing for a ~$800 scope. I'd love to have one.

From what I've read, many like the illumination for faster target acquisition during the daytime. Many of the new AR scopes have illuminated reticles for this apparent reason. Have also heard that the next generation of the S-TACs will increase the brightness of the reticle.

I've thought about an AR10 but given a 308 rifle I think I'd like to be able to take it off the range for hunting.
 
I've got an AR-10 on the way and have been thinking about the S-Tac 2.5-17.5x56 for it.

You should definitely give the 1-7 a try. I was going to get one for my non restricted ACR but ended up saving some cash and going with the Leupold Mark AR 3-9x40 with mildot reticle.
 
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