New bear defence question.... 20g slugs?

At close range, or in a charging situation the head shot is the only shot (that and the spine)

But I was responding to SCR saying that 90%A of his shots are head shots, which I assume he meant in a hunting situation, not a defense or control situation. :D
 
I played around with 20 guage slugs in the past, but never on anything alive.

I gotta say tho - they may not be 12 guage's but they're no slouch either, especially at close range.

And black bears are no grizzlie for that matter. You wound a griz, it's first thought is "ok, i'm dying but i'm taking you with me.". A black bear is much much less likely to hang in the fight. If it survives the hit.

I have to say - for BLACK bears at CLOSE range a 20 guage 3 inch slug would be a useable bear defense tool - not an ideal choice perhaps but under 20 yards, yeah i think it'll stop 'em if you get a reasonably decent hit in. Lets keep in mind - there are numerous stories of people driving them off with a good stout stick.

At the muzzle even cheap 3 inch shells have about 1800 ftlbs of energy. That can't be doing the bear any good, that's for sure.
 
I always hack on the new guys... you all know that :roll:
They are the most fun when they are shiny... especially when you can call them out so easily :lol:
It is just my way to test a fella's mettle... 6 posts in and the guy gives out questionable advice on bear defence... he has no profile and we know what that means :wink: ... for all we know he could be a pimple faced boy scout on his momma's puter :p
I know this much for sure he bandies about kill numbers and brags about headshots... and those type of guys have never lasted long on here :idea:
I thought I was going easy on him :? ... but he certainly got defensive in a hurry and that speaks loudly to me :idea: ... wonder what he will do when he gets Captain Deadly'd :wink: :lol:
Sorry if I wounded your sensibilities SCR... no harm no foul... nothing is personal on the interweb 8)
 
I wouldn't wanna put a slug down the bore of a tight choked shotgun.

It's been my experience that if you are close enough, buckshot works well.
The key term is "close enough".

I have been very close to blacks in situations that did not warrant me shooting them, and close enough where it did.
Every bear is different and just because he is in thhe same berry patch
doesn't mean he (or she) is a threat.

However, I have also been charged, false charged, and surprised by some over the years with varrying results.

A load of no 4's will make a fatal mess a bears head instantly if he is in fact that "that close"......
Cat
 
I hear what your saying Cat... anything will kill at Point Blank. I agree wholly with that statement and I also would not hesitate to use a 20g or anything else if thats what I had.
Bear defense is an esoteric debate and any blanket statement regarding how much is enough to kill a bear is a dubious proclamation :idea:
My thinking on effective bear defense is centered around the aggressive behaviour inside my "comfort zone" theory.
If a bear shows any threatening behaviour and is inside of 30 yards the safety comes off... any closer and I will shoot it.
I think it is foolish to let an aggressive bear any closer and at 20 yards a bear coming on at any speed is not easy to hit or stop. If an adult bear runs at you from 20 yards you will likely only get one shot... that is guaranteed :!: And in my experience with slugs on big game a 12 gauge 1 1/8 ounce slug or bigger is enough to stop or slow it enough to give you a second shot. :)
I consider a 20 gauge borderline in these circumstances. JBRO :wink:
 
Gatehouse said:
SCR said:
[

My only and best suggestion to you is that you get off the computer and spend a little more time in the bush and at the range. YOUR above statement "..says it all" to me.

Good luck
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SCR

You are pretty new here, that's why I asked everyone to cut you some slack.

BR included! :wink:

But that last statement you made is prety humourous.

I hunted with BR in ONT this year.

He has his own private 500 yard range on his property, about 100 yards form his house. :D

And I'd say he spends at least 1/3 of a year afield. :D (Maybe more, as he does predator control and other control work, too)

Although I've torn into a new guy before, we really shoudln't chase off new guys, boys and girls. :wink:
:D
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I may be new to THIS forum, however I assure you that I am not new to hunting or using firearms. And if BR has himself a 500 yrd range, perhaps he should spend a little more time on it to hone his skills a wee bit more. It appears to me that BR's last statement is a direct response that most hunters have when they hear someone shoots very well. It's usually brought upon by disbelief.

I have good friend that, over the years, consistantly shot deer with his .17 Rem. Although I don't recommend that anyone go out and shoot deer this season with a .17 BUT, this person is a competetor in the various rifle shoots in Ontario and other Provinces. He holds a variety of awards for his marskmanship. I can't help but wonder, if this individual posted in this forum that he shoots very well and most of his kills are head shots, that he would be subjected to offhand comments?

Personally, I don't require a cannon to go hunting. But that's just my opinion based on my personal experiences and skill level.

As the other poster said, head shots "rule", if you have the skill and experience. However, if I don't have a clean head shot, then it's in the vitals. Period.

Cheers
 
Gather 'round here boys. This is shaping up to be our version of the Perfect Storm. Bear defense, head shots, .17 Remington on deer, Captain Deadly, grizzled CGN veteran against upstart newbie, Gatehouse telling BIGREDD to go easy on the new guy. Pull up a chair 'cause it doesn't get any better than this. :lol:

Now just a little hint SCR, many of us have shot with BIGREDD and after hitting targets his second best talent is hitting nerves on guys like you. As for troublesome bears, he's been there and done that several times. Now, based on your somewhat odd post about your encounter with the OPP you're in Ontario maybe even close enough to BIGREDD to go over show him a thing or two. Or are you too busy in your law class? :roll:

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/viewtopic.php?t=96580
 
Can you guys imagine what would happen if we all lived in Africa (or pretended to) and had to discuss defence from more than just one ferociously dangerous animal? What would the ideal leopard/rhino/cape buffalo/elephant/lion gun be? Could we also use that for bear?!?!? What if we were attacked by all of those blood hungry creatures at the same time! :D :D :D

I am of course joking around, but I find it amusing that we spend so much time arguing over defence from an animal for the most part keeps to himself. I know, I have been a little to close for comfort to a inquisitive bear a few times, but they are rare occurences. In Africa on the other hand, these debates would have much more meaning I would think.
 
Since we are talking about bears here is what happened the other night.

A few nights ago in Swan Hills AB a guy herd some rustling in his back yard. He goes out to see what is going on and realized it was a bear. So he starts throwing stuff at it, some fire wood a frying pan ect. The bear turns and chases him up the stairs on his deck and the guy runs into the house and phoned the cops. The cop that got the call used to be a fish cop so he goes over there and looks around. The cop phones the real fish cop and he showes up too. They both start looking around for about 20 minutes when they get a second call. Break and enter in progress. A lady phoned 911 and someone busted out a window on her house and is trying to get in. Both go over to the house to catch the burgler in action. By the time they get there the burgler is gone but with a little detective work they find foot prints. Of course guess who the burgler is? Mr Grizzly Bear. My friend lives a few houses down from all the action. We figured that with hunting season on an all the dead critters haging in peoples garages (mabey a few moose heads in back yards) the grizz came to check it out.


So the question is What is best for home/bear defence? I am going to say fire wood and frying pans, probably birch split in half and a cast iron pan with a good handle. For back up I would use 12 gauge and buck shot. Not slugs as they could travel through my wall and into the house next to me. :mrgreen:
 
Claybuster said:
Gather 'round here boys. This is shaping up to be our version of the Perfect Storm. Bear defense, head shots, .17 Remington on deer, Captain Deadly, grizzled CGN veteran against upstart newbie, Gatehouse telling BIGREDD to go easy on the new guy. Pull up a chair 'cause it doesn't get any better than this. :lol:

Now just a little hint SCR, many of us have shot with BIGREDD and after hitting targets his second best talent is hitting nerves on guys like you. As for troublesome bears, he's been there and done that several times. Now, based on your somewhat odd post about your encounter with the OPP you're in Ontario maybe even close enough to BIGREDD to go over show him a thing or two. Or are you too busy in your law class? :roll:

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/viewtopic.php?t=96580
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Please tell me you're kidding. Are you and LittleRedRidinghood of the mentality that forum members are ranked according to the number of posts made?? Or that the date of becoming a member determines your experience or if you're "grizzled" or not?? Please tell me that this is not the case.

Look, BigMouth, if you have a "special relationship" with BigRed, that's ok. However I choose not to engage in those types of relationships, but I don't look down at those that do. So forgive me if I don't support your cause.

Oh and as for showing BR a thing or two at the range, no sweat. It would be my pleasure. But I suspect when when BR and I are finished at his "500 yard range", he'll be tearing down his targets and planting corn in that field.

Cheers
 
Oh Kay.

A little too much testosterone around here guys. Pls keep it civil. My spidey sense tells me this thread is about two posts away from getting out of hand :)

SCR, maybe you and redd SHOULD hook up, shoot the #### and some paper. My personal experience is that some of the guys that fight like dogs here quickly become thick as theives when they spend a little time together in the real world.

Personally - i have a problem with headshots as a 'first choice' for hunting. I don't care how good your skills are, a deer can twitch at the last moment, a bullet can catch the bone funny - too many things can happen. Better to go for a more certain target i think, one that reduces the chances of wounding. There just ain't no guarantee with ANY shot, no matter HOW good you are, so i personally believe that it's our responsibility as hunters to go for the shot MOST likely to give a clean, swift kill. And that's not a headshot it most cases.

In any case. Lets stay away from the usual insults and posturing guys. "spend more time in the real world" and "i've killed 50 animals while you've only killed 48" and so on are about the same as 'my dad's bigger than your dad'.

The topic was 'will a 20 guage with slugs kill black bears in a defensive situation'. :wink: I doubt many of us have tried to kill a hostile attacking black bear with a 20 guage, but i'm sure there's enough experience around here to make a good guess at the answer.
 
Colin said:
well I have seen footage of a guy taking out an elephant with an FN.... 8)
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There is a big difference between shooting - I won't say hunting - an animial and STOPPING a large and dangerious prediator about to make mince meat of you! :shock:

In that case I want my 505 Gibbs in my hands at that time!! :roll:
 
Well I agree he was not hunting it, I believe he was involved in a cull, I think he dumped a mag into the poor beast.
 
SCR said:
Look, BigMouth, if you have a "special relationship" with BigRed, that's ok. However I choose not to engage in those types of relationships, but I don't look down at those that do.
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Yes, it's quite evident any relationship built on mutual respect, civility and maturity is a goal you have yet to achieve. You didn't need 12 posts to prove that. We got it in one.
 
SCR said:
Claybuster said:
Gather 'round here boys. This is shaping up to be our version of the Perfect Storm. Bear defense, head shots, .17 Remington on deer, Captain Deadly, grizzled CGN veteran against upstart newbie, Gatehouse telling BIGREDD to go easy on the new guy. Pull up a chair 'cause it doesn't get any better than this. :lol:

Now just a little hint SCR, many of us have shot with BIGREDD and after hitting targets his second best talent is hitting nerves on guys like you. As for troublesome bears, he's been there and done that several times. Now, based on your somewhat odd post about your encounter with the OPP you're in Ontario maybe even close enough to BIGREDD to go over show him a thing or two. Or are you too busy in your law class? :roll:

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/viewtopic.php?t=96580
Click to expand...

Please tell me you're kidding. Are you and LittleRedRidinghood of the mentality that forum members are ranked according to the number of posts made?? Or that the date of becoming a member determines your experience or if you're "grizzled" or not?? Please tell me that this is not the case.

Look, BigMouth, if you have a "special relationship" with BigRed, that's ok. However I choose not to engage in those types of relationships, but I don't look down at those that do. So forgive me if I don't support your cause.

Oh and as for showing BR a thing or two at the range, no sweat. It would be my pleasure. But I suspect when when BR and I are finished at his "500 yard range", he'll be tearing down his targets and planting corn in that field.

Cheers
Click to expand...

*SIGH*
:roll:

You're too easy. :roll: :D
 
Well can I call em or what.... I tell you boys It almost a phsycic ablility the way I can root them out... :lol:

Can you feel it coming... well can you :shock: :lol:

Look up in the sky .... its a bird .... its a plane ... its... not again :roll:

SCR.JPG
 
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