New custom build Ron Smith Gain twist - break in questons

J

janssen

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Hi all,

Been lurking for a while but now I have a question for all you guru's.

Just got my new build in - first custom rifle for me :cool:

Its a 1903A3 Remington Action with a Ron Smith Gain Twist SS Barrel. My gun smith had me break in barrel shooting 1 shot, clean with JB/windex, repeat - for about 20 shots.

have put a total of about 40 rounds down the pipe, cheap walmart ammo....

Now he is on holidays for the next month and I am not getting the results I was expecting - at a 100 yards from a benchrest I am grouping about 3 inches :(

I know the ammo is cheap but that is pretty nasty grouping.

Do I just need to break in longer? Or is wally world federal X ammo really that bad?

I intend on reloading and am set up to start doing that but wanted to break the rifle in first so that my reloading results are repeatable. (reloading questions to follow)

Thanks,
John
 
Break in is fine however some here would just say shoot it. Make sure all bolts are torqued and that all base and scope mount screw are secure. If you're not reloading yet but some federal match ammo. If it doesn't group then something is up with your rig. However personally i wouldn't waste any more time with factory loaded ammunition. There is so much data that you lost during your break in, that you could have done with your reloads.
 
308BAR said:
Break in is fine however some here would just say shoot it. Make sure all bolts are torqued and that all base and scope mount screw are secure. If you're not reloading yet but some federal match ammo. If it doesn't group then something is up with your rig. However personally i wouldn't waste any more time with factory loaded ammunition. There is so much data that you lost during your break in, that you could have done with your reloads.
Click to expand...

Will pick up a box - then I gotta learn how to reload :)

THX for the quick reply
 
JB and Windex ? That's a new one for me. LOL. I usually use a powder solvent and a proper copper solvent (Hoppes #9 and Sweets to be more specific)

Factory ammo (depending on what it is) should generally shoot better than 3" at 100

Ron does not lap his barrels so a proper break in (afaic) is a good thing to smooth tooling marks out.
 
CyaN1de said:
JB and Windex ? That's a new one for me. LOL. I usually use a powder solvent and a proper copper solvent (Hoppes #9 and Sweets to be more specific)

Factory ammo (depending on what it is) should generally shoot better than 3" at 100

Ron does not lap his barrels so a proper break in (afaic) is a good thing to smooth tooling marks out.
Click to expand...

f:P:

Ron's barrels do not need "break-in". He single point cuts both the grooves and the bore, which means the tooling marks already all go in the same direction. This idea of barrel break in is absolutely ridiculous, and is utterly pointless (and possible detrimental) when done to high quality barrels. Who was your gunsmith?
 
J-B non embedding bore compound not JB Weld. :)
Idea is that the cleaner cleans it of course - the windex (ammonia) is to remove all oils from the bore before your next shot - clean metal on metal. Each shot breaks in the next couple of inches of barrel, bullet travels without moving any copper, carbon etc down the barrel. Makes sense to me anyways, Gunsmith is Steve Holborne out in warren and he did a beautiful job, any issues with the gun would probably be attributed to the operator.
 
Blastattack said:
f:P:

Ron's barrels do not need "break-in". He single point cuts both the grooves and the bore, which means the tooling marks already all go in the same direction. This idea of barrel break in is absolutely ridiculous, and is utterly pointless (and possible detrimental) when done to high quality barrels. Who was your gunsmith?
Click to expand...

Well when I picked up my rifle from Mr. Smith and asked about break in he recommended to me hoppe's 9 and bore paste between shots for the first 10. And I figured I just paid the man a good amount of cash to build the barrel he might have the right idea, he did also say some people just shoot it and it works fine.
 
Try some different ammo next range trip, also check the screws and scope mounts. If that doesn't help then looking in to your scope and bedding assuming the shooter is up to par.

What caliber is your new barrel chambered in?
 
.300 win mag, Range trip is stepping out the back door - out to 350 with an easy 600 when I get the dozer running again.

Going to pull the scope and check tonight.

thx JJ
 
Blastattack said:
f:P:

Ron's barrels do not need "break-in". He single point cuts both the grooves and the bore, which means the tooling marks already all go in the same direction. This idea of barrel break in is absolutely ridiculous, and is utterly pointless (and possible detrimental) when done to high quality barrels. Who was your gunsmith?
Click to expand...

The medals and trophies on my walls say otherwise.

I have currently 4 custom barrels on 4 different rifles and everyone of them went through a break in and everyone of them shoots quite well. Even the worn out take off barrels on the shelf went through the same process (one of those being a Ron Smith barrel).

Shot my best group at 300m with the Smith barrel as a matter of fact.
 
How do you single point cut the bore on a rifle barrel?

Even though the grooves are cut single point doesn't mean there are no burrs at the edges of those cuts. Yes, they may be really, really small burrs, but they're burrs none the less. If the barrel maker or gunsmith don't lap, that means those burrs are still there when it comes time to shoot. Sharp edges and burrs peel copper = buildup = eventual accuracy degradation = grouchy shooter.
 
As suggested, check all torque settings and scope mounts, try some match grade ammo until you start reloading. Sounds like ammo issue to me
 
FWIW, breaking in a barrel is to smooth out the microscopic metal fibres that are still standing up from the tooling process. each shot either lays down the small steel spikes or if the spikes are strong enough they peal off a little bit of copper from the bullet jacket, which if you don't clean off with a copper solvent the copper 'blob" gets larger with each passing bullet, and begins to deform the subsequent bullets enough to affect accuracy.

a lot of high quality barrels require no break in period as they leave the factory finished with a completely smooth bore. I haven't seen the inside of an unfired Ron Smith barrel.

Having said that your large groups are likely due to the ammo.
 
GoblinXIV said:
Well when I picked up my rifle from Mr. Smith and asked about break in he recommended to me hoppe's 9 and bore paste between shots for the first 10. And I figured I just paid the man a good amount of cash to build the barrel he might have the right idea, he did also say some people just shoot it and it works fine.
Click to expand...

Hmm... fair enough, I take it back. Ron's word is good, and I won't contradict him. However, I do not believe in barrel break in and will never practice it on any of my rifles. Personal opinion, and I cannot be swayed.
 
358Rooster said:
How do you single point cut the bore on a rifle barrel?
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Easy, shave .0002" off the bore by running the tool over the entire circumference of the bore before you start cutting the grooves. It takes out all the reamer marks and all the tooling marks run in the same direction, breech to muzzle.
 
Okay, I get it. Kinda like broaching. Wonder what that tool looks like tho. Easy? I doubt it. In the hands of skilled craftsmen, it may be 'run of the mill' but not easy. At least to hold tight tolerances. Does he actually do this or are you just speculating? I wonder how many others do this? Usually, it's just drill, ream, button or cut, then lap (if they lap) - correct?
 
John,

Sorry to participate in a side track there (still wanna know, though:redface:). As others have said, once you're sure everything is secure, spend the dosh on a box of match ammo if results still don't improve. Then, at least, you should be able to rule out what you're feeding it. My .02. As a handloader, I hate doing this but there have been a few times where I just can't figure out WTH is going on and on occasion, this works. If the good factory stuff shoots like poop, I'd say you have other issues.

Inspirational, huh? Jeez I ramble........:HR:

Rooster
 
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