New daily driver from Shot Show

[CrazyHands13]

I've said it many times on there. The problem in Canada is the court system. We catch bad guys all the time, the courts won't keep them in jail.

These vehicles aren't ok to leave it on the army base and borrow when needed. Usually when these are needed, it's a right now situation. We all know how quick bureaucracy works. Then I'm assuming these aren't like a honda civic and are easy to drive. You need to be familiar with them, etc. They are a necessary evil. No not every detachment needs one. Not every municipality needs one. I'm pretty sure they're less common than some people even think they are. And are used more than people realize, at least for us. The times I know of, I never saw any articles in the news about it.

We can have all the bait vehicles etc that we want. The problem is this country is positively embarrassing in how we treat criminals. I could go catch the same guy every month, the courts just give them the revolving door treatment.

Slashing the budgets by 90%? You're in dream land. The RCMP is already the cheapest game in town, and the most understaffed, covering the largest areas. BUT if we could start talking, get someone to go into the RCMP budgets and start trimming the fat, there would be a significant amount of change that could be done, streamlining, just plain doing things smarter. It wouldn't cost less, but we surely could do things better. Bring in the two Bobs and start asking everyone "so what is it that you do here?" and cutting. My favourite example is why do we have police officers on the musical ride. Hire people who like horsies, pay the less, dress them up in pretty red serge and leave them in Ottawa for 20 years. Instead of moving police officers there for 2-4 years, paying them a police officer salary, spending 60,000$ for their move in and out of there.
Hire civilian members to do non policing jobs, like media relations, etc etc. This outfit has a supervisor or NCO for every 2 constables. That's insane.
Take the fly in spots and put them on mine schedules. Make larger hub detachments so you don't have 5 guys sitting in Kyle, Saskatchewan picking their noses while other detachments are run off their feet. Paying 10000$ a year to band aid fix houses that could be permanently solved with a 15000$ fix. There are literally thousands of things we could do that would both save money and give better service, but there's no will to make it happen. I could come up with ideas all day. Money is being wasted because it's thrown at the same problems over and over and over again, in an organization that historically does not like change or innovation.

But again, it rolls down to the public needs to call for a complete reform on the RCMP organizational issues, the court and jail system. It's positively amazing what taking 5-10 problems out of a community or reserve can do to stop crime, what waste being tethered to the treasury board is, etc.

Armoured vehicles are the last thing that should be raising questions with things in the policing and *ahem*, "Justice", systems in this country.

Excellent points. Thank you for the fair criticisms instead of the surprising rhetoric I've been reading on this forum as of late.

 

[223762]

BC has one of these. Ive heard its used fairly often for busts. I hope they auction it off to the public when its replaced by a new military hand me down.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/armoured-vehicles-adopted-by-b-c-rcmp-1.871738

 

[Kanaskichuck]

BC has one of these. Ive heard its used fairly often for busts. I hope they auction it off to the public when its replaced by a new military hand me down.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/armoured-vehicles-adopted-by-b-c-rcmp-1.871738

They should upgrade. Not safe for anyone riding in that Sniping Friendly Scoped Rifle death trap.

 

[Epoxy7]

All he had to do is ask me to dumb it down for him....

Too many big words?

ffs

That’s funny. It reminds me of a fellow University student who would write the way you do. The professor used his writing as an example of what not to do. I will never forget this. We were instructed not to try and use 20 dollar words for 10 cent ideas. The goal was clear and concise articulation not using a thesaurus to fake intelligence. Basically you’re trying to distract from a poorly supported position with overly flowery language to fake intellectual superiority. But hey knock yourself out. Your delusions of grandeur aren’t fooling anyone else.

Oh and no I don’t want to be involved in helping transfer your 200 million dollar royal treasure out of your country. Thanks though for the opportunity!

 

[Cappy]

SWAT Team Use in Canada Is Up 2,100% Since 1980, Researchers Say



https://thegunblog.ca/2018/01/27/swat-team-use-canada-2100-since-1980-researchers-say/

Very poorly written article with no support or explanation of the stats at all. So if an ERT member in the course of their duties witnesses or is close by a motor vehicle accident should they drive on by as those types of calls are clearly not an appropriate use of a "SWAT Team" as the article suggests?

How dare they be involved in day to day policing!!! The article equates every stat as the deployment of an entire team. Why wouldn't we want a highly trained individual responding to mental health related calls. I for one would really hate to see well trained, level headed experienced and mature police officers equipped with less lethal options dealing with people in crisis. Better leave those calls to the new kids and lock the big bad boys back in cages and only break glass when needed.

 

[Epoxy7]

130 posts of the same sh!t every time someone posts another armoured vehicle. When you have several of your coworkers shot and killed and now you have to go stop the threat , I'll wait for you morons to roll up in your Prius and see how that takes fire. That never happens right. Epic CGN

Anytime any police matter comes up! I think we need a blue thunder program! A couple of Apache helicopters in police colours. If nothing else it would get them really Going!

Hey Op any Russian hind helicopters, surplus Apache or black hawk helicopters at shot show?

 

[Epoxy7]

They should upgrade. Not safe for anyone riding in that Sniping Friendly Scoped Rifle death trap.

Also mechanical nightmare and if the driver doesn’t know what they are doing they can break down even faster. That being said I have been there when that one was deployed on a couple of occasions. The new specifically designed armor car looking ones are better.

For you anti authority types one incident with the above vehicle involved a barricaded male who had just fired three rounds from a pistol at a neigbour’s fleeing truck. Yes all three were hits. Fortunately the driver wasn’t injured. The suspect had been damaging the truck owners property and an ongoing neighbor dispute started. Well suspect refused to come out of his residence, was suicidal and armed. The only cover on that multi acre property was the armoured vehicle. It ended with him eventually surrendering. No one injured. Excellent use of that vehicle by ert. Great job by those guys. On a side note the guy wasn’t charged with illegal possession or unsafe storage. Although his PAL was revoked along with other charges being forwarded.

By the way I was first on scene and in charge of the attending GD members. Switched on team. But this was exactly the type of situation where you ask for ERT. Exactly the type of situation where these type of vehicles are required. Unfortunately that was far from my only experience with armed barricaded persons. It just happened that the above vehicle was used during that incident.

I would suggest rather than looking st how many times ERT was deployed, perhaps a better graph would be how many incidents have been successfully resolved. I’ve been to more than my fair share of those types of calls and had to request ERT. So far every one of those situations has worked out with zero deaths or injuries. ERT does a good job and have likely saved more lives than most people realize.

Oh and none of the incidents I attended made the papers. No doubt that was due to nothing going wrong!

 

[Red_Liner740]

Which one is it? "Why do you have guns or want them for protection? Canada is such a safe country" or "we need these APCs for officer safety"

If officer safety requires APCs, then I guess Canada isn't as safe as they'd like you to believe? Or are they just hypocrites?

 

[NO AKs...]

That’s funny. It reminds me of a fellow University student who would write the way you do. The professor used his writing as an example of what not to do. I will never forget this. We were instructed not to try and use 20 dollar words for 10 cent ideas. The goal was clear and concise articulation not using a thesaurus to fake intelligence. Basically you’re trying to distract from a poorly supported position with overly flowery language to fake intellectual superiority. But hey knock yourself out. Your delusions of grandeur aren’t fooling anyone else.

Oh and no I don’t want to be involved in helping transfer your 200 million dollar royal treasure out of your country. Thanks though for the opportunity!

\


lol

Speaking of a fake intellectual superiority complex....

Refute my points then professor instead of revealing your repressed racism by constantly denigrating African nationals.

I'll wait.

 

[NO AKs...]

Which one is it? "Why do you have guns or want them for protection? Canada is such a safe country" or "we need these APCs for officer safety"

If officer safety requires APCs, then I guess Canada isn't as safe as they'd like you to believe? Or are they just hypocrites?

Exactly this.^^^

You cut to the core of the issue. The scam is to keep Canadians scared and dependant upon big daddy gubmint for protection. No different than the classic mob protection racket.

"Nice society you got there - it'd be a shame if someone messed it up."

 

[NO AKs...]

Also mechanical nightmare and if the driver doesn’t know what they are doing they can break down even faster. That being said I have been there when that one was deployed on a couple of occasions. The new specifically designed armor car looking ones are better.

For you anti authority types one incident with the above vehicle involved a barricaded male who had just fired three rounds from a pistol at a neigbour’s fleeing truck. Yes all three were hits. Fortunately the driver wasn’t injured. The suspect had been damaging the truck owners property and an ongoing neighbor dispute started. Well suspect refused to come out of his residence, was suicidal and armed. The only cover on that multi acre property was the armoured vehicle. It ended with him eventually surrendering. No one injured. Excellent use of that vehicle by ert. Great job by those guys. On a side note the guy wasn’t charged with illegal possession or unsafe storage. Although his PAL was revoked along with other charges being forwarded.

By the way I was first on scene and in charge of the attending GD members. Switched on team. But this was exactly the type of situation where you ask for ERT. Exactly the type of situation where these type of vehicles are required. Unfortunately that was far from my only experience with armed barricaded persons. It just happened that the above vehicle was used during that incident.

I would suggest rather than looking st how many times ERT was deployed, perhaps a better graph would be how many incidents have been successfully resolved. I’ve been to more than my fair share of those types of calls and had to request ERT. So far every one of those situations has worked out with zero deaths or injuries. ERT does a good job and have likely saved more lives than most people realize.

Oh and none of the incidents I attended made the papers. No doubt that was due to nothing going wrong!

I thought you were a state enforcer. Of course you have no problem with it. Makes it all that much easier to kick doors in.

I for one would like to know where your loyalties lie. To the hand that feeds you or the people who you aren't even really sworn to "protect".

The RCMP has before and continues to be used as a political tool. How do you square the circle with that sort of blatant political usage and your morality?

When you are given the orders to confiscate a private citizens private property that is part of a God given right to self defence what will you do?

I think its pretty clear given your haughty responses already.

 

[robxcr]

Anytime any police matter comes up! I think we need a blue thunder program! A couple of Apache helicopters in police colours. If nothing else it would get them really Going!

Hey Op any Russian hind helicopters, surplus Apache or black hawk helicopters at shot show?

You are a seriously immature individual that the gonernment allows to carry firearms on a daily basis. Its exactly your type of attitude that frightens the average citizen in this country. You act like you are part of an elite that will opress anyone that does not agree with you. You are absolutely no better than anyone else in this country. Your job is supposed to be to serve and protect, not to be the mighty enforcer. Thats where it all went wrong. Easy to see who is in your line of work on this discussion. Difference is, some just argue in a way that they dont think they are Gods gift to society. Put me on the ignore list like you said yet?

 

[kodiakjack]

In before the pink.

 

[NO AKs...]

You are a seriously immature individual that the gonernment allows to carry firearms on a daily basis. Its exactly your type of attitude that frightens the average citizen in this country. You act like you are part of an elite that will opress anyone that does not agree with you. You are absolutely no better than anyone else in this country. Your job is supposed to be to serve and protect, not to be the mighty enforcer. Thats where it all went wrong. Easy to see who is in your line of work on this discussion. Difference is, some just argue in a way that they dont think they are Gods gift to society. Put me on the ignore list like you said yet?

Right?

This is the "elite" protecting us every day.

I'll take my chances defending myself thanks.

 

[NO AKs...]

I've said it many times on there. The problem in Canada is the court system. We catch bad guys all the time, the courts won't keep them in jail.

These vehicles aren't ok to leave it on the army base and borrow when needed. Usually when these are needed, it's a right now situation. We all know how quick bureaucracy works. Then I'm assuming these aren't like a honda civic and are easy to drive. You need to be familiar with them, etc. They are a necessary evil. No not every detachment needs one. Not every municipality needs one. I'm pretty sure they're less common than some people even think they are. And are used more than people realize, at least for us. The times I know of, I never saw any articles in the news about it.

We can have all the bait vehicles etc that we want. The problem is this country is positively embarrassing in how we treat criminals. I could go catch the same guy every month, the courts just give them the revolving door treatment.

Slashing the budgets by 90%? You're in dream land. The RCMP is already the cheapest game in town, and the most understaffed, covering the largest areas. BUT if we could start talking, get someone to go into the RCMP budgets and start trimming the fat, there would be a significant amount of change that could be done, streamlining, just plain doing things smarter. It wouldn't cost less, but we surely could do things better. Bring in the two Bobs and start asking everyone "so what is it that you do here?" and cutting. My favourite example is why do we have police officers on the musical ride. Hire people who like horsies, pay the less, dress them up in pretty red serge and leave them in Ottawa for 20 years. Instead of moving police officers there for 2-4 years, paying them a police officer salary, spending 60,000$ for their move in and out of there.
Hire civilian members to do non policing jobs, like media relations, etc etc. This outfit has a supervisor or NCO for every 2 constables. That's insane.
Take the fly in spots and put them on mine schedules. Make larger hub detachments so you don't have 5 guys sitting in Kyle, Saskatchewan picking their noses while other detachments are run off their feet. Paying 10000$ a year to band aid fix houses that could be permanently solved with a 15000$ fix. There are literally thousands of things we could do that would both save money and give better service, but there's no will to make it happen. I could come up with ideas all day. Money is being wasted because it's thrown at the same problems over and over and over again, in an organization that historically does not like change or innovation.

But again, it rolls down to the public needs to call for a complete reform on the RCMP organizational issues, the court and jail system. It's positively amazing what taking 5-10 problems out of a community or reserve can do to stop crime, what waste being tethered to the treasury board is, etc.

Armoured vehicles are the last thing that should be raising questions with things in the policing and *ahem*, "Justice", systems in this country.

This man gets it and is part of the solution.

Do not think by my previous posts that I hate individual members, as stated elsewhere I know a couple members locally and they are the good guys fighting the good fight often against the wishes of their superiors.

Systemic change needs to happen all across the board. Politically most of all. From a sea change in political will all of your points could be addressed.

 

[Epoxy7]

This man gets it and is part of the solution.

Do not think by my previous posts that I hate individual members, as stated elsewhere I know a couple members locally and they are the good guys fighting the good fight often against the wishes of their superiors.

Systemic change needs to happen all across the board. Politically most of all. From a sea change in political will all of your points could be addressed.

Oh yes. Step one when loosing a debate: claim the other party is racist. Step 2 try to divide and conquer. Step three when you really hate a group of people but want to pretend that you don’t claim some of your friends are part of that group. Just waiting for the references to WWII Germany to complete your argument! Come on don’t let us down!

Sorry you think you’re original. You’re actually a cliche stereotype. Please go finish your manifesto...

Added you to ignore., not worth my time!

 

[aldy86]

This is the best answer I've read in this thread. Totally agree with you buddy

So many seem to forget that many, most in my opinion, LEO's are very pro self defence. It's not mutually exclusive here guys - don't make spurious and irrelevant false dichotomies. Yes, police do need these vehicles for certain situations, and yes you should be allowed to own and carry firearms for self protection.

Don't get mad at the police for having the tools they need to do their jobs. Get mad at the self serving politicians who are failing you and disrespecting your rights.

Also, if you're worried about the cost of police across the country having a handful of these vehicles, you REALLY have not been paying attention to what the Liberals have been doing with your tax dollars.

Did you forget they paid out over ten million dollars to a convicted terrorist just because? Did you forget that the PM saw fit to charge taxpayers for his little island holiday, committing no less than four ethics violations in the process? Give your heads a shake!

 

[NO AKs...]

Oh yes. Step one when loosing a debate: claim the other party is racist. Step 2 try to divide and conquer. Step three when you really hate a group of people but want to pretend that you don’t claim some of your friends are part of that group. Just waiting for the references to WWII Germany to complete your argument! Come on don’t let us down!

Sorry you think you’re original. You’re actually a cliche stereotype. Please go finish your manifesto...

Added you to ignore., not worth my time!

Of course it isn't worth your time to out yourself publicly. You have consistently dodged every question I ask you.

Why would that be I wonder? Too close to the mark I would say.

Again. What is your opinion on the current power of the state over the individual via the RCMP? Would you obey an illegal order to confiscate peoples private property?

You are the one moving the goalposts here. No one else. I called out your negative connotations towards Africans and that is somehow considered extremism? lol
Buddy if you are the best and brightest in your detachment I pity the people that have to live around you.

I literally just praised another members post as being part of the solution. You and your bull#### attitude are the problem. Ask around.

Also the word you are searching for is "losing".

Looks like you need a thesaurus.

 

[kodiakjack]

Of course it isn't worth your time to out yourself publicly. You have consistently dodged every question I ask you.

Why would that be I wonder? Too close to the mark I would say.

Again. What is your opinion on the current power of the state over the individual via the RCMP? Would you obey an illegal order to confiscate peoples private property?

You are the one moving the goalposts here. No one else. I called out your negative connotations towards Africans and that is somehow considered extremism? lol
Buddy if you are the best and brightest in your detachment I pity the people that have to live around you.

I literally just praised another members post as being part of the solution. You and your bull#### attitude are the problem. Ask around.

Also the word you are searching for is "losing".

Looks like you need a thesaurus.

Priceless.

 

[robxcr]

Priceless.

Is that what you can come up with?? Seriously?