new glock having some trouble handling

[themachinist]

Hmm that does sound a bit strange. With the slide forward and no magazine in the gun, it should not move downwards at all if pressed. But it should be able to move upwards by a mm if you try.

<---- Try what that guy said too

 

[CoreyMac]

There's no such thing as a glock slide release. It's a slide stop lever. You CAN use it to release the slide, for sure, no one is disputing that. I use it. But there will be wear. As much as you want this not to be true, even Glocks must obey the laws of physics...

Oh brother. Not the slide stop, slide release thing again too.....

 

[King0265]

My S&W M&P 45 was super stiff at first. Just need a few shots down the pipe and now it’s soft. Kind of like my $&@k

 

[Innavedaw]

There's no such thing as a glock slide release. It's a slide stop lever. You CAN use it to release the slide, for sure, no one is disputing that. I use it. But there will be wear. As much as you want this not to be true, even Glocks must obey the laws of physics.]

Of course there is wear...who said there wouldn’t be? It will wear but it won’t “break” the gun. My gen 3 G22 has over 12000 rounds on it. Virtually every spring, lever and pin has been replaced at least once but the frame and slide are still rolling along. Just freshen them up with some cerakote every couple of years...Many hundreds of mag changes in competition using the slide stop...

 

[Winchester-1897]

I think people are missing the reasons here for using each.

If you compete, which I now do, most use the slide release to save time. There is nothing wrong with this.

However, where the slide release will fail you is in a combat situation. “Tap, Rack” is taught because once a lethal confrontation begins, all the physiological responses that your body goes into renders fine motor skills absolutely useless. You can think “this won’t happen to me” but it will. It’s happened to me 3 times in my career. Fine motor skills.... out the window. You can try to operate that slide lock lever.... you won’t even be able to feel it. It’s like you have large pieces of putty on the end of your arms. But, macro motor skills that you have trained into by repetition work. “Tap, rack”. I keep using it in competition because I’m no dreamer.... I’ll never be world class or even provincial at my age. But I don’t want to be confused the next time I REALLY need that slide to operate.

If you want to see or experience something similar, go physically exhaust yourself, and I mean bag ass exhausted, and then try to operate your pistol. Very similar. Sinatra’s “90’s dogma” is still current.

^^^^what he said,what I said^^^^^

 

[FoxAlpha]

^^^^what he said,what I said^^^^^

So I suppose you guys can’t pull a trigger under duress either as both trigger pull and a slide release are fine motor skills.
This is why nobody respected argues this any more.

 

[CreamySmooth]

So I suppose you guys can’t pull a trigger under duress either as both trigger pull and a slide release are fine motor skills.
This is why nobody respected argues this any more.

No.... trigger pulling is not a fine motor skill in a combat situation. This is why holding a Taser in one hand and a pistol in the other is a bad idea and the consensus is to holster one before deploying the other. When you squeeze one hand you tend to squeeze both at the same time because it’s a gross motor skill. It’s hard enough operating the button on a flashlight with the other hand.... you honestly can’t feel anything at that point. Those who haven’t been there.... wont get it.

 

[Bagels]

This has gone so far off my original topic . IT has NOTHING to do with that I asked or talked about.

 

[jimbo14]

This has gone so far off my original topic . IT has NOTHING to do with that I asked or talked about.

Welcome to CGN.

Get someone who knows Glocks to try it out. I don't own one, so I can't help you, but someone familiar with them might be able to see what's going on.

 

[4n2t0]

This has gone so far off my original topic . IT has NOTHING to do with that I asked or talked about.

You've got your answers.

1) It's defective (maybe but not likely).

2) Shoot it to see if it loosens up.

 

[CV32]

This has gone so far off my original topic . IT has NOTHING to do with that I asked or talked about.

Welcome to CGN.

 

[Kratos]

This has gone so far off my original topic . IT has NOTHING to do with that I asked or talked about.

Have you shot it yet?

The slide stop lever is one piece and binds on both sides of the slide on Gen 5’s, take the mag out and try. If that works better then you just have strong mag springs. My Glock 19 is easy to release with the lever, mag or no mag. I had to try it out after reading about your issue.

I have to ask, why have the mag in empty? Manually press (push?) the lever up when pulling the slide back to lock it open.

 

[Winchester-1897]

You've got your answers.

1) It's defective (maybe but not likely).

2) Shoot it to see if it loosens up.

Ya we are talking here so don't interrupt.

 

[Wal-Mart Greeter]

IIRC, there’s a little tab on the magazine follower that pushes the slide stop lever up once the mag is empty. To push the slide stop lever downwards, you are pushing against the mag spring tension and somewhat against the friction of the slide stop recess on the slide (against the main recoil spring).

Remove the slide, then observe how the slide stop lever is interacting with the magazine follower. Try another magazine, maybe an issue with that one mag.

I don’t know how the ambi slide stop levers interact - possibly some complication related to that linkage.

In post #4 he says he's got the mag out and still can't do it without two hands. It's just tight. My Gen 4 was the same, it barely moved until 500 rounds and was really only perfectly usable at 1000 rounds.

Of course there is wear...who said there wouldn’t be? It will wear but it won’t “break” the gun. My gen 3 G22 has over 12000 rounds on it. Virtually every spring, lever and pin has been replaced at least once but the frame and slide are still rolling along. Just freshen them up with some cerakote every couple of years...Many hundreds of mag changes in competition using the slide stop...

Like 4 different people said that lol

Yes, it will "break" the gun. Inserting a magazine gently will throw the slide forwards and the slide won't hold open on the last round. Why the #### would I cerakote a plastic 700$ duty gun, I'll buy a new one lol

 

[themachinist]

Does anyone here actually have a glock that fails to stay locked open at all? Or is this all just speculation and theorizing.
Not trying to antagonize, its a real question

 

[Sinasta]

I think people are missing the reasons here for using each.

If you compete, which I now do, most use the slide release to save time. There is nothing wrong with this.

However, where the slide release will fail you is in a combat situation. “Tap, Rack” is taught because once a lethal confrontation begins, all the physiological responses that your body goes into renders fine motor skills absolutely useless. You can think “this won’t happen to me” but it will. It’s happened to me 3 times in my career. Fine motor skills.... out the window. You can try to operate that slide lock lever.... you won’t even be able to feel it. It’s like you have large pieces of putty on the end of your arms. But, macro motor skills that you have trained into by repetition work. “Tap, rack”. I keep using it in competition because I’m no dreamer.... I’ll never be world class or even provincial at my age. But I don’t want to be confused the next time I REALLY need that slide to operate.

If you want to see or experience something similar, go physically exhaust yourself, and I mean bag ass exhausted, and then try to operate your pistol. Very similar. Sinatra’s “90’s dogma” is still current.

No.... trigger pulling is not a fine motor skill in a combat situation. This is why holding a Taser in one hand and a pistol in the other is a bad idea and the consensus is to holster one before deploying the other. When you squeeze one hand you tend to squeeze both at the same time because it’s a gross motor skill. It’s hard enough operating the button on a flashlight with the other hand.... you honestly can’t feel anything at that point. Those who haven’t been there.... wont get it.

But yet you can deactivate retention system on your holster, press magazine release button, lock your slide to the rear during hard stoppage, press your mic button on your radio and etc, you can do all that but yet cant press the slide stop on a emergency reload...

And yes trigger press is a fine motor skill.

I'm also having trouble how interlimb coordination has anything to do with being able to press a button.

 

[Wal-Mart Greeter]

Does anyone here actually have a glock that fails to stay locked open at all? Or is this all just speculation and theorizing.
Not trying to antagonize, its a real question

Not me personally but the picture I posted is of an example of one off of Glock Talk.

 

[Yycbulletsandbrass]

I think people are missing the reasons here for using each.

If you compete, which I now do, most use the slide release to save time. There is nothing wrong with this.

However, where the slide release will fail you is in a combat situation. “Tap, Rack” is taught because once a lethal confrontation begins, all the physiological responses that your body goes into renders fine motor skills absolutely useless. You can think “this won’t happen to me” but it will. It’s happened to me 3 times in my career. Fine motor skills.... out the window. You can try to operate that slide lock lever.... you won’t even be able to feel it. It’s like you have large pieces of putty on the end of your arms. But, macro motor skills that you have trained into by repetition work. “Tap, rack”. I keep using it in competition because I’m no dreamer.... I’ll never be world class or even provincial at my age. But I don’t want to be confused the next time I REALLY need that slide to operate.

If you want to see or experience something similar, go physically exhaust yourself, and I mean bag ass exhausted, and then try to operate your pistol. Very similar. Sinatra’s “90’s dogma” is still current.

So I suppose you guys can’t pull a trigger under duress either as both trigger pull and a slide release are fine motor skills.
This is why nobody respected argues this any more.

But yet you can deactivate retention system on your holster, press magazine release button, lock your slide to the rear during hard stoppage, press your mic button on your radio and etc, you can do all that but yet cant press the slide stop on a emergency reload...

And yes trigger press is a fine motor skill.

I'm also having trouble how interlimb coordination has anything to do with being able to press a button.

Has anyone else besides CreamySmooth been in a gunfight and had to shoot someone? No? It would be prudent to do your research and listen to those who've done it for real and the research behind extreme stress and the body's response to it.

CreamySmooth, if I may ask, I suspect during your encounters you also did not hear the shots nor did you know how many shots were fired?

You will experience a loss of fine motor skills. A loss of fine motor skills does not mean a complete ABSENCE of fine motor skills, simply a large reduction/loss of fine motor skills. This seems to be where people fall of the tracks. Comprehension is key to understanding. A LOSS of fine motor skills is NOT an ABSENCE of fine motor skills. Now trigger control and the mag release could be argued as fine motor skills as well. The difference between the three controls (trigger, slide lock, mag release) is that one offers you another option for functioning it that uses gross motor skills. Working the slide also mimics your immediate action drill and half mimics your remedial action drill. Why would you try and learn two methods of loading the pistol when one method works 100% of the time and mimics other important drills? Lets not forget that reloading during a gunfight is extremely rare. You're also using the trigger 10/17 times more often than the mag release, which means your muscle memory should be more refined on trigger control than using the mag release or slide lock. I also question the thought that using the slide is "less reliable"??? WTF?!


The interlimb coordination plays a huge role. As humans we tend execute a lot of our motor movements between our arms/hands in a coordinated fashion. Add in the extreme stress and there is a very real possibility that an officer with both his taser and pistol out in play will depress the trigger on both out of habit.

 

[Sinasta]

Has anyone else besides CreamySmooth been in a gunfight and had to shoot someone? No? It would be prudent to do your research and listen to those who've done it for real and the research behind extreme stress and the body's response to it.

CreamySmooth, if I may ask, I suspect during your encounters you also did not hear the shots nor did you know how many shots were fired?

You will experience a loss of fine motor skills. A loss of fine motor skills does not mean a complete ABSENCE of fine motor skills, simply a large reduction/loss of fine motor skills. This seems to be where people fall of the tracks. Comprehension is key to understanding. A LOSS of fine motor skills is NOT an ABSENCE of fine motor skills. Now trigger control and the mag release could be argued as fine motor skills as well. The difference between the three controls (trigger, slide lock, mag release) is that one offers you another option for functioning it that uses gross motor skills. Working the slide also mimics your immediate action drill and half mimics your remedial action drill. Why would you try and learn two methods of loading the pistol when one method works 100% of the time and mimics other important drills? Lets not forget that reloading during a gunfight is extremely rare. You're also using the trigger 10/17 times more often than the mag release, which means your muscle memory should be more refined on trigger control than using the mag release or slide lock. I also question the thought that using the slide is "less reliable"??? WTF?!


The interlimb coordination plays a huge role. As humans we tend execute a lot of our motor movements between our arms/hands in a coordinated fashion. Add in the extreme stress and there is a very real possibility that an officer with both his taser and pistol out in play will depress the trigger on both out of habit.

This still has nothing to do with the conversation. Not saying that it doesnt happen, just that it doesnt apply to use a slide stop in this case. Who here is holding a taser during a reload???

I dont care what you do as long as you can do it. But using a old gross and fine motor skill is institutional dogma.

 

[Yycbulletsandbrass]

This still has nothing to do with the conversation. Not saying that it doesnt happen, just that it doesnt apply to use a slide stop in this case. Who here is holding a taser during a reload???

I dont care what you do as long as you can do it. But using a old gross and fine motor skill is institutional dogma.

Just proving my point. Selling speed fills a class. Selling boring methods that work simply isn't ###y enough for people. Mr. Cowan states that at the 3:37 mark. The discussion that the release is faster. Again, if your life depends on the speed of your reload, your tactics suck. You can't set the scene with so little context and say that a faster reload is absolutely the most important factor. Reloading without the use of concealment or cover is poor tactics. The result is a race between good guy and bad guy as to who can get their gun working and/or make hits first. That fight has nothing to do with methods and everything to do with pure skill, that is who is faster. If the good guy is faster at inserting a single round via the E port than the bad guy is with inserting a magazine and using the slide lock then it is what it is. That doesn't justify single loading as the "best" method or even a "great" method.

MR. Cowan also falls into the trap I posted about above. No one said your fine motor skills are ABSENT. Your fine motor skills are simply reduced/diminished. Comprehension is very important. He also falls for the "your mag release is and trigger are fine motor skills.." argument. Where he is correct, but you don't hav any other choice with those controls. That being said, both the mag release and the trigger operate in one direction only. The slide lock moves in two directions.

To dive a little deeper. We could add any number of other factors in the situation. Broken slide catch, injured hand(s), bloody hands, muddy hands, gloved hands, weaker hand strength, pre existing hand injury, lower skill set/experience, or single handed operation.

Using the slide works on ALL semi autos. It also works for both right and left handed folks. It mimics your IA drill and half of your RA drill. It also mimics your IA for rifles(for the most part). Using the slide is the only way to unload and show clear for the competitors out there. Your slide lock is a one trick pony, and it only works in 1 of it's 2 possible positions.

The mentioning of interlimb coordination was simply to illustrate that gross motor skills and repetitions motions take over from fine motor skills and relatively non repetitious motions.