New ICFRA Target Dimensions vs Present DCRA/US Targets

[CyaN1de]

Got these in an email from Obtunded this evening. Thought those who shoot F-Class and TR would be interested.

 

[Ice-Pick]

V. Cool, thanks

M.

 

[Inspector]

Great Richard, except that next year the ICFRA and DCRA targets will be the same thing, at least for TR. I think the ICFRA F Class targets will only be used by the DCRA for a purely F Class event. They have no plan at the moment to use the small target at the 2009 CFRC for F Class. It will be like it always was F and TR on the same face. Dimensionally, not a huge difference from what was.

Cheers, Glen

 

[Obtunded]

Correct. It is only the center rings that change for F-Class, with a non-white (can I say that?) .5MOA v-bull.

Now can we get the BC clubs to stop shooting ISSF targets and switch to the ICFRA for their 300M matches, since we use DCRA rules anyway? 50mm is a big v-bull.

 

[maple_leaf_eh]

What's ICFRA?

 

[rnbra-shooter]

Great Richard, except that next year the ICFRA and DCRA targets will be the same thing, at least for TR.

Hi Glen, we (Canada/DCRA) will be using our existing targets until we exhaust our supplies, which will likely be 3-4 years anyhow. We will then move to the ICFRA target system. It is up for the PRAs to decide what they will do. BCRA for instance is charging ahead and going with the ICFRA system for next year, using both the ICFRA-TR and the ICFRA-F targets. Other PRAs will likely use the DCRA targets for a while longer before switching to the ICFRA targets.

We have adopted ICFRA rules for DCRA use starting in 2009. Basically, if your rifle was legal under DCRA rules, it will still be legal under ICFRA rules.

The only two significant changes for a TR shooter under ICFRA rules is that there is now no longer a rifle weight limit (it was 6.5kg max under previous DCRA rules), and the trigger weight limit is now min. 0.5kg (it was 1.5kg). A TR shooter might wish to "take advantage" of these changes, or might not. (FWIW NRA-UK has not yet adopted ICFRA rules, so while a Canadian shooter may use a 0.5kg trigger at home, he'll have to shoot it at 1.5kg if he goes to Bisley).

In F-Class, the changes from DCRA to ICFRA rules are even less. In fact, I can't think of any substantive difference between the two.

Dimensionally, not a huge difference from what was.

That's the most important take-away of it all. While the ICFRA targets will be a bit different from the existing DCRA system, they are the "moral equivalent" of them. The ICFRA system tends to be slightly tighter than the DCRA one - some will think that that is a minor plus (I tend to), some will think that that is a minor minus. Either way, it is a minor change.

--
- Daniel
Fredericton, NB

 

[Obtunded]

Actually, the creation of the "F-Resticted" and "F-Farquarhson" is a big thing in my mind for F-Class. I was just given a copy of the new definition today; The F-Class technical rules stipulate that the Farky class will be defined in due course...

Anyway, here are the current distinctions:

F2.2. An ‘F’ Class Open rifle may be of any calibre up to and including 8mm and the overall weight must not exceed 10kg including all attachments (such as, but not limited to, its sights and bipod, if any). NB: An ‘attachment’ is defined as including any external object (other than the competitor, his sling (if any) and his apparel) which recoils (or partially recoils) with the rifle, or which is clamped, magnetically or viscously held, or in any other way joined to the rifle for each shot, or which even slightly rises with the rifle when vertically lifting the latter from its rest(s).


F2.3. An ‘F’ Class Restricted rifle is limited to .223 Remington or .308 Winchester calibre chambers or their commercial metrification equivalents. Chamber dimensions must conform to SAAMI or CIP dimensions. Ammunition may be commercially made or hand-loaded as defined in Rule F2.23. There is no restriction on bullet weight. The Restricted rifle class is limited to the use of an attached bipod and/or a sling as front supports, optionally together with a rear bag which provides no positive mechanical means of returning the rifle to its precise point of aim for the next shot . The overall weight must not exceed 8.25kg including all attachments (such as, but not limited to, its sights and bipod, if any). NB: An ‘attachment’ is defined as in Rule F2.2. All other Technical Rules apply.

Regards,

Ian

 

[Obtunded]

What's ICFRA?

International Confederation of Fulbore Rifle Associations. It is the international governing body for fullbore rifle shooting. The intent was to unify the standards and rules for FB shooting,However, if I am not mistaken, the US is not yet on board.

 

[gunster-old]

Correct. It is only the center rings that change for F-Class, with a non-white (can I say that?) .5MOA v-bull.

Now can we get the BC clubs to stop shooting ISSF targets and switch to the ICFRA for their 300M matches, since we use DCRA rules anyway? 50mm is a big v-bull.

Ian
Can I assume that the new ICFRA F-Class targets will have a black (yes, we can say that) .5 MOA V-bull or is it something other than white or black? I was hoping for something other than black to give us a more precise aiming mark.

Just noticed that the ISSF target in your recently published chart have incorrect Imperial dimensions. The Metric dimensions are ok.

Regards

Aubrey

 

[Inspector]

Hi Guys, ICFRA really doesn't have a whole bunch of influence on what we do Nationally or in the PRA's. Like Daniel (Whom I believe was one of our DCRA Reps on the ICFRA Board) indicated, we'll probably use up what targets we have or add a 1/2 minute whatever to the middle. ICFRA is primarily for International Event rule standardization and also becomes the governing and sanctioning body for International Events. What we do here, doesn't mean much in the scheme of things unless we hold an International Fullbore Universal King of the World Championships Match.

Anyway, here's the Official thing I copied out of the latest Rule edition.
ANNEX F/B
DIMENSIONS OF ICFRA TARGETS.
B1. Targets: General
B1.1. Form. All targets will consist of a circular black aiming mark
centred on a white or off-white background. A supplementary
circular white aiming mark may (for domestic purposes only)
be provided within, or coincident with, the V Bull Ring.

B1.2. Frame Sizes.
The standard dimensions are (height x width):
300yds/m: 1.2 x 1.2 metres (4 x 4 foot)
500-700yds: 1.8 x 1.8 metres (6 x 6 foot)
Long Range: The target frame shall not be less than 1.8m
square. Target widths of 2.4m or 3.0m (or
their imperial equivalents) are permissible.
B1.3. Target numbering.
Each target must be clearly numbered.
These numbers must be of such size that they are clearly
visible, to the naked eye, at the furthest distance to be shot on
the targets in question. Corresponding number markers (pegs)
will be placed on the forward edge of each firing point.

B2. The ICFRA International F-Class Target Short Range
B2.1 Details Reserved:
In default, a 1/2 minute V-bull within the
ICFRA International Match Target for short range, with the
original v-bull counting bull-5 and so on is acceptable.

B3. The ICFRA International F-Class Target (Long Range)
In mm - Targets printed in Imperial Units are acceptable
Distance 700m – 1000 yds
Black 1118 (44”)
V-Bull 128 (5”) white ring
Bull 254 (10”)
Inner 508 (20”)
Magpie 815 (32”)
Outer 1118 (44”)
Hit ROT
The bull will count 5 points unless the conditions of the match specify otherwise.

I cut and pasted this and it doesn't look right but I think you get the idea, so Aubrey, to me it says you can put a white whatever in the middle at least for the local domestic situations.

Cheers, Glen

 

[gunster-old]

Thanks Glen, good information. I wonder why the F-Class targets are being supplied without a white V-Bull. It can't be a cost factor and I think a white centre would provide a more precise aiming mark for F-Class just as the large black circle allows TR shooters the perfect aiming reference.

Was this an oversight or are there some F-Class shooters who prefer a black aiming mark? As a member of the over 70 club I can say that a white V-Bull would be a large plus for tired old eyes and can't imagine what the downside would be.

Regards

Aubrey

 

[CyaN1de]

Aubry, I believe BCRA will be using the same type centers as we shot at the BC Championships with the White ring marking the V-Bull.

Homestead uses a light/med gray for their V ring centers and is a little harder to see but is still visible even with my scope turned back a bit.

I definitely prefer an aiming mark such as what we use for our local comps and I have relatively "young" eyes (or so I am told)

As long as the V-Bull is well defined I can live with that too.

 

[CyaN1de]

Hi Guys, ICFRA really doesn't have a whole bunch of influence on what we do Nationally or in the PRA's. Like Daniel (Whom I believe was one of our DCRA Reps on the ICFRA Board) indicated, we'll probably use up what targets we have or add a 1/2 minute whatever to the middle. ICFRA is primarily for International Event rule standardization and also becomes the governing and sanctioning body for International Events. What we do here, doesn't mean much in the scheme of things unless we hold an International Fullbore Universal King of the World Championships Match.

It would make sense to me though to shoot Local, Regional, Provincial and National events on this target so that if/when we attend/host International Matches that we have been practiced on the faces we would be shooting.

I know Mark has ordered a bunch of the 300m and some 500m faces so we will be shooting them locally this winter and for upcoming matches in the spring.

 

[Obtunded]

The lack of a contrasting center is controversial in my mind for all the reasons mentioned, furthermore, when the target gets smothered with patches, you start using the cross hairs on the numbers. Mission went without colored (sorry... pigmentally augmented) centers in their last Spring match and I really did not like that at all. I shot Nanaimo and it was the same... yuck! I hope that the PRA levels will retain a pigmentally embellished aiming mark. (Or create bright yellow reticle refits for our scopes) I guess we will hear more at the AGM.

 

[gunster-old]

"pigmentally embellished aiming mark" - Now that should get their attention at the AGM. I like it.

 

[bushpilotmexico]

As Gunster once told me "Just aim for the centre and do the best you can."

Keep practising,

Cliff

 

[Kodiak99317]

I have emailed Dave Rumbold (and he forwarded this to Jim T. and Serge if I remember right - I'm at work and this info is on my home PC's email system) asking the DCRA to order new add-in centers for the PRA's so we can use up the large supply of the non-ICFRA type targets, even found them a few sources for the centers. Figured the DCRA could get better pricing since they could order for all the PRA's in one go. I think part of the problem is that some ranges are in meters (MPRA,APRA,BCRA) and the SPRA is in yards. Hope something comes from this and we can all start using the wee vee soon and we all are shooting at a 1/2 moa V this coming year. The SPRA has given me the go-ahead also so if the DCRA does nothing by mid Jan of 2009, I will order or make what the SPRA will need for 2009 to make the 1/2 moa wee vee happen at Nokomis.

 

[maple_leaf_eh]

Plan on getting your printing done locally

The SPRA has given me the go-ahead also so if the DCRA does nothing by mid Jan of 2009, I will order or make what the SPRA will need for 2009 to make the 1/2 moa wee vee happen at Nokomis.

A big run of targets was printed by Mapping and Charting Establishment on one of those, 'you've been a good friend all these years ...' deals. I snagged a couple huge rolls of off cuts from a dumpster. Ones that had ink smears or weren't Surficially Pigmentally Enhanced enough. The SPRA might still be shooting them. But the press is running on a different budget these days, and soldier to soldier deals aren't as easy to swing.

 

[Leeper]

How many years did it take for the "F" class to go from George's "any rifle, any sight, fired from any rest" to the confusion reigning today? The target changes are welcome and necessary. The TR changes (trigger and weight) are over due. The class splitting is nothing but a problem all around IMO. As long as we can keep shooting though, I've no reason to complain! Regards, Bill.

 

[Obtunded]

Bill, when I read the F-Restricted and F-TR designations, my skin crawled. I couldn't agree with you more. The last thing we need is to dilute the shooting classes we have now and I know this is being discussed at the AGM. My understanding is that the current pendulum is swinging (at the BCRA level) towards status quo in BC: F/TR and all its requisite specifications, and of course F-Open.

If I were to think of expanding the field in ANY direction, I would support a non-sanctioned sporter class in which people can shoot un-modified sporter rifles F-Style at a TR target (1 MOA bull) and shorter strings. I worry that F-O is too much of a kit race and is becoming the sport of kings. I know Mission has this F-Factory class at their ISSF matches and I think it is terrific! We'd have to exclude a few rifles such as the Savage F, F/TR and BR guns because they are a purpose built target rifle, but....aw,..... I'm just rambling.

We could also have the "Grizzled gunsmith shooting gurus from the Kootenays" class to give you a class of your own and we could let you use any one of your cool and funky 150 year old wildcats. I particularly liked the Musket ballX284 you were thinking of shooting at the farky!!

I have tossed my name out as being willing to run for F-Class director if Chris Dodd wants to take a break. I would like to take the ball and run with lots of ideas, plus I spend far too much time BS'ing here, so I can probably plug into the F-Class switchboard as well as anyone.

Cheers!

Ian