stormbringer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S.W. Ontario
Quigley said:I think a few people owe Mark an apology
And why would that be? He appears to agree with that POV.
New IPSC BC Doubletap
- Thread starter Slavex
- Start date
And why would that be? He appears to agree with that POV.
The first card carrying IPSC shooter I ever saw was standing beside his freakin' overdone Chevy Suburban sporting a shiny nylon sports jacket with striped sleeves and and 6" high IPSC letters splashed all across his back. This was in a body shop (he was a customer). I got the same "aura" off him that I get every time the trap and skeet "boys" come off the line in their matching Beretta gun vests and yellow tinted shooting glasses with matching Gucci shell bags...
I'm much happier to shoot some IPDA with the regular folk. I'm getting way to old to strut. First it'd be IPSC, then a crappy Harley with weekend leathers...then therapy...
IPSC shooters seem to think they are aiming to please the upper class soccer mom crew, but its the factory worker who'll vote you off the island....
I'm much happier to shoot some IPDA with the regular folk. I'm getting way to old to strut. First it'd be IPSC, then a crappy Harley with weekend leathers...then therapy...
IPSC shooters seem to think they are aiming to please the upper class soccer mom crew, but its the factory worker who'll vote you off the island....
Skip said:The first card carrying IPSC shooter I ever saw was standing beside his freakin' overdone Chevy Suburban sporting a shiny nylon sports jacket with striped sleeves and and 6" high IPSC letters splashed all across his back. This was in a body shop (he was a customer). I got the same "aura" off him that I get every time the trap and skeet "boys" come off the line in their matching Beretta gun vests and yellow tinted shooting glasses with matching Gucci shell bags...
I'm much happier to shoot some IPDA with the regular folk. I'm getting way to old to strut. First it'd be IPSC, then a crappy Harley with weekend leathers...then therapy...
IPSC shooters seem to think they are aiming to please the upper class soccer mom crew, but its the factory worker who'll vote you off the island....
Have you ever shot with IPSC folk?
Skip said:The first card carrying IPSC shooter I ever saw was standing beside his freakin' overdone Chevy Suburban sporting a shiny nylon sports jacket with striped sleeves and and 6" high IPSC letters splashed all across his back. This was in a body shop (he was a customer). I got the same "aura" off him that I get every time the trap and skeet "boys" come off the line in their matching Beretta gun vests and yellow tinted shooting glasses with matching Gucci shell bags...
I'm much happier to shoot some IPDA with the regular folk. I'm getting way to old to strut. First it'd be IPSC, then a crappy Harley with weekend leathers...then therapy...
IPSC shooters seem to think they are aiming to please the upper class soccer mom crew, but its the factory worker who'll vote you off the island....
One guy?!?
Skip, you're a reasonable fellah, but that's just retarded. I shot the last BC qualifiers in knickerbockers, tights, while wearing a tilley hat. I looked like I was on some sort of ### excursion mixed with a fishing trip. You make take it as read that I did not "strut".
Besides, the factory workers all vote union friendly NDP.
Bob- I know it was juvenile, I was trying to make a point. And I knew you'd get it, which you did. Of course I am not going to ask for a ban on people over 55. But the simple fact of the matter is, we are making a mountain out of molehills. If someone is not endangering others, than why care what they say or do. The rules governing speed, drunk driving and such, are done as a result of people interacting with each other on the roads. to compare to our shooting sport we need to simply look at the safety rules we have. Dress codes aren't safety rules though, they are simply what's acceptable to someone else's tastes. The original rule about camo was to stop the "Rambo" type people from coming out and giving the sport a bad name. Since none of the "Rambo" gear can be used in our sport though, (camo not withstanding), I really don't see the continuing need to have it. To go back to the tattoo thing, that is an dumber idea as far as I am concerned, and have already expressed that.
As for profanity and such, times change, what's acceptable to some, isn't to others. My generation doesn't really view swearing as anything special, it's just words. But of course the older generation will rail against this, and say it's a sure sign of societies decline, just as their parents did when they heard them talk to other kids their age. simple fact of life, and you're going to have to learn to deal with it.
IPSC is supposed to be about us going out and having fun, safely, with guns. The article in question goes beyond that in my opinion.
As for profanity and such, times change, what's acceptable to some, isn't to others. My generation doesn't really view swearing as anything special, it's just words. But of course the older generation will rail against this, and say it's a sure sign of societies decline, just as their parents did when they heard them talk to other kids their age. simple fact of life, and you're going to have to learn to deal with it.
IPSC is supposed to be about us going out and having fun, safely, with guns. The article in question goes beyond that in my opinion.
My point was this: IPSC on some level is trying to represent itself as something its not. From the squabbles down east to the seemingly constant parade of attitudes that comes out of posts like these, it projects exclusivity, holier than thou, "you're not good enough for us" crap. Trap and skeet ranges do the same thing. I don't shoot IPSC, or trap - won't bother with it, for those reasons. I have shot with many who do. Individually they are great guys (most of them -some are the attitude personified).
The venue will determine the attractiveness of sport as much (or more) as the dress of the participants to non-shooters. Since the intent is apparently to attract the golf-links crowd, IPSC had better spend more time and loads of cash on the ranges. People are not going to go out in their "finery" if they are going to spend the afternoon running around in what appears to be a construction waste site. Golf courses are not laid out on stubble fields.
IPSC's probability in getting into the Olympics is low. There is a significant move to remove ALL shooting sports from the Olympics, not add more, and to get people to the Olympics means LOTS of resources for beginners to work on skills.
The greatest impediment to gun sports development is snobbery from within its ranks.
Here is a suggestion for both trap and IPSC orgs - have a LOT more "intro" days, geared for both shooters and non-shooters. IPSC oriented clubs should set up some well designed, well maintained permanent basic stages on their ranges that allow wannabees and newbies a chance to practice/try their hand, without having to go into a competition to see if it might be fun. Make me want to play - don't push me away with attitude. I read constantly about the bickering within IPSC here and I have to ask myself, with my limited shooting time and all the crap I fight over just trying to keep my guns, why would I bother ?
The venue will determine the attractiveness of sport as much (or more) as the dress of the participants to non-shooters. Since the intent is apparently to attract the golf-links crowd, IPSC had better spend more time and loads of cash on the ranges. People are not going to go out in their "finery" if they are going to spend the afternoon running around in what appears to be a construction waste site. Golf courses are not laid out on stubble fields.
IPSC's probability in getting into the Olympics is low. There is a significant move to remove ALL shooting sports from the Olympics, not add more, and to get people to the Olympics means LOTS of resources for beginners to work on skills.
The greatest impediment to gun sports development is snobbery from within its ranks.
Here is a suggestion for both trap and IPSC orgs - have a LOT more "intro" days, geared for both shooters and non-shooters. IPSC oriented clubs should set up some well designed, well maintained permanent basic stages on their ranges that allow wannabees and newbies a chance to practice/try their hand, without having to go into a competition to see if it might be fun. Make me want to play - don't push me away with attitude. I read constantly about the bickering within IPSC here and I have to ask myself, with my limited shooting time and all the crap I fight over just trying to keep my guns, why would I bother ?
- Location
- Halifax - NS
To clarify, IPSC is not looking for inclusion in the Olympics, just recognition by GAISF.Skip said:
Skip said:
My first experience of IPSC was this: I wanted to start reloading, so I posted right here on CGN that I was looking for someone to let me watch while he reloaded.
Our very own Dr. Nick replied, and asked me to meet him at 3 gun match at Smiths Falls.
Everybody there, every single person, asked me if I wanted to try it. For free. Offers to loan equipment. Everyone. It was a wonderful group of people.
While it's true the golf shirt is the predominant piece of clothing, right up there with cargo pants, the soccer jersey is gaining fast. Most people wear cleats.
As for the golf links crowd, have you been golfing lately? The sport of golf has gone to great lengths to become more broad based. There are all kinds on the links these days.
There is zero chance of ever getting IPSC into the Olympics. Luckily, the olympics is the most heartless, rotten sham this side of the UN. Who'd want to go there?
Skip, you can say that about bowling. Every sport is like that. I double dog dare you to go to a dressage competition (stupid horse dancing). There is all but hair pulling there!
These are called "club matches", and they are about once a month at most clubs. How do you let the non-shooters know they exist? Only people who are alerady into IPSc toruble to keep track of when matches are.
I'll jump in right here with range rule #2: anything left on a range will get the $hit shot out of it. Not by the IPSC guys, but by the... how did you put it? The "regular folk".
Not to put too fine a point on it, but nobody is born knowing how to run hot out of a holster, and shoot while moving... safely. It's a conundrum, but I think the consensus is to err slightly on the side of safety. Please come to a club match, and try IPSC under the supervision of an RO, or take the black badge course.
That same bickering you mention exists in every sport, right down to synchronized swimming.
Skip, if you come to a club match.... anywhere on god's green earth... pm me and I'll pay your match fee. If you're in the lower mainland of BC, pm me, and I'll come to your house, drive you to the range, pay your match fee, then drive you home. I won't even expect ###ual favors.
Shooting IPSc isn't a bother, to me. I find it to be a tremendous amount of fun. But then, I have godlike mastery of all things IPSC.... hah! Sorry, couldn't keep a straight face!
Skip said:Thank you. Instead of dealing with my comments, you dismissed me outright, thereby proving my point.
What Quigley doesn't know is that you are a really good ####.
You'll have to forgive Quiggles. Us IPSC guys can get a little short tempered when we hear the same tired old judgemental criticisms of IPSC from people who never gave it a fair shake.
You can imagine how that can get really old, right? You have to understand that every time some ignorant bumlooker starts getting down on IPSC, they trot out the same tired old "snobby" and "flashy outfits" stuff, generously laced with a few "politically correct"s.
Understand, Skip, I'm not saying anything about you. You are a right on guy. You just happened to have said the same things as a number of people who have been blisters on our asses for years. Quig's response was nothing personal.
Skip said:Thank you. Instead of dealing with my comments, you dismissed me outright, thereby proving my point.
Hey...I didn't say a word about you personally...I just stated a fact. IPSC doesn't judge as harshly as you...
So you met a few bad apples...guess what...you'll meet the same crowd in golf...boating...ice fishing...need I go on?
I didn't prove your point...it's just that your point is so anointed with hipocrisy that I couldn't help myself. "Hey that IPSC guy I met was an asshat...I think I'll bash them all"
Trust me...I deal with the "select few' on a daily basis...and trust me...there aren't many (and there not the ones you would expect). Of course my opinion is based on actual experience...not a casual encounter.
Dan...I'm a big boy...and I don't post unless I have a point to make...so no need to apoligise on my behalf
Skip...go ahead and continue bashing us...the jokes on you...you have no idea what you're missing
"club" is correct. Club matches have very little to do with attracting new members or opening the sport to non-shooters. For lessons about that, talk to Stormbringer. Dressage? Please... maybe the comparison is not too far fetched.
Rightly or wrongly, IPSC is/has built a reputation up for itself as an anal, snobbish pursuit for people with big egos and big wallets. Just read the IPSC threads on the first page of this forum. Wah, wah, wah all through the threads.
I don't doubt for a minute that when you guys, particularly Nutz, get together for a shoot you have a good time, but you sure do spend a lot of time, too much time, bickering. So where's the attraction? Its like going to dinner with a couple of friends who are about to divorce, but can't figure out what to do with the assets.
IPSC needs to fix its house. It needs to figure out what it exists for and for who. My home club has had maybe one IPSC event in 5 years - this is a club of 500 members, of which 1-200 "support" the handgun range (20 showed up for the annual meeting in which events and range development are discussed. The word IPSC never came up. There was a lot of discussion about SASS and CA events on on the books (this is Ontario don't forget), in addition to the regular fun shoots held every summer), even though we have stands lying around all over with "IPSC" marked on them.
I am IPDA/CDPA certifed - took the second CSSA CDPA course offered. IPDA is gaining ground because its all the things IPSC is not.
My point is this: you guys are caroming off one another over the minutiae of rules, and dress, so as to be politically correct, but you're not addressing the issues that will keep people away from the sport. They're not lining up for "dressage" either. I re-iterate what I said earlier: IPSC needs to fix its house. It needs to figure out what it exists for and for who.
Quigley, you continue to demonstrate my point...
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Skip said:"club" is correct. Club matches have very little to do with attracting new members or opening the sport to non-shooters. For lessons about that, talk to Stormbringer. Dressage? Please... maybe the comparison is not too far fetched.
Rightly or wrongly, IPSC is/has built a reputation up for itself as an anal, snobbish pursuit for people with big egos and big wallets. Just read the IPSC threads on the first page of this forum. Wah, wah, wah all through the threads.
I don't doubt for a minute that when you guys, particularly Nutz, get together for a shoot you have a good time, but you sure do spend a lot of time, too much time, bickering. So where's the attraction? Its like going to dinner with a couple of friends who are about to divorce, but can't figure out what to do with the assets.
IPSC needs to fix its house. It needs to figure out what it exists for and for who. My home club has had maybe one IPSC event in 5 years - this is a club of 500 members, of which 1-200 "support" the handgun range (20 showed up for the annual meeting in which events and range development are discussed. The word IPSC never came up. There was a lot of discussion about SASS and CA events on on the books (this is Ontario don't forget), in addition to the regular fun shoots held every summer), even though we have stands lying around all over with "IPSC" marked on them.
I am IPDA/CDPA certifed - took the second CSSA CDPA course offered. IPDA is gaining ground because its all the things IPSC is not.
My point is this: you guys are caroming off one another over the minutiae of rules, and dress, so as to be politically correct, but you're not addressing the issues that will keep people away from the sport. They're not lining up for "dressage" either. I re-iterate what I said earlier: IPSC needs to fix its house. It needs to figure out what it exists for and for who.
Quigley, you continue to demonstrate my point...
Well, I tried.
Skip, you haven't given IPSC a fair shake, and instead of considering my ponts, you've become defensive. You, my friend, are an Anti, every bit as bad as Windy and her crew.
Skip said:"club" is correct. Club matches have very little to do with attracting new members or opening the sport to non-shooters. For lessons about that, talk to Stormbringer. Dressage? Please... maybe the comparison is not too far fetched.
Rightly or wrongly, IPSC is/has built a reputation up for itself as an anal, snobbish pursuit for people with big egos and big wallets. Just read the IPSC threads on the first page of this forum. Wah, wah, wah all through the threads.
I don't doubt for a minute that when you guys, particularly Nutz, get together for a shoot you have a good time, but you sure do spend a lot of time, too much time, bickering. So where's the attraction? Its like going to dinner with a couple of friends who are about to divorce, but can't figure out what to do with the assets.
IPSC needs to fix its house. It needs to figure out what it exists for and for who. My home club has had maybe one IPSC event in 5 years - this is a club of 500 members, of which 1-200 "support" the handgun range (20 showed up for the annual meeting in which events and range development are discussed. The word IPSC never came up. There was a lot of discussion about SASS and CA events on on the books (this is Ontario don't forget), in addition to the regular fun shoots held every summer), even though we have stands lying around all over with "IPSC" marked on them.
I am IPDA/CDPA certifed - took the second CSSA CDPA course offered. IPDA is gaining ground because its all the things IPSC is not.
My point is this: you guys are caroming off one another over the minutiae of rules, and dress, so as to be politically correct, but you're not addressing the issues that will keep people away from the sport. They're not lining up for "dressage" either. I re-iterate what I said earlier: IPSC needs to fix its house. It needs to figure out what it exists for and for who.
Quigley, you continue to demonstrate my point...
I have to say, you either have had;
*a very bad experience with IPSC (no, you haven't even shot a match)
*Been talking to some disgruntled guy in who tried IPSC briefly, but it was too fast for his abilities, and started bashing it. (ie; they don't use cover in IPSC= I have to slow down to think about what I am doing, although it is just another shooting game and if I want people to shoot back at me I should go to Iraq and run down the street with a US & A military uniform on)
* you are basing your judgement on what you have read on an internet site and have taken it as Gospel!
* big wallets in IPSC,........? Some people can afford different types of equipment, some choose to just stick with Fobus and bladetech holsters and there out of the box pistol and do pretty damn excellent. Yes it is more expensive to shoot in Open division. I imagine there is some pretty big $ going thru some divisions in IDPA!!
I don't understand how you can state IPSC has to fix its house, yet you don't participate in any matches or don't compete at all.
That is like me saying, those soccer players in FIFA have to fix their house! I don't have a clue even what FIFA stands for or anything about them,....because I don't participate in FIFA events or even play soccer!
I am being defensive of a sport I participate in because people read your posts and may think you are speaking from experience and knowledge, and this may stop people from trying to take up the sport.
If I was a push-over I would not have said anything.
You really have to give IPSC a try, and when you go out to your first match, you will be humbled at how well other people shoot in your division.
As soon as IDPA or CDPA or PPC comes to NB, I will be one of the 1st guys to try it out. It is a sport like IPSC. I am not that narrow minded to think that IPSC is everything and the only shooting sport, and I would like to try other shooting sports. For right now, only IPSC is active in my area, and I think Bullseye is too but I haven't had time to try it.
I am sure the people introducing me to the other sports will be just as friendly and helpfull as the folks in NB and NS were when I decided to take my Blackbadge and started attending matches.
I have had people put me up in there homes to attend matches and such, after having only known them for a short while! When you get to a match, everyone is happy to see you and the comraderie starts right away! Other sports are not like that, look at hockey, baseball, soccer. People don't show up and start joking around with each other right away!!,
You are totally off-base saying that IPSC shooters are a bunch of anal stuck -ups with big Ego's! Nothing could be farther from the truth.
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