New Optics line development - Need your input

Fixed 10 power with 34mm tube tracking turrets in mil with matching retical, if it won't track don't bother with tactical turrets.
 
My requirement for an AR optic was:

low magnification, greater than 1 but lower than 4;

A real reticle, not a hologram, projection or occluded image;

overall length shorter than the upper receiver of an AR-15, which is about 200mm.

I looked for a long time before the new prismatic styles appeared, which are a bit heavy and bulky, but acceptable. If I could have found what I was looking for in a conventional riflescope style with 30mm tube I would have jumped on it.
 
Superchunk said:
Take a look at what Vortex is doing. The new AMG should be your benchmark for a minimum quality standard, and their reticle is simply perfect for the market it was designed for, which is the exponentially growing PRS style. IMHO, here's a wish list of what I'd like to see, if you were to compete in this field.

Magnification; 5-27X allows for spotting mirage and longer range targets, with just enough FOV on the wide end for close engagements. Don't need <4X, or >28X.

Reticle; H59, EBR-3, MSR, H2CMR.

Turrets; Vortex Gen ii Razor HD owners will probably tell you these are the best, and I'll agree. S&B are fantastic, but in the hand, I'd rather have a Burris XTRii for their feel and easy readability. 0.1 mil clicks, revolution indicator, zero stop, keyless zero reset.

Glass; plenty of offerings; Voigtlander, B&L. IOR has a strong reputation for pristine glass in their Recon scope, Schott CCR48 Glass, I believe. This should be your minimum. See next comment.

Coatings; you should approach Voigtlander, who makes sublime camera optics, about being the glass/coatings supplier. I can't imagine having the glass from one of my Noxtilux lenses in a scope.... that would be like heaven.

Cant assist; the US Optics ER-25 has an optional internal level. I'd like to see an internal LED indicator, that illuminates the left or right horizontal cross hair, to show level. You should speak with STABILA about incorporating this tech into the scope Since you're already using a power supply for illumination, no reason you can't draw from it for a micro level.

Zoom. Think about an indexed Pull-turn-release self locking indexed ring, instead of a high friction ring, which often requires an auxiliary handle for leverage. This would permit a simple change in magnification, without the risk of losing your vertical or sight picture from excessive movement.

Paralax knob. Make this oversized slightly. Fine adjustment is key, and this is where you need it.

Eye relief. 3.5-4", but this is a personal preference.

Tube/lens: 34mm/50mm is a nice combination when top quality glass is used. You get more working space in the tube for mechanics, structure, and reticle diameter, and the smaller front element(50mm) lets that scope get right down on the barrel. With the new breed of action-in-chassis rifles, this is an important feature so you don't end up with a scope sitting 2" on centre above the barrel, especially when running a 20+moa base.

Mounts: The AADmount with internal tritium level is getting rave reviews, and the Cadex Defense Unified Ring system has great options in a light weight model. Combine the two and you have a winner.

Finish: Satin black cerakote, white turret markings, Top Dead Centre etched line marking to aid in alignment, and good caps provided.

Extra: Incorporate the Spuhr wedge levelling system.

Packaging: Ship it in a hard case. There are plenty of cost effective options that will pay dividends, especially when all the "unboxing" videos start getting released. If you watch a few that have thousands of views, you'll see how much emphasis is put on the packaging as a measure of value. It sucks to think like that, but is a simple truth that can't be ignored; people love nice packaging.
All told needed for correct installation, should be available at the point of purchase of the scope. Torque driver, alan keys, levelling devices, turret indexing wall chart, dope sheet templates for microsoft excel, etc.

Support: as much effort should go into customer support as should scope design. If a new buyer wants to set up his scope, he should be able to go to the website, and see concise tutorials, in clear, HD video, with links to technical manuals in PDF form.

Warranty: Lifetime no questions asked is the base these days, offered by Vortex, Athlon, Burris and others. Yours should be no different.

If you want to speak further, PM me and I'd love to discuss working with you on this project.
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5-27, good turrets, H59, Voigtlander glass? heck they should brand the scople Voigtlander...one can dream:)
 
littlehughey said:
Please do not mix MOA and milradians in a scope. Keep MOA reticles with MOA adjustments and mil reticles with mil adjustments. Also, a simple fixed 10x scope with mil reticle and mil adjustments would fill a void. (Although I've been out of the market for a while and I am unsure if anyone is producing these now)
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Agreed, simple fixed 10x scope mil/mil or moa/moa adjustments and tactical turrets.
 
Fixed 4x and 6x on a 30mm tube with a FD1 reticle. Hey, you asked.
Who will 'win' out? Target, Tactical or Hunter?
 
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Familygunnutz said:
5-27, good turrets, H59, Voigtlander glass? heck they should brand the scople Voigtlander...one can dream:)
Click to expand...

Voigtlander made scopes in the past, and their current lenses come out of the same factory as some of the most optically correct on the planet, namely Leica Summi's and Tessars. If they were willing to sit down and review the Vortex business model, and evaluate the scope market, I'd say they'd be a contender. This would be a year long process at least, but just imagine what a piece of kit that would be.

My Canon L series pro glass, and Cooke S4 cine lenses($25k a piece), can barely hold up against my Voightlanders for sharpness, aberrations and clarity, and they're for a Micro 4/3 system..... ohhhhh the possibilities....
 
I would look at what the super snipers offer. If they were readily available in Canada I would have a 10x and a 5-20x already, and also love there reticle. They are close to perfect when you combine reliability, features, glass, and price. As far as magnification I agree that the 1-4/6x market is clouded but I don't have any of these optics so I won't comment. Forget the 3-9x market it is filled to the brim with cheap to expensive options from brands people already trust and love and most people buy a hunting scope and keep it and even transfer it from rifle to new rifle. target / PRS shooters seem a lot more willing to change and try new things it seems. I would shoot for a 3/4/5-15/16/20 range. Just my opinion though.
 
Do you mean the quality will be at the Schmidt-Bender and IOR level? Or just that you like the features of those brands?

It would be great if:
(1) Each click does exactly what it is supposed to do consistently.
(2) Once zeroed it does not shift.
(3) If anything goes wrong, it is backed up by the kind of warranty Vortex offers.
(4) Accurate side parallax adjustments.
(5) Compact 1-6.
(6) Compact fixed 6.
(7) Usable built in back-up iron on top, better that the ones on the Elcan scopes.
 
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2-10 power, in a 30mm and 1 inch tube, and probably a 42 or 44 for the 1 inch for the small and lightweight crowd, and 50 or 52mm for the 30mm tube for that other crowd.

I like the "rapid Z 600" Zeiss style, and probably the plain cross hair style.

If you have the Z plex you don't really need turrets, which I find too obtuse for bush hunting, and if you have a 2-10 power your probably using it for thick bush. My prostaff 7 2.5-10x50 has turrets with caps that are a bit of a compromise.

Some of the redfield scopes are too short to mount on some rifles, like savage LA's, so having a really short scope tube although lighter has some disadvantages.
 
The next Trijicon/Elcan killer.

Something that has good reticles to pick from, adjusts internally (Elcan is external adjustment), durable, may or may not run on expensive batteries, good eye relief and is competitive in costs against the above brands. The Elcan has good eye relief, external adjustments (not that great an idea), heavy and has very limited (but very good) reticles. The Trijicon has terrible eye relief (the 4x ACOG is REALLY short, the TA11 is very good), internal adjustments (good), lighter weight than Elcan, and has a nice array of reticles to pick from.

There hasn't been anything that rivals Trijicon/Elcan in this shooting magnification (4X) for quite some time...
 
something ultralight .

Lots of $ being spent on ultralight rifles such as the Sako Carbonlight or Ti actions and # 1 contour barrels. People spend thousands on light rifles...but are forced to put on heavy optics. Other then the Leupold vx 2 ultralight there are basically nobody catering to the light weight optics crowd
 
I would like a small 1-3x / 1-2.5x

Ideally something not more than 5" long.

Simple cross hair, or duplex, or. Even German post.
 
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