New Scope Recommendation

:)

had fun catching up on the drama.... OP's question was about high mag variable target scope for Bench shooting. Got some great answers from some very experienced F class shooters... pity not everyone is listening.

Then it kind of hung a left ... as things typically go and way off topic.... and of course, some mud slinging whenever possible

Since it was brought it up.

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72 registered shooters... some practiscore glitches. The 783 continues to run without fuss and I am running a unique chamber/bullet combo.... more testing mid Oct at the next BCPRL match.

I get a chuckle to those few that can't post a response without trying to insult something or someone to try and add credibility to their position. It would be more credible if they just demonstrated their opinions through their results.

Ummmm, real world results and experience. What an interesting concept????

Jerry

And Jerry,

You are always quick to tout your BC PRL accomplishments to gain some sort of credibility with the PRS crowd and with those who are trying to get into it.

I know people that have shot in and have helped to organize the BC PRL matches, and they have a long way to go. Your only national PRS match was the Canadian Sharpshooter Classic, in which you shot in the bottom half and shot only 32% of the points that the winner (Jon Pynch) did. I've shot one Canadian national level two day PRS match, the first Meaford match, so I know what the level of competition is like in Canada. Jon Pynch strategically chose to shoot the Canadian Sharpshooter Classic as he knew that it was going to be an easy win - his usual top competitors he faces in the US weren't going to be at that match, and he essentially said as much in one of his podcasts. This isn't a slight against the Canadian PRS shooters, it's so grass roots up in Canada that shooters just haven't had the time in the sport and experience to be competitive at the US level yet and the scores at Canadian PRS matches reflect that. It's a huge eye opener for a lot of Canadians that are used to the local grass roots club matches (such as BC PRL) and attend their first two day national level PRS match - I saw it at Meaford and Jon Pynch mentioned it in his podcast how discouraged he saw a lot of Canadian shooters were, it's an eye opener. I bet it was for you as well, going from podium finishes in the BC PRL matches to barely shooting 32% of the points that the winner did in an actual sanctioned PRS match.

That's great that your rifle is working for you in your small bubble of a PRS world, but keep in mind that your experience is pretty small in scope in the hemisphere of the PRS world. Your rifle has only competed in "PRS" matches in BC and AB, it's hardly been subjected to adverse conditions, nor have you had the opportunity to test your rifle and PRS skillset against shooters that have been in the game for a long time (well, except Jon Pynch, and we see how that stacked up).

If you want a good test of the 783's reliability, it would behoove you to shoot in matches in really dusty and adverse conditions such as Oklahoma, Texas, Utah, New Mexico, etc. There's a reason why high reliability in adverse conditions is at the fore front of PRS rifle design. There's been many, many rifles that have gone down throughout the years in matches, and shooters and manufacturers have learned a lot along the way and products have improved drastically as a result. People don't use benchrest equipment in PRS anymore, as that equipment has a tendency to fail in PRS conditions (I'm looking at you, Jewel triggers). Benchrest shooters like to poke fun at the gear PRS shooters are using, but they don't understand the evolution of the sport, nor the conditions that some of these matches are shot in. There's a lot of great budget gear specifically built with PRS in mind, that are much more suited to the sport than the 783. I can appreciate if you want to play around with a new platform and make it work for you (in this case the 783), but to suggest to those that want to get into the sport it is the best and/or only budget option available for PRS (both of which you have done) is very disingenuous and does a disservice to newer shooters trying to get into PRS. There's a lot of budget options available today that are designed for PRS and have a lot of aftermarket support. The 783 just doesn't have the support and accessories available to optimize it for PRS shooting.

Your time in the sport is still very young, and you are going to learn a lot if you keep at it and expose your horizons to more actual PRS events in different locations. Like everyone else that has participated in the sport for any duration of time, your equipment is going to evolve as you put it to the test in tougher matches and more adverse conditions, and find out what works and what doesn't. Your gear and tactics will also evolve as you shoot different stages/COF designed by different match directors. Your "PRS" rig looks a lot different than those who have been shooting the sport for a long time, and I suspect that it will evolve if you take up the sport seriously and expose yourself to more matches and shoot in different regions.

This post isn't meant to be a slight against you, you are the one that posted the picture of your trophy in an attempt to get credibility. I do admire your willingness to pick up a new shooting discipline. I personally need to round out my shooting skillset more by trying my hand at some local benchrest matches. I've never met you, and I don't hold anything against you as an individual. But I do think that a lot of your advice to the PRS crowd is misguided, mostly due to your lack of experience in the sport.
 
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Since your post was very fair and congenial, I will respond to you.... The 783 experiment, and it is an experiment, was to prove a point... and it has. Very slowly, more widget and bits are coming to support the 783. Will it change the sport, that will depend on Big Green.....

2.5yrs ago when I started this project, I tinkered with the 783 to see how bad it would be (really!). Afterall, the other Rem entry level plastic fantastics were horrid. Surprising to me, the 783 had a great blend of engineering and materials, and well manf and assembled. The action is dimensioned for AICS mag feeding with some machined areas having no benefit to the factory parts. It also shares features I know help an action to shoot accurately... and as I have demonstrated, does the job very well.

Remember, my experiment is about the action... not about my overall PRS skills. In Hanna, wow, did I get a beating... learnt alot which I applied to good affect in Merritt. The 783 functioned without a fault. Will keep learning and evolving... see how I do going forward. But you enjoy discounting these local matches but let's look at from another perspective.

71 other shooters signed up... the vast majority using what is considered current tech... and me. If my gear was so poor and ill suited, and me with so little experience, why am I getting on podiums?

If at the core of any PRS rifle is reliability and current tech is supposed to offer this, why are so many rifles running into operational problems? And this is not a Cdn issue... plenty of evidence (video) showing all sorts of functional problems at US matches too. Why don't all rifles run like Nick Gardazi's (sp?)?

What didn't surprise me was that critics like yourself have never taken the time to actually look at, understand and beat on the 783. It was/is dismissed out of hand because it didn't fit the 'mold', and was cheap.... me, I look at function above all. Couldn't care less what it costs... if it does what I need, I get it. "pretty" is not one of the metrics I worry about either... for many in the PRS game, sure seems to be.

and that is the point of the continued experiment. If you take the time to look at the design and material of the 783, it will surprise you how different it is vs the 700's built under the same banner. There are features that some custom actions would benefit from... yes, I get to see and play with a broad range of custom stuff.

If you are concerned about fine dust, then the gaps and spaces inherent in the design, coupled with a floating bolt head and "rattly" bolt body should be of interest to you... and how smooth these features allow the action to run.

I will pose a challenge to you.... keep an open mind. If someone proposes a new and very different concept, at the very least, understand the WHY behind it. Advancements in any technical field happens incrementally.... new ideas are tried and either succeed and push things along, or fail and can be dismissed... and being different is definitely the point.

Cause I am sure you understand the definition of insanity......

All the best in your shooting endeavors.

Jerry

PS... a new experiment is beginning based on my recent success in rimfire "prs" matches.
 
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I’ve been thinking the repeated insistences in earlier posts that good glass “sees through mirage” is just a misinterpretation of sharpness and resolution.

What most might call decent glass or mid priced glass simply does not have the sharpness to see the fine detail that nice HD glass does.

I think the difference in the reduced ability to resolve detail is mistakenly attributed to mirage and not just differences in sharpness.

Many people fall into the trap where they think they need higher magnification to see detail, but that is not the root problem… it’s just a low sharpness problem.

It’s not that HD glass sees through mirage at all, it’s just that mirage looks like mirage with good glass and not just an out of focus blur that mid range glass provides.
 
I'm looking at new scopes for a 6.5CM for benchrest shooting. The scopes I'm currently looking at are a Sightron S3 10-50x60, Nightforce Precision Benchrest 12-42x56and Burris XTR II 8-40x50. Any feedback on these scopes for long range shooting? Anything other scopes that should be considered that are comparable in price?

i don't usually comment on scope threads as allot comes down to preference.

however of the three you selected i have owned and tried two. no opinion on the Burris.

Nightforce BR is the winner of the remaining with a couple of caveats.
The BR version has an focus adjustment on the ocular not on the side. if you are tall this is no issue even when prone. but lots of people do not like it
The BR has 6moa turrets. adjusting elevation even for mid distances 400 plus will have you spinning two to three revolutions. something to consider
The glass is clear and sharp you will be vary happy with the resolution...i own a March

Sightron: Specific to this model only S3 10-50x60 i have nothing positive to say; and i will leave it at that.

other options
Vortex golden eagle 15-60x52... they had a rough showing at the worlds for Team Canada but have gotten better.
Delta - Stryker HD 5-50x56mm SFP. i know only a few folks with this scope it is solid offering but heavy and $500 more than the Nightforce BR.

Good luck in your search
Trevor
 
Benchrest.........a sport that very few in CGN know anything about........

fixed power scopes can be your friend, nice and light and fewer moving parts that may or may not move to where you want them and hold there, you don't need to break the bank to get to 500 meters, weaver T36 scope is still the most common scope seen on the firing line, followed by the sighton 10-50 and nightforce 15-55 flavors if weight isn't an option, if it is, then the nightforce 42x benchrest scope is the way to go.

fine crosshair, anything else is going to clutter your aim and distract you from your very small aim point on the target, your going to know the distance of your targets so all this tactical FFS iluminated christmas tree side focus stuff is not needed, or desired....

asking for scope or rifle recommendations on this forum is akin to asking an electrician what's wrong with the engine in your wife's car.......go to a match, see what's working for people and what isn't, asking here just gets you the answer that no one reads your question fully before trying to provide you with the best answer for your needs, now I'll grab my popcorn and wait for all the vortex guys to chime in and really steer you in the wrong direction
 
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