New Sig P320 (New CF Pistol?)
- Thread starter Gurkha
- Start date
dangertree
Business Rep
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- NL/ON/FL/PL
Agreed re manufacturing data, however, it was Kitchener, Ontario rather than Quebec.
225 is not being made anymore, that being said if you offered a contract for 200,000, they would start making them again. I love Sigs, but if equipping an army I would get the G19 and spend the money we save on training and ammo.
Thank you.
I agree with buying new HP's but I don't see us spending more time training on pistols.
Well it seems like ever since the Glock ( I own one by the way) and the advent of striker fired pistols, there is this mystical phenomenon on how SA handguns are unsafe, DA/SA's require too much training, manual safeties are bad because you'll forget them (I mean how did we ever get by with those), and the extra few Oz's of weight is "TOO HEAVY".
Everybody wants a $500 gun that has the least #### possible (even features), has an idiot proof trigger with a 12lbs pull and cannot require excessive training to gain proficiency. Oh yea and can't be over 9mm in Caliber because that's "too much" and requires too much training.
Everybody wants a $500 gun that has the least #### possible (even features), has an idiot proof trigger with a 12lbs pull and cannot require excessive training to gain proficiency. Oh yea and can't be over 9mm in Caliber because that's "too much" and requires too much training.
critter928
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- in interesting times
I thought you knew the history behind everything CF procurement wise?
I guess officers don't know everything after all.
And the MP's got the P225 because they were purchased for CF pilots short notice for Desert Storm, being slim enough to comfortably carry in a shoulder holster.
Having bought over a thousand of them, when the war was over and the MP's asked for a new pistol, they just reissued them the extra airforce ones.
It was not that they asked for a single stack 9mm, they just got what was already in the system.
And now you know.
Ugh...
We needed to drag this thread here too?
Not pull the trigger for disassembly was a clever way to disallow the Glock...
Requirements can be cleverly written to give advantages to one model, without writing a sole source justification. Happens all the time, when what should be a fair and open competition is skewed by a user/requirement writer toward a favored system.
We needed to drag this thread here too?
Not pull the trigger for disassembly was a clever way to disallow the Glock...
Requirements can be cleverly written to give advantages to one model, without writing a sole source justification. Happens all the time, when what should be a fair and open competition is skewed by a user/requirement writer toward a favored system.
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Obliged to you for the information. Will now go ahead and ignore the taunts.
Yes, of course but was there a favored system in this case?
Beats me - I had nothing to do with the requirement.
My guess from looking at the requirements - this was a kitchen sink deal -- they asked several entities/individuals for their input - but never offered a weighting measurement for requirements - especially conflicting requirements (i.e. if you cannot do both, what is more important). My guess is some favored the Glock, some the Sig, and some other pistols -- it ended up being a requirement that kinda shot everyone in the foot.
I do know that some in CANSOF had looked at the Glock a few years ago due to both other folks who have them, and a certain few personalities that shot and really like Glock in the command. Keep in mind the only reason the P226 ended up at the Hill was the RCMP SERT usage initially... There never where any pistol requirements written for CANSOFCOM - folks just moved from 226 to 226R, and 228's etc where acquired for other activities due to familiarity of platform.
My guess from looking at the requirements - this was a kitchen sink deal -- they asked several entities/individuals for their input - but never offered a weighting measurement for requirements - especially conflicting requirements (i.e. if you cannot do both, what is more important). My guess is some favored the Glock, some the Sig, and some other pistols -- it ended up being a requirement that kinda shot everyone in the foot.
I do know that some in CANSOF had looked at the Glock a few years ago due to both other folks who have them, and a certain few personalities that shot and really like Glock in the command. Keep in mind the only reason the P226 ended up at the Hill was the RCMP SERT usage initially... There never where any pistol requirements written for CANSOFCOM - folks just moved from 226 to 226R, and 228's etc where acquired for other activities due to familiarity of platform.
Moral of the story, don't always attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence or inexperience. The army is going to have to accept that the next generation of pistol is going to be semi-disposable. Seriously at Glock's mil price, it's not worth doing to much gun plumbing on it, but no doubt they will do $500 worth of repairs on s $300 pistol. pretty much all of the new breed of polymer pistols are good and for the average user will be fine. for the ski team, let them have greater choices as they may need certain features the average tanker may not.
Pulling the trigger to disassemble the gun is a double edged sword. From Gaston's perspective, it made darn sure the gun was empty before taking it down, a good thing. From the safety perspective it could lead to an AD.
I know training can prevent misadventures but accidents do happen....and have with Glocks for this reason.
I don't think it is fair to write it into the requirements that the new gun cannot be taken down without pulling the trigger. Let the guns compete and have a fair comparison of the pros and cons of each one, including how they are taken down.
Rich
I know training can prevent misadventures but accidents do happen....and have with Glocks for this reason.
I don't think it is fair to write it into the requirements that the new gun cannot be taken down without pulling the trigger. Let the guns compete and have a fair comparison of the pros and cons of each one, including how they are taken down.
Rich
Pulling the trigger for dis-assembly doesn't lead to NDs any more than putting your car in gear leads to speeding.
That is 100% a personal safety issue, not a gun design one. Someone who doesn't unload a firearm before dis-assembly will be careless/unsafe regardless of how the firearm in taken down.
Shawn
- Location
- land of f-cktards
You will never see new HPs because the people who shoot the fricken things once or twice a year think they suck because they couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.
as for the trigger issue ..... well , i have heard them all , even with the sigs .....as they are a dangerous weapon because there is no safety..........Its a fricken weapon ! they are all dangerous!
It wouldn't surprise me to see the procurement of a new unproven platform that nobody else uses , i am sure it will be great !
Whatever they go with i am sure that everyone will think its great and then hate it after about 5 years!
as for the trigger issue ..... well , i have heard them all , even with the sigs .....as they are a dangerous weapon because there is no safety..........Its a fricken weapon ! they are all dangerous!
It wouldn't surprise me to see the procurement of a new unproven platform that nobody else uses , i am sure it will be great !
Whatever they go with i am sure that everyone will think its great and then hate it after about 5 years!
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shawn, I agree with you but the fact that you have to dry fire it to disassemble it is a factor good or bad, one cannot simply ignore this fact. This gun will be given to the "masses". Not everyone who get's issued this gun will be a gun person.
The "Gun People", like many on this form, will adapt / train and do well with whatever they are issued.
Glock / Sig / HK, maybe not in that order...any one would be a fine choice.
Rich
The "Gun People", like many on this form, will adapt / train and do well with whatever they are issued.
Glock / Sig / HK, maybe not in that order...any one would be a fine choice.
Rich
Quoted for truth.
Most people are notoriously bad at shooting with pistols so they won't obtain minute of barn accuracy no matter what you hand them. I wouldn't venture so far as to say weapons are dangerous, I'd definitely argue that weapons in the hands of dangerous/negligent people are though.
- Location
- West Quebec
It's the Canadian procurement way and usually winds up costing us the tax payers a lot more.. the justification usually is more jobs !!
