New Sig P320 (New CF Pistol?)

[Magellann]

Ugh...
Requirements can be cleverly written to give advantages to one model, without writing a sole source justification. Happens all the time, when what should be a fair and open competition is skewed by a user/requirement writer toward a favored system.

Thats what I was thinking as well.

 

[silverfoxdj]

Moral of the story, don't always attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence or inexperience. The army is going to have to accept that the next generation of pistol is going to be semi-disposable. Seriously at Glock's mil price, it's not worth doing to much gun plumbing on it, but no doubt they will do $500 worth of repairs on s $300 pistol. pretty much all of the new breed of polymer pistols are good and for the average user will be fine. for the ski team, let them have greater choices as they may need certain features the average tanker may not.

It almost seems they are trying to skew the buy towards Colt Canada.. ???

 

[shawn]

shawn, I agree with you but the fact that you have to dry fire it to disassemble it is a factor good or bad, one cannot simply ignore this fact.

Factor in what? And what is the fact?

That there is no correlation between NDs and having to touch the trigger to dis-assemble?

This gun will be given to the "masses". Not everyone who get's issued this gun will be a gun person.

Guess what they already are issued to the "masses" by the hundreds of thousands all across the world. And yet they is no rash of people having NDs while dis-assembling their guns.

The facts here that you can not refute are that it is a non issue. As proven by the hundreds of agencies, governments and armies that use it. You can try and make it sound like an issue all you want, but it simply is not and never will be.

Shawn

 

[yohann160]

It almost seems they are trying to skew the buy towards Colt Canada.. ???

Yes because they have to feed Canada's Small Arms Center of Excellence (or whatever they call it). That's why the winning bidder's TDP was to be delivered to Colt Canada for production. The only Colt design that even remotely answers some requirements of the GSP specs is the Double Eagle.

 

[Rich LPS]

shawn,

agencies who issue the Glock have had AD's because of this feature. Pretend it's a non-issue. Some RFP's are writing it in for a reason.
I agree it's a training issue.

Rich

 

[Avenida]

that double eagle looks amazing.

 

[shortandlong]

Quoted for truth.

Most people are notoriously bad at shooting with pistols so they won't obtain minute of barn accuracy no matter what you hand them.

Oh really ? funny after 20 or so years using them , that never occurred to me

I wouldn't venture so far as to say weapons are dangerous, I'd definitely argue that weapons in the hands of dangerous/negligent people are though.

Really ? perhaps you should look up the definition of the word "Weapon"

as for the story ref the arrival of the 225. the Air force will tell you one thing, the Navy will tell you something else and the MPs will tell you something else. The real story is likely a combination of the three most popular story's

 

[enefgee]

that double eagle looks amazing.

Should be affordable too - seeing as how Colt couldn't give them away during the '90's, and just think about the increase in grip strength shown by those who have to use them, there's a plus right there (but it's only a plus until the DA trigger falls apart).

 

[shortandlong]

Should be affordable too - seeing as how Colt couldn't give them away during the '90's, and just think about the increase in grip strength shown by those who have to use them, there's a plus right there (but it's only a plus until the DA trigger falls apart).

lol sounds like the lsvw of pistols

 

[SLANTO]

Follow the Brit's lead and go Glock 17 Gen 4 with steel luminous sights. As for NDs two words Safety Precaution. Where I work we get 10 rnds every second year for HP famil. Most members are not proficient with the HP at all and a transition to a new pistol wouldn't really be that much of an undertaking. The avg pistol skill set is low and the true challenge is procurement and producing the CFTO PAMS. The mag safety is much more of safety issue than a trigger pull for disassembly.

 

[shortandlong]

we are Canadian ! we can't simply use something thats already proven!

 

[Expendable Nate]

The glock glock has the ergonomics of a damn brick and the sig has more trigger pull then my last sks and your right personal preference but I HATE them both

Got to ask why you hate Sig? I have a 226. Shoots accurately, very reliable, personal preference I know but I think it looks good but not great. If my life depended on it this is the gun I would prefer to have on me. Maybe they are not you preference but Hate doesn't seem rational to me. Personally don't like the looks of a Glock and the grip angle seems a bit odd but you can't fault their reliability. Note I also have 3 Rugers and an older Sauer so I am not a SIG nut. Would like a CZ but don't have the money right now. I just don't get the Hate any gun comments.

 

[Avenida]

oh the argument of the grip, the sights, the POI, the trigger, the safeties...so much to think about and at the end of the day most shooters suck regardless of the gun.

The not agreeing history of handguns, where is that thread where we were all agreeing to disagree? we need it now.

I think that, p226 has a TERRIBLE grip compared to a Glock gen4, I have owned the p226 and it was not comfortable for my hand, but that was me, I am sure other lads/ladys enjoy them. So for me the Glock works better, but then, I hate the way the Glock looks, and that stupid hump in the back, why? why not just making a grip like everybody else? please show me where it says it was ergonomically designed and I will buy 2 Glocks tomorrow, so then, I shoot HK. It has all I like!

Fanboyism by 10.000 please, thank you.

 

[shortandlong]

Well dude , the 1911 isn't a pistol for everyone either but it has done quite well .
I am getting a kick out of the mental masturbation thats occurring over a pistol thats going to have to be good for 60 000 people

 

[KevinB]

Well dude , the 1911 isn't a pistol for everyone either but it has done quite well .
I am getting a kick out of the mental masturbation thats occurring over a pistol thats going to have to be good for 60 000 people

It's not 60k though.

Outside of SOF, Pistol's generally get issued to Officers, SNCO's and various other folks by Line Serial (MG gunner etc).
Best case scenario for pistol issuance is 2/Section - maybe 4 if its a LAV section (Gunner and Driver), and 6 - 8 in Pl HQ (Pl Comd, PL WO, WPn Det Cdr, MG gunner, etc).
So maybe 25% of the Infantry at the ultimately largest case scenario.

So say 15,000 pistols maybe 20k pistol for some "war stock" allowances.

That's a Metro Police Department in a decent size city down here...

NO ONE is going to cut loose their TDP to the CF for that. Glock will sell well over 10 million pistols in the US this year, heck the G42 .380 is expected to sell 1 million...

Smith and Wesson IIRC sell about 1% of their pistols to the LE and Mil every year -


The CF is a minor gun buyer - and needs to understand this.

 

[Expendable Nate]

There's a lot more people then that who are issued pistols for the record thought your right not every buddy gets one but you number is a little low

It's not 60k though.

Outside of SOF, Pistol's generally get issued to Officers, SNCO's and various other folks by Line Serial (MG gunner etc).
Best case scenario for pistol issuance is 2/Section - maybe 4 if its a LAV section (Gunner and Driver), and 6 - 8 in Pl HQ (Pl Comd, PL WO, WPn Det Cdr, MG gunner, etc).
So maybe 25% of the Infantry at the ultimately largest case scenario.

So say 15,000 pistols maybe 20k pistol for some "war stock" allowances.

That's a Metro Police Department in a decent size city down here...

NO ONE is going to cut loose their TDP to the CF for that. Glock will sell well over 10 million pistols in the US this year, heck the G42 .380 is expected to sell 1 million...

Smith and Wesson IIRC sell about 1% of their pistols to the LE and Mil every year -


The CF is a minor gun buyer - and needs to understand this.

 

[KevinB]

There's a lot more people then that who are issued pistols for the record thought your right not every buddy gets one but you number is a little low

Not to be argumentative but Afghan was an anomaly.

CF has 68,000 all ranks strength, supposed to drop under 65,000.

Nearly half is in the Army - and Metro Toronto has more Police than the CF has Infantry (reg and res).

Even if the CF had a need for 65,000 pistols - that is like the number for LAPD and LASO...


Pistol PWT is what these day (IIRC it was 64rds) - so best case is folks outside of CANSOF will get 200rds a year.
Most decent pistols will go 20k without major part changes...

 

[Expendable Nate]

Why not have 60k of them and how can a conflict that lasted over a decade be a "abnormality"

 

[enefgee]

Why not have 60k of them and how can a conflict that lasted over a decade be a "abnormality"

WW1 - 5 years, Russian Civil War - 2 years, WW2 - 5 years, Korea - 3 years, The Cold War - no shooting, Cypress - 30 years, very rare shooting (peace keeping ops) Bosnia - 5 yrs sporadic, rare shooting (peace keeping ops). How is a ten year shooter NOT an abnormality? Incidentally, and showing my age here, does the CF still have everyone sit down and listen to the speech where the Senior Officer tells everyone that if 'the balloon goes up' he'll be very proud of the unit if it lasts 24 hours in the combat zone before it gets wiped out to a man - that was the Cold War, even for reservists. That was certainly sobering, even for those of us who grew up expecting to be bombed without warning.

 

[Expendable Nate]

^^ your right we have just been in a conflict that lasted twice as long as any other conflict. Ad that will probably never happen again......... Or maybe we should be prepared for a conflict like that again. Or maybe for one on a even grander scale. But we should probably wait until then to buy more pistols.