New Springfield Hellion

This thing was still ok in 2007/8 when everyone in the EU still thought G36 was the best thing sliced bread.

A rifle with such ridiculously high optic to bore height is difficult to use with IAD and in close quarter, all for that open air rotating ambi charging handle stolen from G36. We have all since moved on to a close top system like SCAR and HK 433 ( a G36 with a close top design) The X95, while not the most accurate, is more useable than this.

And are my eyes playing trick? That safety rotating switch is going in the opposite direction to the rest of the world.

Springfield should have changed all these things. This will flop in the US.
 
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greentips said:
This thing was still ok in 2007/8 when everyone in the EU still thought G36 was the best thing sliced bread.

A rifle with such ridiculously high optic to bore height is difficult to use with IAD and in close quarter, all for that open air rotating ambi charging handle stolen from G36. We have all since moved on to a close top system like SCAR and HK 433 ( a G36 with a close top design) The X95, while not the most accurate, is more useable than this.

And are my eyes playing trick? That safety rotating switch is going in the opposite direction to the rest of the world.

Springfield should have changed all these things. This will flop in the US.
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Has any bullpup really succeeded in the US? In the land of legal AR and AK, it’s a steep hill to climb.
 
IWI is doing fine with X95, the marketing works and the general right leaning gun owners attitude to Israel and the mystique around IMI/IWI help X95 a lot. Amongst the many bullpups, X95 does work other than the accuracy is not the best.

FS2000 is DOA. It was a mistake and FN figured that out eventually and cut loss.

AUG has been around for a long time. The main issue is Styer USA has not been very well in promoting and was very late in getting 922R compliant AUG into the US. European companies were also kinda tone death to the US market sometimes, they think they know better. They should have a STANAG version as standard, but they are stubborn like HK. Overall, AUG in a better weapon platform than X95 in my opinion ( more compact with way less empty plastic volume) other than that AUG couldn't be submerged. The new Aussie version looks like a better mouse trap.

Bullpup itself is not a problem. THe problem is that people who designed these bullpups 20 years ago in the not so cutting edge countries. They worked in their own little bubble and based their ideas on their own untested small unit TTP from 10 years before the time of design, so their products would have be cutting edge in the 90's, but not 2021.

The war in Afghan and iraq allowed many of these smaller not so active countries to work with the US, who are more cutting edge than anyone. Real operation experience and that opened their eyes on how bad some of their "committee design" in their close bubbles really sucked.

So you end up seeing the French buying HK416, and Belgian half way cut off FN2000 procurement and moved to SCAR16.

But the clock maybe turning back again, the new US NGWS optic incorporates LAD and many things in one device. If we drastically reduce the rail mounting space needed, bullpup will comeback.
 
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The Jard J180 made it onto the FRT as non-restricted post-OIC. The J180 was probably piggy-backing on the original 180B, but there's still a chance the Hellion might make it through the process.
 
Don’t get me wrong, I have a tricked out T-97 and I love the feel of a bullpup (as crap as this one may comparatively be), but I don’t see them as very popular even here where our options in any black rifle is so limited. In the US I wonder what percentage of the market the X95 is compared to the non bull pups. How many does it take to be considered a success.
 
.325WSM said:
Don’t get me wrong, I have a tricked out T-97 and I love the feel of a bullpup (as crap as this one may comparatively be), but I don’t see them as very popular even here where our options in any black rifle is so limited. In the US I wonder what percentage of the market the X95 is compared to the non bull pups. How many does it take to be considered a success.
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I think in the US the bullpup would fair better without the whitewash of influence of call of duty and such gamers, the gang of fast reload and infinite zombie wave!

The often noted critique of slower clumsier reload for 99.9997632 of the population is such a moot point wen you think about it! How many situations, part from competitions, where 30 round of 556 does not get the job done? What kind of deer are you hunting? If it's self defence, being bump in the night jump out the bed, kenosha hero or roof top Koreans; if you are down a full 30 and the issue is not fix you are going to have many more post-action issue!

For all the imaginary semi possible scenarios be it carry, vehicle born, concealment or urban. A 18.5-20" bullpup make much more sence then a restricted 10 inch long gun with mortar like shooting ark or a similar barrel length long arm with a overall length that is 10+ inch.

To me it's too bad nobody has really put together (and was available in Kanadakistan) a lego like bullpup with the reliability and customisabilaty of an AR. sure the desert tech is fairly customisable but its not like aftermarket is there. The tavor, rfb and rdb are nice but they are not adaptable at all.
 
Did someone say bullpup with reliability of an AR FOW? AUG is super reliable, in case anyone doesn't have any operational experience with one....I do.

Rich
 
Let’s hope these come in, however 18.5” barrel would be needed to compete with popularity I Canada (against the Norinco and IWI or even KELTeC Bullpups)

16” restricted firearm would make this limiting
 
I know that TACTICAL IMPORTS was looking to get the original Croatian VHS rifle to Canada , several years ago. It would be cool if they make it happen. Maybe it would be easier with this version by SA.

This rifle is on my WISHLIST

I’ve just messaged Tactical import about it, Hoping they’ll be able to get it!
 
I don't understand why all the pullpups build their gas systems up and not out? With cocking handles and pistons and all the gas handling being on top of the barrels we are forced to cope with exceedingly high focal planes for optics. Even though I was never a fan of the Mini-14, or M-14 either, the one thing I appreciated was the side mounted operating systems which left the upper part of the rifles clear for mounting of optics. With optics the higher you go the quicker you lose zero when straying from a set focal distance.
 
rally guy said:
It's funny that anyone actually think the RCMP will be deeming anything new coming to market semi auto as non restricted or even restricted .
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It's funny that you don't understand how the FRT system works. They will ban them with a blanket semi-auto OIC or the like. It's either NR, R or prohib based on established parameters otherwise.
 
B said:
It's funny that you don't understand how the FRT system works. They will ban them with a blanket semi-auto OIC or the like. It's either NR, R or prohib based on established parameters otherwise.
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Unless it's something they can call variant on. Then the established parameters are "beat your head against the wall until your vision bleeds, and if it still looks like an evil bad gun, then it is one."
 
handofzeus said:
I don't understand why all the pullpups build their gas systems up and not out? With cocking handles and pistons and all the gas handling being on top of the barrels we are forced to cope with exceedingly high focal planes for optics. Even though I was never a fan of the Mini-14, or M-14 either, the one thing I appreciated was the side mounted operating systems which left the upper part of the rifles clear for mounting of optics. With optics the higher you go the quicker you lose zero when straying from a set focal distance.
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Not sure what "up and not out" means. Putting the gas system on the bottom means that it needs to fight for space with the magazine and trigger group, and potentially blow crud into the trigger area and the spots where you might grab the gun. Putting it off to the side introduces asymmetry problems, and the top is entirely unobstructed, save for the height over bore issue, which isn't a huge issue, really. Not for the practical purpose of these rifles.
 
handofzeus said:
I don't understand why all the pullpups build their gas systems up and not out? With cocking handles and pistons and all the gas handling being on top of the barrels we are forced to cope with exceedingly high focal planes for optics. Even though I was never a fan of the Mini-14, or M-14 either, the one thing I appreciated was the side mounted operating systems which left the upper part of the rifles clear for mounting of optics. With optics the higher you go the quicker you lose zero when straying from a set focal distance.
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*Laughs in AUG*
 
.325WSM said:
Has any bullpup really succeeded in the US? In the land of legal AR and AK, it’s a steep hill to climb.
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I personally can't stand bullpups. Tried the tavor and hated the difference in running the gun. Not for me, I'll stick to conventional firearms, thanks.
 
infidel29 said:
I personally can't stand bullpups. Tried the tavor and hated the difference in running the gun. Not for me, I'll stick to conventional firearms, thanks.
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That's all well and good for you. As for me, I sold my AR15 because it sat untouched in my safe for an entire year after I bought my Tavor.

From what I can tell, the X95 has been very successful both here and in the US. They'll never sell nearly as well as an AR because of both patriotic (It's America's gun) and economic factors (patents have all expired, everyone and their mother builds them now, even Colt USA subcontracted out most of their parts). But for a foreign rifle design AND a bullpup? It's doing fantastic.

There's a lot of hype around the Hellion, it's a solid design, accurate, plus it looks awesome. I think it will do well, and I hope we get them here!
 
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