New to reloading - need to buy reloading die set

bigHUN

bigHUN

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So, I am new to this Win 308 f-class project, a friends friend assisted me buying it second hand also he promised he will do the reloading for me as well.
The idea was working well for short period of time, but as always with perfect plans a life is getting in a way, lately he offered to dress me up with reloading equipment he has a lot of extra's, so I can do by myself.

Can I consider myself still lucky? Arrived home today with a trunk load of leftovers from he's bunker - seem to me older but quality tools just collecting dust in the corners. Cleaned and sorted these...
I am only missing the reloading die set, I would buy a good quality, but have some reservations.

My life long background is from high precision fabrications and manufacturing... when I actually saw the friends reloading process (and precision with he's rusted fingers), I silently agree me just better DIY.
My goal is reloading for long range shots, f-class match. Single size, for myself only.

When I am taking my view to a level I will want to do concentricity tests on amo .......... all the anal precision starts from the reloading die set, if I am not mistaking?

Lee or Hornaby or RCBS or what anything else out there that no need immediate re-machining or at least more friendly with dimensions? (I don't have machines myself but I have access pretty much whenever I want)
 
many years ago a gentleman who was reloading for Palma matches settled on Forster Benchrest dies as he determined they resulted in .308w loads with the least amount of runout when compared to the other dies he tested. YMMV but Forster make nice dies.

Redding make nice dies as well … and some folks really like the Lee Collet dies … their attraction is because they do not employ an expander ball there is less likelihood of stretching a case or distorting the brass while the expander ball is drawn up through the neck.
 
Honestly lee hasn’t let me down. They aren’t as fancy as some others but for the price they work great. Maybe if you want to out 5 in the same hole at 300 you would want hornady or something but for anything else Lee seems to work fine
 
OP - you would have better luck in the reloading forum. You need to make a decision regarding which type of die methodology you want to use. Both will address the runout issue that standard FL dies are prone to.
- body die and collet neck sizer.
- mandrel die.
 
As I said I am new to a re-loading idea and wasn't sure where to post my question. I will try to copy this my OP question over there now.
 
Sorry guys if this appears to be a dual post, my initial OP I placed initially in a wrong section, copy it now again over here/
.................................................

So, I am new to this Win 308 f-class project, a friends friend assisted me buying it second hand also he promised he will do the reloading for me as well.
The idea was working well for short period of time, but as always with perfect plans a life is getting in a way, lately he offered to dress me up with reloading equipment he has a lot of extra's, so I can do by myself.

Can I consider myself still lucky? Arrived home today with a trunk load of leftovers from he's bunker - seem to me older but quality tools just collecting dust in the corners. Cleaned and sorted these...
I am only missing the reloading die set, I would buy a good quality, but have some reservations.

My life long background is from high precision fabrications and manufacturing... when I actually saw the friends reloading process (and precision with he's rusted fingers), I silently agree me just better DIY.
My goal is reloading for long range shots, f-class match. Single size, for myself only.

When I am taking my view to a level I will want to do concentricity tests on amo .......... all the anal precision starts from the reloading die set, if I am not mistaking?

Lee or Hornaby or RCBS or what anything else out there that no need immediate re-machining or at least more friendly with dimensions? (I don't have machines myself but I have access pretty much whenever I want. Also I like quality tools, and only these what I have around a house).
Any advise please?
 
Thanks guys. I don't expect I can find any of these from second hand for my low volume/year reloading....
Researching now some local suppliers in GTA (Toronto area) if any, hoping I can get an education at the counter (instead of utube).

"Dies: RCBS Match Master, Redding Premium or Competition or Forster Ultra die sets is what I'd recommend to start."
 
I have Redding, Widden, and RCBS dies as well as Lee, Hornady, CH, etc.
The only dies I would recommend for serious competing are Redding S dies and the Widden bushing dies.
The problem with non bushing style dies is that you cannot readily switch dies to match for bullet neck tension.
The Widden dies I use are full length dies and work well once they are set up. They also come with a head space gauge that attaches to your vernier to check how much the shoulder is bumped back.
The Redding dies are neck dies that come with a body due to bump the shoulder back there required amount.

Lee collet dies work, but they are neck dies that are not as precise and you need to bump the shoulder vack eventually, which can be done with a full length die with the expander ball removed.
Cat
 
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iron cat said:
... the Widden bushing dies...
Click to expand...
I can see the benefit in replaceable bushings. I think I have a "custom size" on brass neck .
I didn't measure it so far because the friend was reloading for me couple batches, but everything is going towards DIY so I will pay more attention to that detail. Going now to measure couple shells with micrometer.
My problem with numbers....a whole life I worked in millimeters (down to microns) and now suddenly I must convert ;/
 
I use Redding FL bushing dies on my F Class guns; though I sort of got to where It’s more about the comp seater than the sizing die. Thatt and quality brass.


Once you get up and running and measuring run-out, sort your ammo and shoot the best against the worst sometime. You might just might find that you need to find something else to obsess about. I recommend wind. :)
 
Arbour press and seating die is what I’ve seen Benchrest guys use. Wilson makes some and is what I may get down the road if I choose to get into that type of shooting.

I like the forester stuff myself for most of my FL sizing and have not played with bushing neck dies at this time. I have RCBS, and Forester dies. I had a Hornady set once upon a time but it never did manage to size that cartridge so it went back. I will try them again at some point in a different cartridge.

Also heard some amazing claims about the Lee collet die.

B
 
Dogleg said:
..You might just might find that you need to find something else to obsess about. I recommend wind. :)
Click to expand...
:) I know exactly what you told me here in a very polite way...
Most of my shooting probably 90% I am doing with my .22 and .25 PCP airguns at 100 meters BR rings, for training and practice probably the least cost effective. I would say in an average day this could be as challenging as your shooting at 1000 and over.
But also I would like to bring this 308 reloading mechanically to a best precision level, at least nothing else to blame ;)

Thanks guys for great help, this was very educational.
 
bigHUN said:
:) I know exactly what you told me here in a very polite way...
Most of my shooting probably 90% I am doing with my .22 and .25 PCP airguns at 100 meters BR rings, for training and practice probably the least cost effective. I would say in an average day this could be as challenging as your shooting at 1000 and over.
But also I would like to bring this 308 reloading mechanically to a best precision level, at least nothing else to blame ;)

Thanks guys for great help, this was very educational.
Click to expand...
First .. I am NOT an expert but have been around ranges all my life … l think the lessons you learn about wind and mirage (and many other lessons) at 100meters are extremely valuable; however among the challenges that shooters at longer ranges face include the occasional situation where the wind is moving in multiple directions at various distances….at the same time!!! sometimes the wind can even be moving ‘up’ :)
 
"BigHun wrote "When I am taking my view to a level I will want to do concentricity tests on amo .......... all the anal precision starts from the reloading die set, if I am not mistaking?"

Only a little bit.

The rifle needs to be built from the ground up, including truing the bolt/barrel/receiver to the axis of the bore as closely as possible for the ammunition to work.

If you're sure the complete rifle package is capable of the accuracy you desire, then comes the quality of the ammunition you assemble from "CONSISTENT" components.

All sorts of things can cause your ammunition to be inconsistent.

Powder, primers, bullets, cartridge cases from different lots are just a place to start.

One fellow I knew bought a "Juenke" gauge to electronically measure jacket thicknesses on every bullet he shot through his rifles.

Minute differences in thicknesses of jacket material, which would not be detectable in any other manner, can and do have influences on accuracy.

Most good bullet manufacturers today use similar or even the same equipment to measure the thickness of their jackets today.

However, they all have a plus or minus from median range, or they couldn't be profitable.

The fellow I mentioned set his own standards and usually bought enough bullets from a custom maker, to shoot his barrels to the point they were no longer predictably consistently accurate.

He usually purchased 3500-4500 bullets, depending on the barrel maker and cartridges they were chambered for. He seldom used 75% of those bullets for actual match shooting. The others he used to establish loads and foul the bores before a match.

He was one of the best shots I've seen. His attention to detail was anal to say the least but he was always in the winner's circle at important matches.

I read a story about a master gunsmith, Harry Pope, who had a fellow begging to become an apprentice for him, so he could learn Pope's secret for making extremely accurate match rifles.

The fellow was a skilled machinist at the time (black powder era) so Pope took him on.

Pope didn't treat the new apprentice as if he was an already accredited tradesman.

He started him at the bottom, polishing bores of new barrels to "Pope standards" which were very tight for the day.

Then progressed onto other tasks with the same quality parameters.

Remember, Pope was selling some of the best and most sought-after rifles of his time at prices which were beyond most.

Finally, after a couple of years, Pope allowed the young apprentice to take on one of the orders and build a complete rifle, from parts he had fabricated, lock, stock and barrel.

The young man completed the project and tested it for function/accuracy.

As the story goes, the rifle was about as perfect as possible for the day and Pope granted the apprentice full Trade Status in his shop.

When the young many went to Pope later and questioned the results of his build, without Pope's "SECRET" Pope declared "You learned the secret. It's all in the fine details of fit and finish, inside and out"
 
Last couple days I was making parts for the tester tool, put it together today.
Finished a concentricity test on this batch of amo a friend did last for me.
I am seeing a neck runout between 2 and 4 thousands, and the bullet runout mostly follows the neck fit but I catch a few that are not.
In my eyes the runout is a result of a tool the guy was using when reloading?
I will visit him tomorrow to see what brand/tool he was using ...
 
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