New Weatherby Cartridge!

todbartell said:
This new cartridge, and more specifically, it's loaded ammuntion - is laughable

140gr A-Frame @ 3395 fps drops 20" more @ 800 yards than the 142gr ABLR load in the 26 Nosler - even worse is the wind drift, 49" vs 28" for the 26N 142ABLR!!!. Bullet expansion with the A-Frame is unreliable below 2100 fps impact, which should be around 600 yards in the new Weatherby. On the other hand, 142gr ABLR will expand down to 1300 fps/1650 yards. And do we really expect a Swift A-Frame to provide sufficient accuracy in a Weatherby MarkV rifle to make hits at 600 yards? The 6.5-300 Wby w/ Wby ammo = LOL f:P:
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The simple fact is that many people that shoot the high capacity cartridges will never shoot past a few hundred yards, and as result, they don't have the skills required to shoot to 600 yards anyways. Some people will purchase rifles in the new chambering, just because it is a weatherby cartridges. Some people have large weatherby collections, and many of the larger calibers have only been fired a few times at the range, if they have been fired at all.
 
todbartell said:
This new cartridge, and more specifically, it's loaded ammuntion - is laughable

140gr A-Frame @ 3395 fps drops 20" more @ 800 yards than the 142gr ABLR load in the 26 Nosler - even worse is the wind drift, 49" vs 28" for the 26N 142ABLR!!!. Bullet expansion with the A-Frame is unreliable below 2100 fps impact, which should be around 600 yards in the new Weatherby. On the other hand, 142gr ABLR will expand down to 1300 fps/1650 yards. And do we really expect a Swift A-Frame to provide sufficient accuracy in a Weatherby MarkV rifle to make hits at 600 yards? The 6.5-300 Wby w/ Wby ammo = LOL f:P:
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If you want flat trajectory and and long range reduced velocity terminal performance, the 140 gr Hunting VLD from Berger will embarrass the ABLR, but one could hardly expect Nosler to load Berger bullets in flagship cartridge. But its the bullet that matters not the cartridge which drives it. Either the Nosler or the Weatherby or the STW will make that bullet perform well beyond a half mile, never mind 600 yards. If you are already invested in the .26 Nosler, a newer, better, or just different cartridge doesn't detract from what you have. These are all cartridges which are properly owned by enthusiasts, and enthusiasts handload. The best long range shot seldom has the largest cartridge, the highest muzzle velocity, or even the most accurate rifle, but his outfit is competitive. As you've pointed out, a Swift A-Frame isn't designed to be a 600 yard killer, but it will do just fine within a quarter mile, where the vast majority of NA game is killed anyway, and where you couldn't pay me to use one of the Berger varmint bullets that's dressed up like a hunting bullet.
 
todbartell said:
This new cartridge, and more specifically, it's loaded ammuntion - is laughable

140gr A-Frame @ 3395 fps drops 20" more @ 800 yards than the 142gr ABLR load in the 26 Nosler - even worse is the wind drift, 49" vs 28" for the 26N 142ABLR!!!. Bullet expansion with the A-Frame is unreliable below 2100 fps impact, which should be around 600 yards in the new Weatherby. On the other hand, 142gr ABLR will expand down to 1300 fps/1650 yards. And do we really expect a Swift A-Frame to provide sufficient accuracy in a Weatherby MarkV rifle to make hits at 600 yards? The 6.5-300 Wby w/ Wby ammo = LOL f:P:
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Why not compare them with the same projectiles? What you did was that A-Frame is inferior to ABLR, not the cartridges.
 
todbartell said:
This new cartridge, and more specifically, it's loaded ammuntion - is laughable

140gr A-Frame @ 3395 fps drops 20" more @ 800 yards than the 142gr ABLR load in the 26 Nosler - even worse is the wind drift, 49" vs 28" for the 26N 142ABLR!!!. Bullet expansion with the A-Frame is unreliable below 2100 fps impact, which should be around 600 yards in the new Weatherby. On the other hand, 142gr ABLR will expand down to 1300 fps/1650 yards. And do we really expect a Swift A-Frame to provide sufficient accuracy in a Weatherby MarkV rifle to make hits at 600 yards? The 6.5-300 Wby w/ Wby ammo = LOL f:P:
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Do you suppose that the 1650 yard factory load market isn't what they were going for?:p
 
todbartell said:
don't see that happening due to the lower BC of the Berger
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Nosler lies, their BC is based on a G-1 not a G-7, and besides, there is no way and tangent will shoot flatter than a secant of similar caliber and weight. That's not to say that the Nosler isn't a better game bullet, but its not as slippery.
 
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Boomer said:
Nosler lies, their BC is based on a G-1 not a G-7, and besides, there is no way and tangent will shoot flatter than a secant of similar caliber and weight. That's not to say that the Nosler isn't a better game bullet, but its not as slippery.
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I thought the LRAB also had a secant ogive? Regardless it can be tough to trust manufacturer BC #s. Especially when they don't publish both G1 and G7.
 
Is WBY also loading Berger bullets in their 6.5 ammo?

Handloaders can load anything, of course but it would be weird to cripple your new long range cartridge with only bullets not suited to actual long range shooting.
 
Gatehouse said:
Is WBY also loading Berger bullets in their 6.5 ammo?

Handloaders can load anything, of course but it would be weird to cripple your new long range cartridge with only bullets not suited to actual long range shooting.
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Maybe Weatherby is smarter than some and loads bullets suitable for all ranges. After all, long range calibers work well at short range as well, where Berger's suck.
 
Gatehouse said:
i guess so. Probably most purchasers of this cartridge will shoot deer at 150 yards, like most, anyway. :)
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Perhaps but this long range game shooting business seems to be with us now, and its unlikely to disappear any time soon. Since today's version of a hunter wants to be able to reach out beyond half a mile without getting his shoulder bumped in the process, uber velocity 6.5s seem to be a good choice. Again, these cartridges are best left to the enthusiasts, and an enthusiast rifleman is a handloader.
 
woodlotowner said:
So...how much better/faster/more energetic than my 6.5 Rem Mag will it be?
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Kind of a moot point is it not?
I mean when you do your job the 6.5 Rem.Mag is going to do it's job will it not?
Some people need to measure their ##### by the speed of the bullet.
And I am not suggesting you fall into this category woodlotowner.
To many spend much time talking up the latest and greatest wizbang cartridge than they do enjoying the great outdoors.
There is a thread about a free hand challenge with a posted 4 inch target and several shots and of course it is on the honor system too.
It didnt take long for a few to suggest more rules when the intent (imo) was to get out shoot some lead and enjoy a bit of fun competition.
Shootem if you gottem and have fun.
As for the 6.5x300 Wby Mag there will be those who just have to have it and it will be the be all end all and nothing will sway them from that statement.
Tight Groups,
Rob
 
This new cartridge will gain little from the 264 win mag, and be similar to the 26 nosler. Specialized chambering that can only punch out the big numbers with a very limited number of powders. The 26 nosler really only puts out the big speeds with us869, with other powders the gains over the 264 are much less. This will be the same. So if us869 or possibly rl33 doesnt perform in your rifle you are s.o.l and will have a very expensive to shoot 264.
 
LongBomber said:
This new cartridge will gain little from the 264 win mag, and be similar to the 26 nosler. Specialized chambering that can only punch out the big numbers with a very limited number of powders. The 26 nosler really only puts out the big speeds with us869, with other powders the gains over the 264 are much less. This will be the same. So if us869 or possibly rl33 doesnt perform in your rifle you are s.o.l and will have a very expensive to shoot 264.
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Funny. Of the 3 calibers you mentioned, the cheapest brass made by Nosler in those 3 calibers is .300 WBY MAG.
 
Boomer said:
Perhaps but this long range game shooting business seems to be with us now, and its unlikely to disappear any time soon. Since today's version of a hunter wants to be able to reach out beyond half a mile without getting his shoulder bumped in the process, uber velocity 6.5s seem to be a good choice. Again, these cartridges are best left to the enthusiasts, and an enthusiast rifleman is a handloader.
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Yes and these enthusiast handloaders will likely ignore the WBY for the Nosler

If you are an enthusiast that handloads and wants a fast 6.5 you will likely not be impressed by a superfluous belt and funny shoulder.
 
LongBomber said:
This new cartridge will gain little from the 264 win mag, and be similar to the 26 nosler. Specialized chambering that can only punch out the big numbers with a very limited number of powders. The 26 nosler really only puts out the big speeds with us869, with other powders the gains over the 264 are much less. This will be the same. So if us869 or possibly rl33 doesnt perform in your rifle you are s.o.l and will have a very expensive to shoot 264.
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X2. With more capacity over a cartridge that already has a low expansion ratio (what some people call "overbore"), the real MV gains are with powders that were slightly too slow for the smaller cartridge, i.e. even a compressed charge was below max pressure. In the case of the 6.5-300 Wby (6.5 STW), those powders are at the slowest end of the relative burn rates, but they need to be dense enough to fit enough into the cartridge. The best illustration of this is probably H50BMG and US869. I have found them to be very close in burn rate (US869 being only very slightly slower), but US869 is more dense, hence you can fit about 6% more powder into the case. To me, the optimum powder does not exist - it would have been like the old H870 - almost as dense as US869, but a bit faster. Re33 might be just the ticket, depending on how dense it is. I've tried Re50 and it's about as fast as H870, but it's bulky.

I did this chart up a few years ago when I was still working on "vanity" wildcats. The 8mm ARP is based on a 338 RUM case, and the 6.5 ARP is essentially a 6.5-300 Win Mag (just a bit smaller than the 26 Nosler). The 6.5-300 Wby would be either just before or just after the 7mm RUM on this chart. The 6.5X55 would be off the chart at the left at about 7.5. Comparing the expansions ratios of the three 6.5's - the 6.5X55, 264 Win Mag and 6.5 ARP, reflects the diminishing returns you get as you add case capacity. To those who then pronounce anything larger than the 6.5X55 "inefficient", you are correct relatively speaking, but how else can you get a 140 gr bullet to go (much) faster than 3000 fps at sane pressures? If you don't want those high MV's, stick with the smaller cartridge.

Expansion_Ratios_zpsaxhrj5l1.jpg
 
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