Okay, so about 4 years ago I bought a bunch of basic reloading tools, I believe I got the rock chucker starter kit from cabelas. Or something like that. Anyways it's a simple one stage press. I reloaded a handful of 303 using imr 4895 and then moved, and it's all sat in my locker until last week. With the state of politics I've decided it's best I start becoming self reliant more. Bad timing I guess because it looks like unless I want to pay 500 dollars for a brick of LRP that I won't be reloading anymore 308. Have about 130 magnum LRP for 303 and then that'll be it until I can get more at a rate that won't bankrupt me. But what I am most interested in is 223 anyways. My plan is to reload and stock up on as much 223 as I can. Right now I have a pound of IMR 3031 and a pound of IMR 8208xbr that I'm hoping to use. I've looked it up and both of these seem to be hard to come by. Should I be looking into a different more readily available powder after I use these 2lbs? Is there a cheaper powder that'll work better for making bulk amounts of 223 for a WK like platform? Right now components seem to be at an all time premium, so probably a horrible time to dip my toes in, but I figure it's still gotta be slightly cheaper then the factory ammo that's sky rocketed. I found CCI SRP in stock for 115 a brick so I hope to grab a brick to supplement the 300 srp I currently have later this week. Have 7p0 pieces of 223 brass on the way to. Really looking forward to getting into this.
Newbie Questions
- Thread starter Kier
- Start date
- Location
- Western Manitoba
Not going to be much help about powders to get - I have no idea what might be available where you are. My own experience is that there is considerable variation in results from what bullets that you use - and that was across multiple cartridges - price of the bullet does not seem to matter - to an extent - I have got really lousy groups with expensive bullets and also very good groups - and same thing with "cheap" bullets - kind of depends on what you are trying to accomplish - what your rifle, your scope and you are capable of? Are 2" 5 shot groups at 100 yards "good enough", or do you need 3/4" groups?
But reloading .223 Rem - I do that on my RCBS Rock Chucker single stage press. Be prepared that much "cheap" .223 Rem brass is actually surplus military 5.56 NATO - so the primers are "crimped" in - needs that extra initial step to swage or other wise deal with that crimp - to be able to seat a new primer. I am fussy old fart - so I pop out fired primers in a Universal de-priming die or with a Lee de-capping rod from elderly Lee Loader kit - then stainless pin tumble to clean brass - inside, outside and primer pockets, dry the cases - deal with primer crimp if there is one, then lube and re-size - then measure or trim to length each case - then chamfer case mouth and clean off lube from exterior of the case, then seat fresh primer. I usually do a batch of 100 or 200 cases at a time - as described above - usually an evening at my press - but time "lost" for tumbling and drying the cases. I have 3 x 60 round case holder trays and one 50 round tray - so I could set out for 230 rounds at a time, if I had to. I dispense powder and seat bullets in a separate session - usually another day. For years, I used an Ideal balance beam scale and trickler for dispensing powder - now mostly I use an RCBS ChargeMaster Lite - although the beam scale and trickler are still set up on shelf in front of me. I can no longer maintain "focus" or "concentration" on reloading for more than a couple hours at a time - so I prefer to not "push it" any more.
As I understand it, is others that do not do near that fussing - use a Progressive Press (I think) - get a finished round ever pull of handle - but primer pockets never cleaned, cases never checked for length, trimmed or chamfered, powder never weighed - just after the "fastest" way to get a bunch done that will go "bang" - again, might be perfectly adequate for their needs.
But reloading .223 Rem - I do that on my RCBS Rock Chucker single stage press. Be prepared that much "cheap" .223 Rem brass is actually surplus military 5.56 NATO - so the primers are "crimped" in - needs that extra initial step to swage or other wise deal with that crimp - to be able to seat a new primer. I am fussy old fart - so I pop out fired primers in a Universal de-priming die or with a Lee de-capping rod from elderly Lee Loader kit - then stainless pin tumble to clean brass - inside, outside and primer pockets, dry the cases - deal with primer crimp if there is one, then lube and re-size - then measure or trim to length each case - then chamfer case mouth and clean off lube from exterior of the case, then seat fresh primer. I usually do a batch of 100 or 200 cases at a time - as described above - usually an evening at my press - but time "lost" for tumbling and drying the cases. I have 3 x 60 round case holder trays and one 50 round tray - so I could set out for 230 rounds at a time, if I had to. I dispense powder and seat bullets in a separate session - usually another day. For years, I used an Ideal balance beam scale and trickler for dispensing powder - now mostly I use an RCBS ChargeMaster Lite - although the beam scale and trickler are still set up on shelf in front of me. I can no longer maintain "focus" or "concentration" on reloading for more than a couple hours at a time - so I prefer to not "push it" any more.
As I understand it, is others that do not do near that fussing - use a Progressive Press (I think) - get a finished round ever pull of handle - but primer pockets never cleaned, cases never checked for length, trimmed or chamfered, powder never weighed - just after the "fastest" way to get a bunch done that will go "bang" - again, might be perfectly adequate for their needs.
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"use a Progressive Press (I think) - get a finished round ever pull of handle - but primer pockets never cleaned, cases never checked for length, trimmed or chamfered, powder never weighed"
You do the majority of that before you start loading on your progressive. - dan
You do the majority of that before you start loading on your progressive. - dan
- Location
- Western Manitoba
I did not know that, Dan - I have never re-loaded with a "progressive press" - maybe did 100 rounds of 28 gauge shotgun, but that is closest that I got to a "progressive" that I know of. I was just going off of various ads showing people using bullet and case feeders - getting a loaded round each pull - I never realized stuff was done to the cases ahead of that.
Buy powder and primers. Whatever you can get. This is not the time to be choosy about your components.
223 cases and projectiles are easy to source.
Just because someone sizes, primes and loads rounds on a progressive doesn't mean cases are not processed prior to hitting the progressive.
Case length is nowhere near as important as you think it is. There is a ton of extra length in most chambers. I basically don't trim 223 brass because I'm more likely to lose it in the grass after a few firings and a few firings won't result in excessive case length.
I used to deprime on a Rockchucker but have recently upgraded to a Lee APP with a home-brew case feeder. It is 50x faster than single stage depriming. The APP can also do primer pocket swaging at the same speed, which really takes the drudgery out of case prep.
No issues, all part of the process. - dan
- Location
- Western Manitoba
I would agree with the ball powder thing - back in the day, I used W748 and W760 - was thrown with a RCBS Uniflow measure - was a used machine when I got it - I started by weighing each throw - then every third one, then every 10th one - once I standardized when I "tapped" the thrower handle, I don't think I ever got even 0.1 grain variance to show on my beam scale - I was more than happy with that!! It was pretty "crunchy" with IMR 4064, so that powder got trickled up to desired weight, but the Winchester powders were very slick to use - when I could find them, back then!!
LOL, you sure you are ready to get into reloading?
There are three basic forms of smokeless powder. Ball, flake and stick (extruded).
I don't have a physical manual, when I reloaded the 303 I had found some sort of manual stating a starting load for 124 gr bullets using imr4895 (think it was around 47 grains I was loading) and I had worked it up from there. I do think a physical manual would be best, any suggestions?
PM sent.
Gun Digest made some online videos that are worth seeing.
episode-01-basics-reloading
episode-2-tools
episode-3-case-resizing
episode-4-primers
episode 5 Powders
episode-6-bullets
episode 7 specialty brass
episode-8-troubleshooting
episode 9 Primer Assembly
hepisode 10 cartridge assembly
hHickok45 Reloading Basics
- Location
- Western Manitoba
Many that I have met who have not read a reloading manual think it is a book full of reloading recipes. Some are - like pamphlets - using just one brand of powder or one brand of bullets. Some that were sold are repeats or re-prints of some other company's previously pressure tested recipes. Many will have 25% to 50% of the book with articles and chapters about how to do reloading, using various brands of tooling, about internal and external ballistics, and so on. Many have gone through multiple editions over the years - I notice most of them have a statement that they dis-avow anything written in their previous editions. Sometimes bullets, powders or cartridges are added in newer editions, sometimes some get dropped. I have many older ones - out-of date, I guess - but with data for older cartridges that I have like 7x61 Sharpe and Hart or 308 Norma Mag - many times cartridges like that are no longer listed in the "newest" manuals.
And some of us have found typo's or errors in both the printed version and the on-line version - so I no longer rely on just one source to suggest my next loading - I much prefer to cross check with various sources - none tend to be exactly the same to each other - is part of this game to understand why that happens - and should maybe suggest why your rifle might not be identical to the one they did their testing with - getting different results. And then I typically "work up" my loadings with new-to-me components in small increments - I no longer enjoy "surprises". With very few exceptions - like one or two - I do not use other people's hand loads or recipes - certainly none of them without each component identified - I prefer to do my own "work up" in my own gear - and no one had my rifle to come up with loadings in the past.
I suppose the first "manual" that I used was the card that came in the Lee Loader reloading kit that I started with - late 1970's. Pretty much monthly, since then, I would get various magazines like Guns & Ammo, Shooting Times, Handloader, Rifle and so on. I also have several books by writers like John Barsness - often those "books" are collections of articles that they previously had published in various magazines - what they do for a living, I think. I do recall loading from Nosler No. 1 Manual and Sierra No. 1 manual - when they were "new". On my desk right now - that I refer to some most weeks - Sierra Edition V, Lyman 50th, Western Powders Edition 5.0, Hodgdon's 2013 Annual Manual, Woodleigh Loading Manual, Hornady 9th, Speer #14, Nosler #9, Modern Reloading Second Edition by Richard Lee, VihtaVuori Oy 4th Edition, Winchester Powder Loading Data 2nd Edition. Some were free - at retailers or from on-line downloads. Many are "out of date" - is newer editions available. Most all reloading tools that I have bought had manufacturer instructions how to set up and to use their devices - not all the same, for sure - and is many "kinks" and alternate uses that have been published by others - to use those devices in ways the maker had not identified.
Several of the manuals will tell you how to do stuff - get a result - that someone else will sell you a device or devices of their manufacture, to buy from them, to accomplish the same thing. Finding the lands in your rifle and establishing a Cartridge Over All Length is an example - Woodleigh Manual tells you how to do that using your cleaning rod and a dowel - I have read the similar process in other sources - or some companies will sell you some tooling to get the same result. Up to the re-loader, I guess - some prefer to read and learn and maybe "make do"; some prefer to spend money and accumulate "stuff".
I can not say there is one "best" manual to get - each seems to add a bit more to the learning. Typically the Lyman, Nosler and Sierra Manuals have a lot of "good stuff" in them, besides loading recipes. So does Woodleigh, Hornady and Speer - and so on. Sometimes it is "comforting" to read similar stuff in multiple sources, sometimes one source will wander into areas the others do not - Richard Lee's discussion and ideas about lead cast bullet hardness versus breech pressure, for example - not seeing that repeated in many other sources.
And some of us have found typo's or errors in both the printed version and the on-line version - so I no longer rely on just one source to suggest my next loading - I much prefer to cross check with various sources - none tend to be exactly the same to each other - is part of this game to understand why that happens - and should maybe suggest why your rifle might not be identical to the one they did their testing with - getting different results. And then I typically "work up" my loadings with new-to-me components in small increments - I no longer enjoy "surprises". With very few exceptions - like one or two - I do not use other people's hand loads or recipes - certainly none of them without each component identified - I prefer to do my own "work up" in my own gear - and no one had my rifle to come up with loadings in the past.
I suppose the first "manual" that I used was the card that came in the Lee Loader reloading kit that I started with - late 1970's. Pretty much monthly, since then, I would get various magazines like Guns & Ammo, Shooting Times, Handloader, Rifle and so on. I also have several books by writers like John Barsness - often those "books" are collections of articles that they previously had published in various magazines - what they do for a living, I think. I do recall loading from Nosler No. 1 Manual and Sierra No. 1 manual - when they were "new". On my desk right now - that I refer to some most weeks - Sierra Edition V, Lyman 50th, Western Powders Edition 5.0, Hodgdon's 2013 Annual Manual, Woodleigh Loading Manual, Hornady 9th, Speer #14, Nosler #9, Modern Reloading Second Edition by Richard Lee, VihtaVuori Oy 4th Edition, Winchester Powder Loading Data 2nd Edition. Some were free - at retailers or from on-line downloads. Many are "out of date" - is newer editions available. Most all reloading tools that I have bought had manufacturer instructions how to set up and to use their devices - not all the same, for sure - and is many "kinks" and alternate uses that have been published by others - to use those devices in ways the maker had not identified.
Several of the manuals will tell you how to do stuff - get a result - that someone else will sell you a device or devices of their manufacture, to buy from them, to accomplish the same thing. Finding the lands in your rifle and establishing a Cartridge Over All Length is an example - Woodleigh Manual tells you how to do that using your cleaning rod and a dowel - I have read the similar process in other sources - or some companies will sell you some tooling to get the same result. Up to the re-loader, I guess - some prefer to read and learn and maybe "make do"; some prefer to spend money and accumulate "stuff".
I can not say there is one "best" manual to get - each seems to add a bit more to the learning. Typically the Lyman, Nosler and Sierra Manuals have a lot of "good stuff" in them, besides loading recipes. So does Woodleigh, Hornady and Speer - and so on. Sometimes it is "comforting" to read similar stuff in multiple sources, sometimes one source will wander into areas the others do not - Richard Lee's discussion and ideas about lead cast bullet hardness versus breech pressure, for example - not seeing that repeated in many other sources.
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