Nightforce vs Schmidt and Bender vs Vortex vs US Optics
- Thread starter bacardi
- Start date
If your going to compare NF and S&B for a long range optic you need to be comparing the PMII's and the ATACR. Myself I'm partial to the PMII, yes the glass is a little better (not much thou, the ATACR is very impressive!) but for long range shooting glass gets to a point where it is good enough for the intended purpose and the ATACR is defiantly that. Where I think the PMII really shines is the controls. The DT turrets are very user friendly(MT stands for Multi turn, you want the DT trust me). The parallax is easy to dial in. Illumination is easy to use, etc.
As of the time I'm writing this NF is WAY behind with the MIL based reticles. While I think there MOAR is great if your a MOA guy the MIL-R is not so great in my opinion.
As for S&B reticles I used to really like(and still do) the P4F but after using a reticle with 0.2mil wind holds I really think its the way to go. I'm about to receive my first optic with the H2CMR so we will see how that goes.
MTC- In the past the MTC feature was garbage. However S&B has revised the specs with a less aggressive detent on the X.0mil clicks and its not as bad now. I would still opt out if given the option but I no longer see it as a big negative.
Razor Gen 2 - I will admit in the past I wasn't a big fan of Vortex at all, had a bunch of PST's(still have one) and have seen and heard of a bunch of them failing (3 myself). That said after spending some time behind the lasted Gen2's I'm very impressed. Vortex got it together with these now. I personally wouldn't buy one however (the higher mag models, I own a 1-6 Razor) because there almost at the S&B price point. However I don't feel like it would be a bad choice if someone where to go that route. There heavy also, should be considered if weight matters for your application.
As of the time I'm writing this NF is WAY behind with the MIL based reticles. While I think there MOAR is great if your a MOA guy the MIL-R is not so great in my opinion.
As for S&B reticles I used to really like(and still do) the P4F but after using a reticle with 0.2mil wind holds I really think its the way to go. I'm about to receive my first optic with the H2CMR so we will see how that goes.
MTC- In the past the MTC feature was garbage. However S&B has revised the specs with a less aggressive detent on the X.0mil clicks and its not as bad now. I would still opt out if given the option but I no longer see it as a big negative.
Razor Gen 2 - I will admit in the past I wasn't a big fan of Vortex at all, had a bunch of PST's(still have one) and have seen and heard of a bunch of them failing (3 myself). That said after spending some time behind the lasted Gen2's I'm very impressed. Vortex got it together with these now. I personally wouldn't buy one however (the higher mag models, I own a 1-6 Razor) because there almost at the S&B price point. However I don't feel like it would be a bad choice if someone where to go that route. There heavy also, should be considered if weight matters for your application.
That is the one weak point of the NF, the reticle selection is poor. My partner has a couple BEASTs and the Mil-R makes my eyes bug out everytime I try to use it for leads, hold-overs, etc... The MLR2.0 was fine. Too bad they discontinued it.
Although Nightforce says Japan on the bottom of the scope, it is the glass from Japan, and the scope is assembled in the USA. Japanese glass (which is top of the line), can be second to none and the kind Nightforce gets for there scopes is always top end. Especially comparing scopes like the BEAST and ATACR to S&B P/MII,Vortex Razor Gen II, and Tangent Theta... i feel its just becomes personal preference at that level. Lol iv been debating for months what scope to get to put on my new rifle and i finally settled on the ATACR and I'm very pleased
I own over half a dozen of S&B scopes that fit all my needs, i was shopping for another scope, i was looking at TT and NF but decided to stay with another S&B, those been stellar for me over the years, never had the smallest problem...
Why change something that is all ready at the top, that is the question... JP.
Why change something that is all ready at the top, that is the question... JP.
I went with a TT, mostly cause I got a good deal and I have full FOV throughout the magnification range. Unlike the PMII with tunneling between 5-7x. Glass almost the same, bright white TT vs white sb. It seems like the PMII gives a warmer colour vs the tt's bright white. Onto turrets, TT wins big time,they are awesome and the tool-less zero is an awesome feature. Especially on a switch calibre rifle, which I'm running the TT on. Then lifetime warranty on Canadian made, vs 10 years made in Germany.
Annnndd that is why?
I think all the scopes mentioned are good. The PM2 set the standards, but these days new scopes seem to have caught, and exceeded them. Still a good option, but what used to be a default PM2, is now more of a price comparison of options/glass quality and reticles.
PM2/ATACR F1/TT/Razor/etc.
I'm sure I'd like all options pretty much equally, but I have a couple Razors and can't think of anything I want more. The Gen 2 ticks every single box of my needs AND wants. The Gen 1 has a few wants (reticle - option from factory I don't have, and field of view), then Gen 2 firmly covered these and went well above. Can't really knock the reticle as I have the model without the reticle I really wanted - EBR2C or whatever it's called, which is very similar to what I have in the Gen 2.
Agreed. The Tangent Theta turrets are simply the best. Glass is on par with the Hubble and has a perfect edge-to-edge picture with minimal edge ring. No tunnelling. Sledgehammer strong. Premier lineage. Lifetime warranty. Made in Canada.
While they do have issues with quality on their lower end scopes (as many manufactures do), I for one enjoy knowing that if I drop my gun, it gets backed over, falls off a truck, whatever, I can get a new one at very little cost to me. (~70$ shipping). It's the age old perception of quality. When you have high end product, making low end components always taints the image of the brand.
Do you want a $4000 scope that you drop one day, crack the glass or even bend the bell housing and end up with a paperweight or damaged goods? On high end scopes, warranty is a very, very good thing.
Another thing, there is a recent post about NF scope reticle change requiring an importer to send their scope back to NF for a 250-300$ reticle change. Vortex quoted me $150 for one of my Razors. No extra costs.
It's like owning a brand new Lexus and saying I don't need warranty, Toyota makes good vehicles.
Well in my experience, Lexus's don't need warranty, at least my is300 has never required repairs in 11 years and 113k miles(not km). Just wear on brakes and oil, and general maintenance.
Obviously it's out of warranty now, but still dead reliable. I'll stick to my lexus rather than Hyundai. Which is what SB vs Vortex basically is.
Obviously it's out of warranty now, but still dead reliable. I'll stick to my lexus rather than Hyundai. Which is what SB vs Vortex basically is.
Pretty much this. My TT525P is incredible and those turrets are the best on Earth. When folks are checking it out I get them to spin the turret, it always draws a smile!
- Location
- Richmond, BC
NECRO THREAD! From 7AUG15, lol!
OP mentioned hoping to stay below $3k....were Schmidts sub $3k last August?
- Location
- Richmond, BC
How long is the warrantee on S&B? Damn, I never really looked into it before ordering.
Yeah, I heard Vortex has some pretty sick warrantees. Steiner ain't bad either, generational lifetime warrantee, which means as long as Steiner is still around, your grandkids will be covered.
Yeah, I heard Vortex has some pretty sick warrantees. Steiner ain't bad either, generational lifetime warrantee, which means as long as Steiner is still around, your grandkids will be covered.
- Location
- Jameson, SK
I'd say that "high-end" military use is a factor.....meaning the guys that have the clout to choose their own gear. I could care less what the administrators and politicians think should be forced upon the regulars..... TT, S&B, USO, NF etc doesn't have to take anyone golfing to get a contract.
-J.
