So if two shooters are using the "same" barrel, whether they both have eg. the factory barrel on a Ruger Precision Rimfire or they're both using IBI barrels or anything else, and one of them reports great results with X ammo that just don't happen for the other shooter, it's more likely to come down to them simply having different lots of X?
No rifle can outshoot the ammo - what does it take to do okay at 100
- Thread starter grauhanen
- Start date
IIRC, Jim Carmichael tested two Remington 700's that were consecutive productions in 280 Remington.
What one liked in Factory ammo the other didn't and visa-versa.
What performed in one with handloads did not in the other.
Yesterday, trying to find the magic in my 10/22 resulted in a 98/100 with the first group of the day and later the same lot resembled a pattern versus a group with a couple of rounds falling outside the scoring rings on consecutive 10-shot groups. Sometimes what we do borders on the definition of "Insanity"!
What one liked in Factory ammo the other didn't and visa-versa.
What performed in one with handloads did not in the other.
Yesterday, trying to find the magic in my 10/22 resulted in a 98/100 with the first group of the day and later the same lot resembled a pattern versus a group with a couple of rounds falling outside the scoring rings on consecutive 10-shot groups. Sometimes what we do borders on the definition of "Insanity"!
So then barrels off the same line do differ? But then it's a lot easier to pick up a different box of ammo than to change the particular barrel you ended up with. But does explain why people with the same gear can't directly share guidance.
The "insanity" to me is that there aren't any signposts on the field guiding a search for better-performing ammo; it's just randomly-try-them-all!
(And then business considerations leading to the top in-crowd competitive shooters getting first dibs on a new lot, while the rest of us get tails of lots or declined lots. Would make sense for any patriotic manufacturer to make sure their national team got the best, and foreigners didn't!)
The "insanity" to me is that there aren't any signposts on the field guiding a search for better-performing ammo; it's just randomly-try-them-all!
(And then business considerations leading to the top in-crowd competitive shooters getting first dibs on a new lot, while the rest of us get tails of lots or declined lots. Would make sense for any patriotic manufacturer to make sure their national team got the best, and foreigners didn't!)
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Depends on what your end use goals are. For instance, we shoot ALOT of LR rimfire PRS. Accuracy goals are easier vs a benchrest shooter BUT we demand consistency. If you look into this game, MANY shooters will run Lapua CenterX in competition. If you have a barrel set up for this ammo AND you find a good lot (and they will vary), you have all the performance you are able to deliver given the game.
Note a 'bad lot' can still be perfectly useable and a tuner can make it even better. I currently have 3 lots - 1 favors my 10/22, another my bolt, the third I am just starting to test and likely will work in either rifle. I practise with sorted SK RM to lower cost and it shoots right on the heels with the favored lots of CX until you get a flyer.... and why I don't compete with SK RM.
Others will prefer a similar grade of Eley or whatever... but you get the point. You CAN get a set up that will clean the course of fire, even if you can't.
So the needs of the game allow alot of readily available gear to be podium competitive. That is why the game is growing very strongly across NA.
If you want sanity with rimfire, play a game where the 'outs' can still put you on target if you do your part.
The Short range version is even more tolerant and some compete with bulk HV ammo and have a fantastic time.
I accept what rimfire can and cannot be for my needs.... and it is an absolute blast.
Jerry
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
not really as the ammo manf has no idea what tune is desired by every rifle out there. They make it within a spec... shooters test to find where in this range their gear favors... buy lots and enjoy.
Over the last few years, I have the luxury of seeing alot of ammo go by, so I get a chance to play with types and lots. In general, if a set up prefers 1 type of ammo, the lots can make it slightly better or slightly worst (PRS remember) but in general, it is workable.
I have tried the highest grades of Lapua match ammo and in my rifles, they sucked... and I mean badly. fiddle fussing around, could I figure out how to make it work?... probably but will it change my score? NOPE... just empty my wallet that much faster.
Rimfire is a riddle we aren't likely to resolve so consider uses where the performance of what you can buy fits into what you need to succeed at the task.
Jerry
How does a shooter "set up" a barrel for a particular ammo? It's possible to rechamber a barrel to have a shallower leade angle such as 1.5 degrees for Lapua or RWS ammo or a 2 degree leade for Eley. While these differences may optimize performance potential, these don't guarantee ammo performance. That's always on the particular lot of ammo. At the same time, it should be noted that there are many chambers that have been shown to shoot a variety of good lots of match ammos very well. The bottom line is that a particular chamber doesn't make a rifle shoot inconsistent ammo well. Nothing does.
It's not possible to use a tuner to turn a bad lot of ammo into a good one. Tuners don't work that way.
This view would seem to imply that Lapua Midas + and X-Act won't shoot in your rifle. The observation you make suggests that you haven't tried enough different lots of the highest grades of Lapua.
If you've had any lots of Center X shoot well, there are lots of M+ and X-Act that will do even better. Why? Because except for the name on the packaging, the different varieties of Lapua CX, M+, and X-Act ammo are completely indistinguishable from one another. They are made on the same production line with the same bullets, brass, priming compound, and propellant. Without the name on the box, no one can tell one from another. Only Lapua knows why one lot is CX and another is M+. And shooting any of the Lapua .22LR match ammo won't necessarily reveal which is which.
As noted earlier, the price of the Lapua .22LR ammo or the name on the box doesn't determine how it performs. Some lots of each variety can perform well, but M+ usually gives a better chance of better performance because it usually has smaller extreme spreads and is produced with a better likelihood of other less conspicuous areas of consistency.
One of the key points in this thread is that ammo performance varies by lot. Take a look at the targets shown in posts #2 and #4. Those targets show how different lots of the same variety of ammo, CX in this case, can perform. Other grades of Lapua are no different. You can get a very good lot of M+; you can get an inconsistent lot of M+. This is why it's recommended to test different lots.
To reemphasize one more point that was made earlier, when ammo dealers don't have a variety of match ammos available, that often means that the best ones are gone. It's like the used car lot. When the lot has many cars to choose from, that's a good time to test drive before buying. When the lot is down to only a couple of used cars, there might be a good reason why they are still there.
No two barrels are the same, even barrels on the same make and model.
Here's a simple analogy. The barrel, or more importantly, the bore itself, can be thought of like a human finger or hand. Outwardly they tend to look alike, just as barrels do in general. On closer inspection there are some more obvious differences such as size, length, colour, nails, wrinkles, spots etc. Barrels vary by length, diameter, metallurgy, and crown.
Looking even more closely, fingerprints make each finger absolutely unique. A fingerprint may have characteristics are often shared with others, but each one is different. The same can be said of bores. Each one is different, even if it's from the same manufacturer and same model of firearm. Bores vary in diameter and consistency of diameter through their length. They also vary by rifling characteristics. Some rifling is smoother or rougher than others. Some rifling has sharper edges or is higher or shallower than others.
In short, no two barrels are exactly alike.
Regarding the observation of the kind of ammo that's often available to us, there's something to it. I suspect that the ammo makers, who probably make match ammo almost every single day of the year, have a good idea of what lots will shoot well long before it's tested in the ammo maker's test barrels. I find it improbable that the big three ammo makers -- Eley, Lapua, and RWS -- don't know where in the production run the good stuff is made. In other words, when Lapua, for example, runs its production line to produce X-Act, Midas +, and Center X, they probably know from their very considerable experience from making match ammo over many years at which point in the production process the best performing or most consistent ammo is being made.
If the ammo makers can know from past experience where in a production run the most consistent ammo is made, they can use that knowledge with regard to where that ammo is sent. If it's going to a relatively small market like Canada, it's conceivable that what gets here often doesn't include the very best lots of match ammo.
Of course, since the ammo makers don't publish how they grade their ammo or how it's distributed, it's not possible to confirm if any of the above is any more than speculation.
It also depends on the time of year/temp, especially in spring and fall here in SWO. If you start shooting at 9am (as CRPS does) and its only 0-5C outside by the time its noon it can be well over 20C. Some ammo can shoot crap groups at 0C but tight at 20C. ...and for shooting out to 200-300m your DOPE between 0C and 20C will be different just due to velocity causing a vertical spread let alone the ammo shooting decent or not in the warm or cold...
This has some very good observations.
Ammo MV does indeed increase as temperatures warm and it's very necessary in competition such as CRPS to account for that when shooting in conditions in which the ambient temperature changes significantly over the course of the competition. Fortunately, all the competitors who shoot over the same time period face the same problem, and those who combine accurate adjustments to account for changing MVs with good shooting will be less affected by the temperature changes.
But it's worth noting that it's not only when shooting over a significant change in temperature that shooters might wish to account for how temperature changes affect muzzle velocity. MV changes may also occur when temperature changes are less than dramatic. In fact MV may increase by as much as 10 fps on an otherwise "normally" warm day when temperatures rise from 70 deg. F to 79 deg. F, which is about 5 deg. C.
MV changes due to temperature changes may vary between makes of ammo (e.g. Eley vs Lapua) or indeed between different lots of the same variety of ammo. It may be possible to mitigate differences in MV as the temperature changes outdoors, but it's not clear how ammo will behave when it's been kept warm while the temperature of the barrel itself is cold or the temperature of the air itself.
How can shooters prepare for temperature changes that may affect different ammos differently? The answer is the same as always. Test different lots. Different lots may perform very differently in the same rifle. There are no short cuts. It's not possible to get accurate information from someone else's testing or rifle. Each rifle is different.
The bottom line is to test different lots. It's not the name on the box of ammo that's important. Different lots of the same variety can perform very differently. Know the behaviour of the ammo that's being used. It might be capable of producing good results with some of the rounds in the box, while the rest do poorly. Rimfire ammo can be like that, even the top tier varieties. Shooters need to know their ammo because no rifle can outshoot the ammo it's given.
I will disagree with the comments of shooting in NO wind. Wind is your friend. That is a gentle honest readable wind using flags.
Example, yesterday took the 30BR out to zero and test a recently repaired Leupold 45X. It had a loose front lens.
Conditions were so light i decided to not set a few flags up. I just read the heavy mirage. If there was a boil and i did not hold a bit low on the moth ball the shot went high.
You could have thermals causing grief with no wind. Wind can be more honest than none.
Now the 30 is not a 22 rimfire but wind effects bullets of all types. JMO. Little wind is better than no wind
Example, yesterday took the 30BR out to zero and test a recently repaired Leupold 45X. It had a loose front lens.
Conditions were so light i decided to not set a few flags up. I just read the heavy mirage. If there was a boil and i did not hold a bit low on the moth ball the shot went high.
You could have thermals causing grief with no wind. Wind can be more honest than none.
Now the 30 is not a 22 rimfire but wind effects bullets of all types. JMO. Little wind is better than no wind
Almost like in Golf, I would rather have a 6' putt with a predictable left to right 1/2 cup break then a dead straight putt... The putt with the break you can sink even if you miss hit almost the full width of the hole, if it has to go straight you can only miss hit by 1/2 the diameter of the hole either way. [bracketing]
But with bench rest shooting I would rather have a dead straight shot in dead wind...
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EVERY shooter in our 50m rimfire benchrest club (all of whom shoot high quality target/BR rifles and are capable on some days to shoot perfect scores with high X counts), experiences the crazy drop dead fliers that I mentioned earlier, using the mid-grade match ammo. Perfect scores in a match (50m) are ruined by one or two bad rounds (on average) in a box of 50, etc.
Since this happens in every match to everyone at some time or other, one day in the clubhouse I suggested that we change the 50m match rules (and it could also apply to 100m) to counteract the flier issue in our grades of ammo. (And note that we already have generous ring sizes in our score targets to reflect reality for the ammo and equipment that we can afford).
Suggested Rules Change: In a 25-round match, (we shoot 25 individual bulls) the shooter shoots 26 rounds, and can discard the lowest scoring hit. This means that one and only one bull can have 2 hits. e.g. you get the crazy flier that drops into the 9 or 8 or 7. You can take one extra shot on that same bull. You only get one of those discard options.
Rationale: That one discard shot is about the average frequency that we find for about 1 or 2 bad rounds per box, and therefore it would make the match more fair for everyone.
Well, I just about got laughed out of the clubhouse! "Can't do that" they said! Why not I asked? I argued that we all agree over and over again, year after year in all our clubhouse discussions, that a bad round or two per box is always ruining our good scores and determining winners and losers because of the bad ammo. I argued that discarding one hit from 26 has no bearing on the skills of your shooting for 25 rounds for score. You still have to shoot better than everyone else with the 25 to win the match. One discard option in no way alters the psychological skills part of the match. The pressure is still on the entire match.
Anyways I got nowhere in our club with the 26 rounds and 1 discard option.
And I did not get a good reason why (IMHO ) . I still think it is worth trying because it reduces the bad ammo random flier issue.
Thoughts and feedback welcome for the one discard and re-shoot option per match.
Since this happens in every match to everyone at some time or other, one day in the clubhouse I suggested that we change the 50m match rules (and it could also apply to 100m) to counteract the flier issue in our grades of ammo. (And note that we already have generous ring sizes in our score targets to reflect reality for the ammo and equipment that we can afford).
Suggested Rules Change: In a 25-round match, (we shoot 25 individual bulls) the shooter shoots 26 rounds, and can discard the lowest scoring hit. This means that one and only one bull can have 2 hits. e.g. you get the crazy flier that drops into the 9 or 8 or 7. You can take one extra shot on that same bull. You only get one of those discard options.
Rationale: That one discard shot is about the average frequency that we find for about 1 or 2 bad rounds per box, and therefore it would make the match more fair for everyone.
Well, I just about got laughed out of the clubhouse! "Can't do that" they said! Why not I asked? I argued that we all agree over and over again, year after year in all our clubhouse discussions, that a bad round or two per box is always ruining our good scores and determining winners and losers because of the bad ammo. I argued that discarding one hit from 26 has no bearing on the skills of your shooting for 25 rounds for score. You still have to shoot better than everyone else with the 25 to win the match. One discard option in no way alters the psychological skills part of the match. The pressure is still on the entire match.
Anyways I got nowhere in our club with the 26 rounds and 1 discard option.
And I did not get a good reason why (IMHO ) . I still think it is worth trying because it reduces the bad ammo random flier issue. Thoughts and feedback welcome for the one discard and re-shoot option per match.
The "Wind is your friend" mantra doesn't make any sense when it comes to shooting .22LR. It's doubtful anyone shoots better results with .22LR when it's windy than when it's calm. It can be tough enough shooting well at 100 yards without the wind.
It makes sense to shoot whenever possible when there is an absence of air movement between the shooter and target. Why? The wind can't be seen yet it can affect the flight of the .22LR bullet. Even with wind flags, it's not possible to account for all air movement. Of course, calm conditions don't always prevail over ranges and shooters who shoot in the wind, especially competitors who must shoot in all conditions, must learn to either read wind conditions.
Ironically, sometimes even in what seem like very calm conditions, undetected movement of air can be revealed by the POI on the target. The problem is the difficulty of recognizing even the slightest changes in wind. It can be very hard to tell when the air moves at a speed of only one mile per hour, a speed that barely causes chimney smoke to drift. But at 100 yards, a 1 mph change in crosswind, which can be hard to detect without experience and very good flags, can move the .22LR bullet by about .37". For longer range shooters, it just gets worse.
Wind flags can help, but they may not be able to record everything that affects the bullet. Even at 50 yards, serious .22LR benchrest shooters usually use at least three wind flags, often more, as well as anemometers. More flags should be used at 100 yards, and read appropriately, to begin to account for the effect of wind. On ranges where winds change directions frequently, it can be quite a challenge to master, if in such conditions it's ever possible.
The best way to see how .22LR match ammo performs, or the rifle shooting it, is to shoot when wind is not an issue. Absolute calm is much friendlier than wind. This is why the match ammo makers test their ammo in test tunnels. Lapua, for example has two such tunnels at facilities south of the border for shooters to lot test ammo in rifles. There's an Eley facility in Okotoks. In none of these facilities do they deliberately introduce air movement in the testing tunnel to improve results. Rather the opposite is true. They want no air movement.
Anyone looking to achieve the most consistent and accurate results with .22LR is best served by shooting in conditions that are calm, without air movement. The wind is not your friend. At the same time, when you've mastered reading conditions and using wind flags, it doesn't need to be an enemy.
EVERY shooter in our 50m rimfire benchrest club (all of whom shoot high quality target/BR rifles and are capable on some days to shoot perfect scores with high X counts), experiences the crazy drop dead fliers that I mentioned earlier, using the mid-grade match ammo. Perfect scores in a match (50m) are ruined by one or two bad rounds (on average) in a box of 50, etc.
Since this happens in every match to everyone at some time or other, one day in the clubhouse I suggested that we change the 50m match rules (and it could also apply to 100m) to counteract the flier issue in our grades of ammo. (And note that we already have generous ring sizes in our score targets to reflect reality for the ammo and equipment that we can afford).
Suggested Rules Change: In a 25-round match, (we shoot 25 individual bulls) the shooter shoots 26 rounds, and can discard the lowest scoring hit. This means that one and only one bull can have 2 hits. e.g. you get the crazy flier that drops into the 9 or 8 or 7. You can take one extra shot on that same bull. You only get one of those discard options.
Rationale: That one discard shot is about the average frequency that we find for about 1 or 2 bad rounds per box, and therefore it would make the match more fair for everyone.
Well, I just about got laughed out of the clubhouse! "Can't do that" they said! Why not I asked? I argued that we all agree over and over again, year after year in all our clubhouse discussions, that a bad round or two per box is always ruining our good scores and determining winners and losers because of the bad ammo. I argued that discarding one hit from 26 has no bearing on the skills of your shooting for 25 rounds for score. You still have to shoot better than everyone else with the 25 to win the match. One discard option in no way alters the psychological skills part of the match. The pressure is still on the entire match.
Anyways I got nowhere in our club with the 26 rounds and 1 discard option.
Thoughts and feedback welcome for the one discard and re-shoot option per match.
I can empathize with your frustration and applaud an effort at coming up with a solution, even if it was rejected by your club mates.
The problem is not one of the grade of ammo. To use Lapua as an example, those errant shots are possible, that is can occur, with Center X, with Midas +, and with X-Act (at least with the one lot with which I've had experience). To illustrate, the most reliable lot I've every had is one that was made in 2020. It shoots few unexpected or errant shots, fewer than any lot of M+ I've shot.
The problem is that in Canada the very consistent lots always seem few and far between. Put another way, the very good lots of Lapua don't seem to be as common in Canada as those that are less consistent. This means that everyone is at the same disadvantage unless they can lot test a greater number of lots than usually make it to a dealer.
When I last bought ammo almost a year ago, the dealer received only five different lots of Center X and only two of Midas +. That's not a lot from which to choose. At the Lapua testing facilities, experienced shooters report that they are disappointed and dissatisfied if the testing facility doesn't have at least ten different lots to test. When a shooter in Canada finds a good lot he should consider himself very fortunate.
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Grauhanen, so you find a lot that works in basically no wind, the question is how does it shoot in the wind? Is it able to buck the wind?
Centerfire or rimfire the wind effects the bullets trajectory
Granted with a rimfire more than Centerfire. I only shoot rimfire in score matches out to 50M. Those of us that shoot that test in the wind. We want something that will shoot in the wind. Where we shoot it is seldom calm.
In the Centerfire BR, you will find a condition that just works with a tuned rifle. Kind of like a wind from the right does not push a bullet as much as a wind from the left. The 2 ranges I frequent, 1 I prefer a left to right over right to left. I trust it at that range. The other is the opposite.
Mitigating fliers with rimfire I think comes down to weighing and segregating as well as rim thickness. It is not a guarantee but at least this way you have controlled all you can with a rimfire. Again JMO.
Calvin
Centerfire or rimfire the wind effects the bullets trajectory
Granted with a rimfire more than Centerfire. I only shoot rimfire in score matches out to 50M. Those of us that shoot that test in the wind. We want something that will shoot in the wind. Where we shoot it is seldom calm.
In the Centerfire BR, you will find a condition that just works with a tuned rifle. Kind of like a wind from the right does not push a bullet as much as a wind from the left. The 2 ranges I frequent, 1 I prefer a left to right over right to left. I trust it at that range. The other is the opposite.
Mitigating fliers with rimfire I think comes down to weighing and segregating as well as rim thickness. It is not a guarantee but at least this way you have controlled all you can with a rimfire. Again JMO.
Calvin
There's a lot of apparent mystery when it comes to .22LR. Some of it is the consequence of repeated misinformation.
There are some custom barrels with certain rifling that are reported or said to perform better in the wind. Shilen ratchet barrels come to mind, but I may be mistaken.
Determining how much a certain rifling configuration may reduce wind drift is unclear and can only be reasonably estimated by a shooter who's very skillful reading the conditions with wind flags. Ultimately, serious benchrest shooters rely primarily on wind flag interpretation to account for the influence of the wind.
As for whether the design of the ammo may plays a significant role, round nose lead bullets such as those on Lapua CX, M+, and X-Act are all the same. They don't differ from lot to lot or round to round except by accident. As a result, all Lapua bullets should all respond similarly in the wind if MV is constant. Eley EPS bullets have a different nose shape, but there's no published information suggesting these bullets are "better" in the wind than those of Lapua or RWS.
In other words, there's nothing in the design of one manufacture's round over that of another that offers a guarantee that it will shoot better than another.
The velocity of the bullet has a predictable effect on how it behaves in wind. The slower the .22LR match bullet, the less it will drift with the wind. But the big difference maker is probably the influence of changes in wind strength between shots. A change of only 2 mph crosswind between shots, which can be hard to notice, can make a difference between two round of .2" at 50 yards. At 100 yards it's about a .75" difference.
The amount of drift caused by a crosswind at 50 yards is the same, regardless whether the crosswind is from the left or the right. When it's from left to right, it will push a bullet to the right and down. From right to left, the wind pushes the bullet left and up.
Regarding sorting rimfire ammo by either weight and/or rim thickness, it's correct that it's not a guarantee for anything other than time probably wasted. Many shooters have reported some or occasional improvement by sorting inexpensive non-match ammo, but few, if any, competitive BR shooters sort using these methods or even by base-to-ogive length.
The best way to increase the chances of shooting consistently performing ammo, whether in competition or not, is to test as many lots of good match ammo as possible. They don't all shoot the same. There are no short cuts to getting consistent ammo.
There are some custom barrels with certain rifling that are reported or said to perform better in the wind. Shilen ratchet barrels come to mind, but I may be mistaken.
Determining how much a certain rifling configuration may reduce wind drift is unclear and can only be reasonably estimated by a shooter who's very skillful reading the conditions with wind flags. Ultimately, serious benchrest shooters rely primarily on wind flag interpretation to account for the influence of the wind.
As for whether the design of the ammo may plays a significant role, round nose lead bullets such as those on Lapua CX, M+, and X-Act are all the same. They don't differ from lot to lot or round to round except by accident. As a result, all Lapua bullets should all respond similarly in the wind if MV is constant. Eley EPS bullets have a different nose shape, but there's no published information suggesting these bullets are "better" in the wind than those of Lapua or RWS.
In other words, there's nothing in the design of one manufacture's round over that of another that offers a guarantee that it will shoot better than another.
The velocity of the bullet has a predictable effect on how it behaves in wind. The slower the .22LR match bullet, the less it will drift with the wind. But the big difference maker is probably the influence of changes in wind strength between shots. A change of only 2 mph crosswind between shots, which can be hard to notice, can make a difference between two round of .2" at 50 yards. At 100 yards it's about a .75" difference.
The amount of drift caused by a crosswind at 50 yards is the same, regardless whether the crosswind is from the left or the right. When it's from left to right, it will push a bullet to the right and down. From right to left, the wind pushes the bullet left and up.
Regarding sorting rimfire ammo by either weight and/or rim thickness, it's correct that it's not a guarantee for anything other than time probably wasted. Many shooters have reported some or occasional improvement by sorting inexpensive non-match ammo, but few, if any, competitive BR shooters sort using these methods or even by base-to-ogive length.
The best way to increase the chances of shooting consistently performing ammo, whether in competition or not, is to test as many lots of good match ammo as possible. They don't all shoot the same. There are no short cuts to getting consistent ammo.
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EVERY shooter in our 50m rimfire benchrest club (all of whom shoot high quality target/BR rifles and are capable on some days to shoot perfect scores with high X counts), experiences the crazy drop dead fliers that I mentioned earlier, using the mid-grade match ammo. Perfect scores in a match (50m) are ruined by one or two bad rounds (on average) in a box of 50, etc.
Since this happens in every match to everyone at some time or other, one day in the clubhouse I suggested that we change the 50m match rules (and it could also apply to 100m) to counteract the flier issue in our grades of ammo. (And note that we already have generous ring sizes in our score targets to reflect reality for the ammo and equipment that we can afford).
Suggested Rules Change: In a 25-round match, (we shoot 25 individual bulls) the shooter shoots 26 rounds, and can discard the lowest scoring hit. This means that one and only one bull can have 2 hits. e.g. you get the crazy flier that drops into the 9 or 8 or 7. You can take one extra shot on that same bull. You only get one of those discard options.
Rationale: That one discard shot is about the average frequency that we find for about 1 or 2 bad rounds per box, and therefore it would make the match more fair for everyone.
Well, I just about got laughed out of the clubhouse! "Can't do that" they said! Why not I asked? I argued that we all agree over and over again, year after year in all our clubhouse discussions, that a bad round or two per box is always ruining our good scores and determining winners and losers because of the bad ammo. I argued that discarding one hit from 26 has no bearing on the skills of your shooting for 25 rounds for score. You still have to shoot better than everyone else with the 25 to win the match. One discard option in no way alters the psychological skills part of the match. The pressure is still on the entire match.
Anyways I got nowhere in our club with the 26 rounds and 1 discard option.
Thoughts and feedback welcome for the one discard and re-shoot option per match.
Well, there are two (minor) counter-arguments
The annoying one is that you no longer perfectly get 2 matches out of a 50 round box of ammo. (Admittedly, you also wouldn't if you shoot fouling shots and sighters before the match).
The more rules-enforcement question is if everyone gets the 1 re-shoot, or if only 'crazy' flyers qualify. If the latter, you'll need to agree on what exactly counts as a 'crazy' flyer that justifies the re-shoot.
They're both fairly minor concerns, at least next to people hating change. That's the hard one.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
They shoot 25 for score so there is plenty of rounds for fouling, sighters. In golf, it is called a mulligan. The player declares a reshoot whenever they feel the need.... one do over and that's it. You don't typically, get to go to the end then say, 'by the way'... you call the mulligan as it happens.
In F class, some matches will sell challenge tokens so a shooter 'spends' to get a rescore. more often, they loose but it gives them the option to challenge. Most matches offer like 2 challenge tokens as no one wants a shooter to challenge every point cause they have the money to buy tokens.
Given how vulernable rimfire ammo is to flyers, I like the idea of a mulligan... but keep it to 1 or at most 2 shots. As long as all shooters have the same options, it is a level playing field. I totally understand being on a solid run then getting a WTF, causing you to plummet in the leaderboard. Declare the mulligan, reshoot, whatever that shot is, it stands and you move on.
Not sure why shooters would have resistance to this concept... sooner or later, their hummer lot of ammo is going to run out
Jerry
