Well, that sounds a lot like a gun fit issue. There is gun quality and gun fit. Two very different things. I can help you discern gun quality. I can’t do anything about gun fit. Except recommend you try a bunch of different guns until you find one you cam shoot. Then get the dimensions.
No shotgun
- Thread starter Rob
- Start date
Well, that sounds a lot like a gun fit issue. There is gun quality and gun fit. Two very different things. I can help you discern gun quality. I can’t do anything about gun fit. Except recommend you try a bunch of different guns until you find one you cam shoot. Then get the dimensions.
For over/unders I'd say a Browning Citori Superlight Feather 20 gauge, with 26 barrels and straight English stock.
Friend has one and it's a quick little gun. Gotta watch what you feed it though, it can be a kicker.
Single trigger here.
And if one of these why not compare to a vintage 20bore Superposed o'u?
Also I like the Merkel OU's and you often see them in 16g or 12g for $1000-$2000 bucks.
I think 20's a rare.
Sometimes some real nice condition ones come available.
They shoulder and point well and look to be well made.
I'm not learned in prewar/post war differences in these however.
Double triggers available I think.
Also similar looking Austrian Ferlach versions come up from time to time.
Some of the nice European SxS doubles are nice, the high grade Sauer and Daly guns sure are pretty and man would I like one but where to find one, and how much you gotta pay?!
I've seen some well priced 20 bore Belgian boxlocks from time to time that are reasonably priced, ~$1000, and I bet they'd fit the criteria.
There are the Browning SxS boxlocks and the earlier Beretta SxS's but they have often felt a bit bulkier/heavier to me.
At the end of it all you can't go wrong with a classic English SxS boxlock for $1000-$2000.
It will have all of the handling attributes and quality of craftsmanship that you would appreciate for an upland gun.
Some more so than others, but a straight-up Webley and Scott can have a great feel and be an excellent shooter.
But like the guys say, fit is important, everything, and hard to determine without the gun in hand.
Plus with these guns especially you have the other important checks to be aware of and consider, which pertain mostly to barrel condition and current proof.
If you went American I've seen some nice Parker VH 20 and 16's, and some Fox Sterlingworth 20's.
I'd say the 20's especially will have the handling characteristics you're after, they're a good size and have a nice feel, if you can find one in good condition for a good price.
Friend has one and it's a quick little gun. Gotta watch what you feed it though, it can be a kicker.
Single trigger here.
And if one of these why not compare to a vintage 20bore Superposed o'u?
Also I like the Merkel OU's and you often see them in 16g or 12g for $1000-$2000 bucks.
I think 20's a rare.
Sometimes some real nice condition ones come available.
They shoulder and point well and look to be well made.
I'm not learned in prewar/post war differences in these however.
Double triggers available I think.
Also similar looking Austrian Ferlach versions come up from time to time.
Some of the nice European SxS doubles are nice, the high grade Sauer and Daly guns sure are pretty and man would I like one but where to find one, and how much you gotta pay?!
I've seen some well priced 20 bore Belgian boxlocks from time to time that are reasonably priced, ~$1000, and I bet they'd fit the criteria.
There are the Browning SxS boxlocks and the earlier Beretta SxS's but they have often felt a bit bulkier/heavier to me.
At the end of it all you can't go wrong with a classic English SxS boxlock for $1000-$2000.
It will have all of the handling attributes and quality of craftsmanship that you would appreciate for an upland gun.
Some more so than others, but a straight-up Webley and Scott can have a great feel and be an excellent shooter.
But like the guys say, fit is important, everything, and hard to determine without the gun in hand.
Plus with these guns especially you have the other important checks to be aware of and consider, which pertain mostly to barrel condition and current proof.
If you went American I've seen some nice Parker VH 20 and 16's, and some Fox Sterlingworth 20's.
I'd say the 20's especially will have the handling characteristics you're after, they're a good size and have a nice feel, if you can find one in good condition for a good price.
- Location
- Saskatchewan
Rob, you've had lots of good advice already. Since we know you like good quality European and British firearms, and used, and like doubles, we've narrowed things down a bit. And having competed with you on a few auctions, I know we like similar rifles anyway. So here's some upland game shotguns that I like and recommend.
Try to determine if you would be happy with a 12 gauge. Good used ones are much more available than smaller gauges, ammo is universally available too in loads as light or as heavy as one could want. The 12 ga. guns are just a bit more bulky and heavy than necessary or desirable in the uplands. I personally find most British guns overpriced for our market. It's like the market for pre-64 Winchesters. OK, but, lots of other guys like them and drive up the price and they're not really that special.
If you don't mind ordering ammunition by the flat, a 16 gauge is well worth consideration. It is the "queen of the uplands" when chambered in properly proportioned small frame double guns. High quality used European 16 ga guns are more commonly offered for sale than one might think, because the gauge is seen somewhat as an anachronism now.
I shoot three 16 ga guns currently, my favourite is a beautiful classic double built by an unknown Italian craftsman with German steel barrels, double triggers and hammers. Just 6 lbs and very lively and deadly in the uplands. I think you'd like it.
I also shoot a Browning Citori White Lightning. ( tough, strong, steel shot capable, and built on a 20 ga frame) which has been my reliable go-to gun for a few decades. They're still made new.
And I shoot a very well made and artistic Merkel 211E/251E. The Merkel might just be the sort of gun you'd like - Well made, proportioned properly, lively handling, double triggers, and sometimes can be found like mine with a second set of barrels in 16/7x57R so that you can exercise your rifle shooting enthusiasms and shoot larger game with the same gun. There are a couple of these two barrel sets for sale in Canada at the moment.
You'd need to get the chokes on older doubles opened up by a competent gunsmith. That would add a hundred $ or two to the purchase price but is necessary and worth it - since nearly all those old doubles were choked very tightly and full chokes are unsuitable for quick shots at grouse in the alder thickets.
The most practical new gun choice is of course a 20 gauge. Lots of choices in maker and model, versatile, upland bird capable, and ammo is readily available. There is a silly fashion trend in new guns that promotes very short barrels. Please avoid that temptation. You'd be sacrificing shoot ability for "handiness" . No good wingshot would be found in the uplands with a double gun that has barrels shorter than 26", and even 30" barrels are no handicap. There is a good reason 28" barrels have been the standard length for upland bird double guns for generations. They serve the purpose well.
Try to determine if you would be happy with a 12 gauge. Good used ones are much more available than smaller gauges, ammo is universally available too in loads as light or as heavy as one could want. The 12 ga. guns are just a bit more bulky and heavy than necessary or desirable in the uplands. I personally find most British guns overpriced for our market. It's like the market for pre-64 Winchesters. OK, but, lots of other guys like them and drive up the price and they're not really that special.
If you don't mind ordering ammunition by the flat, a 16 gauge is well worth consideration. It is the "queen of the uplands" when chambered in properly proportioned small frame double guns. High quality used European 16 ga guns are more commonly offered for sale than one might think, because the gauge is seen somewhat as an anachronism now.
I shoot three 16 ga guns currently, my favourite is a beautiful classic double built by an unknown Italian craftsman with German steel barrels, double triggers and hammers. Just 6 lbs and very lively and deadly in the uplands. I think you'd like it.
I also shoot a Browning Citori White Lightning. ( tough, strong, steel shot capable, and built on a 20 ga frame) which has been my reliable go-to gun for a few decades. They're still made new.
And I shoot a very well made and artistic Merkel 211E/251E. The Merkel might just be the sort of gun you'd like - Well made, proportioned properly, lively handling, double triggers, and sometimes can be found like mine with a second set of barrels in 16/7x57R so that you can exercise your rifle shooting enthusiasms and shoot larger game with the same gun. There are a couple of these two barrel sets for sale in Canada at the moment.
You'd need to get the chokes on older doubles opened up by a competent gunsmith. That would add a hundred $ or two to the purchase price but is necessary and worth it - since nearly all those old doubles were choked very tightly and full chokes are unsuitable for quick shots at grouse in the alder thickets.
The most practical new gun choice is of course a 20 gauge. Lots of choices in maker and model, versatile, upland bird capable, and ammo is readily available. There is a silly fashion trend in new guns that promotes very short barrels. Please avoid that temptation. You'd be sacrificing shoot ability for "handiness" . No good wingshot would be found in the uplands with a double gun that has barrels shorter than 26", and even 30" barrels are no handicap. There is a good reason 28" barrels have been the standard length for upland bird double guns for generations. They serve the purpose well.
Look for a used old-style Winchester 101 with SKEET or IC/Mod chokes in either 12 or 20 ga. The 20 ga field guns are all 3" chambers for versatility but not sure of the skeet.. They don't wear out and can be had at a reasonable price. Just watch the EE Forum as they come up several times a year.
If you want it all, consider a Savage Fox A Grade in 20 gauge. They’re stocked with a straight-gripped, checkered English stock and a splinter forend (Anson push rod release). They are built on a 20 ga color case-hardened frame, employ gold washed double triggers, and come with 28” blued barrels. The barrels are equipped with screw-in chokes and the gun comes with a full set of 5, a wrench, and a polymer case.
These guns are light and lively and point like a magic wand. Despite being branded as a Fox and having a minor cosmetic change to mimic the Fox look, they are actually a mechanical duplicate of the CSMC RBL (Round Box Lock). They are built to stand the test of time and they have all the desirable aesthetic features. I have been shooting one for the past two seasons and, despite having dozens of alternatives, I just can’t bring myself to put it down (see image above). This past season, I also bought a Rizzini BR110 20 ga O/U. Although it, too, checks all the boxes, it won’t see much use now that I’ve compared it to the Savage Fox under actual hunting conditions.
There are two of these currently offered for sale in Canada. One I saw for sale by a dealer on this site for $4K, and one I saw on GP for sale by an individual for $4400. The one on GP appears to have the nicest walnut.
In conversation with my hunting partner of 30+ years last week, I commented that in 2 years I can’t remember ever missing a shot with this gun. He agreed, he couldn’t either. These guns are still available from CSMC for $5K USD, although only in 12 ga as far as I can see.
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You never said that, you said you had sxs before. I like them, but the best ones I have had where o/u 's
I used as older 101 Winchester around the yard for years.
I also had a very nice 2 barrel Spanish built sheet gun that was a joy to shoot. Hi end side lock over / under, Wish I had some pictures of that one. 100% engraved, #5+ wood, cased set.
The one gun I hated as it beat me up , because of fit I guess was a Ithaca 20 ga O/U made by SKB .
Never had a 12g that bothered me, mind you I am not into heavy mag loads. usally pigeons or magpies.
A semi auto will usally be softer shooting , used a Franchi 12 semi that worked very good , and it cost 250.oo used, many yrs ago.
Do yourself a favor and find a local club that does skeet or sporting clays or trap. There will be racks of guns and lots of people to talk to. Get friendly and you can probably handle a few and see what you like and don’t like. Browning Citori and Beretta 686 and the likes come to mind from most shooters I know. You need something that fits you so I really can’t say what you should get. Best thing is to buy it in person. I have bought a few shotguns that just don’t fit that I have sold off. I am not a good shooter but own a few guns that feel just right though. Also make sure you find a gun you can get spare parts for since everything breaks eventually.
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Falconflyer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
If money is not a major concern look into project upland from RFM
They make sxs and ou guns made to order. Get exactly what you want. If you're serious about owning only 1 gun there's nothing better than getting exactly what you want
They make sxs and ou guns made to order. Get exactly what you want. If you're serious about owning only 1 gun there's nothing better than getting exactly what you want
Licensed to kill
CGN Regular
- Location
- Peace Country Alberta
There is a CZ G2 bobwhite in 12ga on EE right now, $850.
the spank
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Planet Earth Wearing My Tinfoil Hat
Yes he did...said he shot a sxs and said he never owned or shot an o/u so in my mind he was looking in the o/u direction.
the spank
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Planet Earth Wearing My Tinfoil Hat
There is a nice Browning Superposed 20 in the EE. That would make a superb o/u for upland and small game. You cannot beat the quality of a Superposed.
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...-lightning-grade-1-o-u.2497834/#post-20621516
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...-lightning-grade-1-o-u.2497834/#post-20621516
