No1 mag in a No4?
- Thread starter gerard488
- Start date
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- Newmarket,Ontario
marked for interest
somewhat similar to what I asked here also
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1102283-1942-No-1-mkIII-Magazine-question
somewhat similar to what I asked here also
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1102283-1942-No-1-mkIII-Magazine-question
infideleggwelder
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
the No 1 mag will fit and stay in a No4. No1 has an extra lug, if you will, and the No4 mag has 1. it will fit but wont lock in properly. it might even stay in and feed rounds. then fall out in the woods and be lost forever….
not that that has happened to me….
not that that has happened to me….
"Fit" and "Feed" are two separate issues. The Mk III* mag might very well fit and seem like it locks in, but you'll run into feed problems.
I have a No4 and a BSA Mk III at the moment (the No4 is going back to the it's owner when he gets back from overseas), and have played around with them a bit. Your mileage may vary.
I have a No4 and a BSA Mk III at the moment (the No4 is going back to the it's owner when he gets back from overseas), and have played around with them a bit. Your mileage may vary.
I have a No1 MkIII, No5Mk1 and a No4 Mk1. This is what I found:
1. The No1 mag does not fully seat and lock properly in the No 4 and No 5
2. The No4 mag seats, locks and feeds properly in the No1 and No5
3. The No5 mag seats, locks and feeds properly in the No4 but won't seat in the No1, which surprised me to no end since the No4 and No5 are essentally the same design.
So there you have it, at least for the rifles I own.
1. The No1 mag does not fully seat and lock properly in the No 4 and No 5
2. The No4 mag seats, locks and feeds properly in the No1 and No5
3. The No5 mag seats, locks and feeds properly in the No4 but won't seat in the No1, which surprised me to no end since the No4 and No5 are essentally the same design.
So there you have it, at least for the rifles I own.
If you take a No1 mag & put it in another No1 rifle, it may or may not fit or feed properly.
If you take a No4 mag & put it in another No4 rifle, it may or may not fit or feed properly.
If you take a No5 mag & put it in another No5 rifle, it may or may not fit or feed properly.
If you take a No1 mag & put it in a No4 rifle, it may or may not fit or feed properly.
If you take a No1 mag & put it in a No5 rifle, it may or may not fit or feed properly.
If you take a No4 mag & put it in a No1 rifle, it may or may not fit or feed properly.
If you take a No4 mag & put it in a No5 rifle, it may or may not fit or feed properly.
If you take a No5 mag & put it in a No1 rifle, it may or may not fit or feed properly.
If you take a No5 mag & put it in a No4 rifle, it may or may not fit or feed properly.
If you take an early type 1, 2 or 3 for the SMLE & try & fit it to anything other than a SMLE or No1 rifle such as a LongLee, No4, No5 etc it will get jammed in there due to the rotating RH feed lip as only the SMLE (& CLLE) have clearance cut into the triggerguard & mag well.
If you take a No4 mag & put it in another No4 rifle, it may or may not fit or feed properly.
If you take a No5 mag & put it in another No5 rifle, it may or may not fit or feed properly.
If you take a No1 mag & put it in a No4 rifle, it may or may not fit or feed properly.
If you take a No1 mag & put it in a No5 rifle, it may or may not fit or feed properly.
If you take a No4 mag & put it in a No1 rifle, it may or may not fit or feed properly.
If you take a No4 mag & put it in a No5 rifle, it may or may not fit or feed properly.
If you take a No5 mag & put it in a No1 rifle, it may or may not fit or feed properly.
If you take a No5 mag & put it in a No4 rifle, it may or may not fit or feed properly.
If you take an early type 1, 2 or 3 for the SMLE & try & fit it to anything other than a SMLE or No1 rifle such as a LongLee, No4, No5 etc it will get jammed in there due to the rotating RH feed lip as only the SMLE (& CLLE) have clearance cut into the triggerguard & mag well.
They are DIFFERENT RIFLES, so why should the parts interchange?
I can't get Garand clips to work in an M-1 Carbine either.... and they look pretty similar, too.
Magazines for the Number 1 Rifle (SMLE) were individually hand-made and fitted to a particular rifle. They then STAYED with that rifle.
By the time the Number 4 was developed, more than 30 years later, deep-drawing of Steel had come a long way and it was now possible to deep-draw IDENTICAL Magazines for the new rifle.
The two Magazines were NEVER designed to interchange. If they DO, it is entirely accidental.
That said, folks should take 5THBATT's post to heart! Sounds like it is coming from EXPERIENCE!
I can't get Garand clips to work in an M-1 Carbine either.... and they look pretty similar, too.
Magazines for the Number 1 Rifle (SMLE) were individually hand-made and fitted to a particular rifle. They then STAYED with that rifle.
By the time the Number 4 was developed, more than 30 years later, deep-drawing of Steel had come a long way and it was now possible to deep-draw IDENTICAL Magazines for the new rifle.
The two Magazines were NEVER designed to interchange. If they DO, it is entirely accidental.
That said, folks should take 5THBATT's post to heart! Sounds like it is coming from EXPERIENCE!
Somehow I always get the impression that British metal working technology lagged way behind the rest of the world and not just here.
Brits even had their own screw threads. Grizz
^ The industrial revolution started in Britain so...No.
Coyote Ugly
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
The first industrial product made entirely by machine-tools and with 100%-interchangeable parts requiring NO hand-fitting was......
.....the ENFIELD Rifled-musket, calibre .577", Pattern of 1858. It was the result of tightening-up the manufacturing standards on the existing Pattern of 1853 rifle and the supervision and tightening-up was done at Enfield under the supervision of Sir Joseph Whitworth.
Enfield Threads are not "weird": they were the FIRST completely-standardised machine-made threads in the world. This makes all the OTHER threads "weird" in comparison! Whitworth later used them as the basis for his IMPROVED design of threads which bear his name to this day. Whitworth threads are a 55-degree type with ROUNDED tops and bottoms; they are MUCH less prone to shearing and have considerably better strength than the American sharp-bottom 60-degree threads in which the sharp bottoms present ready avenues for breaking, leaving half of the bolt stuck in the hole. America persisted with development of the sharp threads, now called American Coarse and American Fine, because they could not mass-produce accurate tooling for cutting the superior Whitworth thread system.
Hall rifles and Colt pistols were produced largely by machine BUT required hand-fitting during assembly.
There are TWO ways to make a completely-interchangeable product. One way is to make everything sloppy enough that the parts can interchange. The OTHER way is to tighten up the tolerances all along the line so that when the parts are made, they MUST fit perfectly. The difference is readily apparent in the finished product: my M1911A1 .45 RATTLES if I shake it, my LUGERS DO NOT, NOR do my ENFIELDS and WEBLEYS.
.....the ENFIELD Rifled-musket, calibre .577", Pattern of 1858. It was the result of tightening-up the manufacturing standards on the existing Pattern of 1853 rifle and the supervision and tightening-up was done at Enfield under the supervision of Sir Joseph Whitworth.
Enfield Threads are not "weird": they were the FIRST completely-standardised machine-made threads in the world. This makes all the OTHER threads "weird" in comparison! Whitworth later used them as the basis for his IMPROVED design of threads which bear his name to this day. Whitworth threads are a 55-degree type with ROUNDED tops and bottoms; they are MUCH less prone to shearing and have considerably better strength than the American sharp-bottom 60-degree threads in which the sharp bottoms present ready avenues for breaking, leaving half of the bolt stuck in the hole. America persisted with development of the sharp threads, now called American Coarse and American Fine, because they could not mass-produce accurate tooling for cutting the superior Whitworth thread system.
Hall rifles and Colt pistols were produced largely by machine BUT required hand-fitting during assembly.
There are TWO ways to make a completely-interchangeable product. One way is to make everything sloppy enough that the parts can interchange. The OTHER way is to tighten up the tolerances all along the line so that when the parts are made, they MUST fit perfectly. The difference is readily apparent in the finished product: my M1911A1 .45 RATTLES if I shake it, my LUGERS DO NOT, NOR do my ENFIELDS and WEBLEYS.
Thats it Smellie, while the different magazines were never designed to interchange, due to their similarity some do readily while others do not but you can get the same result from magazines from the same model.
As for experience, 30 odd years of collecting rifles that are quite commonly found around NZ, some fitted with the wrong magazines (that still function fine) & then trying to refit the correct magazine to them has told me a lot about the interchangeability & in the early days of my collecting i fitted a magazine from a Mk1 SMLE into a Mk1 MLE, it went in but it was a complete B.....d to get back out, i did succeed but not without causing some damage first.
Type 1 & type 3 SMLE mags
Mk1 SMLE Mag well you will find the same clearence cut on MkIII SMLE.
MLE (LongLee) Mag well
Some do some don't
And there is your answer from the land of the LONG WHITE CLOUD thanks POPS
And there is your answer from the land of the LONG WHITE CLOUD thanks POPS
Bob Dylan for sure. I can hear him singing it in my head.
